Scary Parallels: Hayward/Prince Favors/Howard

babyjax13 · Post #1 » by **babyjax13** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:08 pm

Gordon Hayward Per 36: 11p 4r 2a 46/43/70
Tayshaun Prince Per 36: 11p 4r 2a 45/43/65
Why? Prince and Hayward are both very similar in what they do. They’re long, athletic forwards that can initiate the offense, play great defense and hit three point shots. Hayward is a more natural ball-handler, while Prince is better in the post. I think that Gordon has the potential to surpass Prince, he is a bit more versatile and has a lot more options to score. Hayward also has the mobility and skill to play shooting guard, something Prince does not have.

Derrick Favors Per 36: 12p 10r 1a 1s 2b 51/59
Dwight Howard Per 36: 13p 11r 1a 1s 2b 52/67 EDIT (Per game 12 10 etc.)
Why? Again, similar players. Howard is a bit bigger, and is obviously the best center today, but flash back to his rookie year and he was extremely raw (especially on offense), fouled at a high rate and didn’t do much on offense outside of five feet from the bucket. Favors is pretty similar, he’s not the athletic freak Howard is (although he is extremely gifted) but he also has the ability to diversify his offensive game beyond Howards (but he won’t be as dominating in the low-post). My expectations are a player that averages 17-19ppg and 12-14rpg with elite defense. Not to bad….

Jeremy Evans Per 36: 14p 7r 2a 1s 1b 65/71
Serge Ibaka Per 36: 13p 11r .4a 1s 3b 54/63
Why? It is hard to find an apt comparison for Evans, he is extremely athletic, just like Ibaka, and his offense is mostly off of dunks. They both run the break great, but Serge is a better rebounder and shot-blocker. With 10-15 pounds on his frame, Evans could be a great complimentary player.

It is nice to look at our rookies and compare them to what have become fairly valuable players in the NBA, but it is entirely different to make the assumption that they will actually make the jump to being “those kinds of players.” I really do think that Favors has the potential to be an all-star. A superstar? Borderline, but yes – certainly not on the level of Howard, but a lot better than Boozer was. And Gordon? I see him as a borderline all-star player just like Prince; he might make it on the coaches ballot, but he won’t be good enough to get voted in. But do we really care? No. Evans isn’t Ibaka though, that much is clear, but he will be a great role-player to have on the team.

J_Ray · Post #2 » by **J_Ray** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 4:26 am

Jeremy Evans being compared to Serge Ibaka is kind of silly. Ibaka is much longer and younger than Evans.

carrottop12 · Post #3 » by **carrottop12** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:57 pm

I'd love to see Evans turn into our starting sf of the future if hay is indeed going to be our two guard. He certainly needs to add weight and get his jumper and ball handling in order bit he's a hard worker. At the very least he can be a valuable 2nd or 3rd guy off the bench. I also think hayward's ceiling is higher than prince since he's a much better ball handler and has a better frame. I'd take Dwight version 2.0

babyjax13 · Post #4 » by **babyjax13** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 3:22 pm

J_Ray wrote:Jeremy Evans being compared to Serge Ibaka is kind of silly. Ibaka is much longer and younger than Evans.

Evans isn’t Ibaka though, that much is clear, but he will be a great role-player to have on the team.

Can't find his measurements, but Jeremy's wingspan and standing reach are prabably similar, he's freakish (like AK). I would like him to develop into a SF/PF like Andrei as well, but he just doesn't have the ball handling skills.

retiredcoach · Post #5 » by **retiredcoach** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 6:17 pm

Hayward should primarily play the SG position. It gives him more scoring options, and it allows him to be a primary for running the offense through him. When that happens he'll create more scoring opportunities for other players. Fans almost always look only at assists, which is fine, but really good players create indirectly by creating gaps so ball movement can find the open guy.

Next year the Jazz will finish scoring opportunities better which means more assists for Hayward. Corbin is considering this option, and I think he'll start training camp going in this direction. If he does, I think fans will see two things. The Jazz's over offense points on the road will go from 97.9 to 99.9 and at home from 101.0 to 103.5. In addition, I think the Jazz's overall defensive points allowed per game will go from 101.3 down to 99.8. Those changes will add 10 plus wins to the season.

My guess is Corbin will run this during the preseason, if there is one, and it will work well enough he'll stick with it.

Evans is not going to be a starter in the NBA. He'll be the 8th or 9th option off the bench. He can contribute in spots for short periods of time. It's unlikely he'll build enough bulk too make him a major factor. If he does, he'll lose some of his athletic ability including the fan favorite vertical leap. He'll make a couple of mill a year and play 12 years. One big risk for Evans is injury. His type of body is prone to catastrophic injury and if he has one, it could shorten his career.

Millsap should rotate between the 3 and the four. It depends on the matchups. When Millsap comes back from the summer, he'll have a 3 pt shot, he'll be faster and he'll be able to handle the ball off the dribble better. The Jazz will lose 4 rebounds or maybe 5 a game from Sap, but Favors will pick those up.

The Jazz need to increase their defensive rebounds by an average of 3 to 5 per game and that will put them in the middle to up end of the playoff rankings.

Finally, a lot of fans and poster's on this site are going to be surprised at how effective Harris is at PG once he's gone through a training camp and there's a concrete offensive and defensive strategy on the table.

The Jazz don't need another point guard, so I hope they don't waste a pick on one. (They'll probably trade their picks depending on the lottery outcome.)

However, they do need two backup PG's that have some scoring ability and who are consistent within the offense, but who also don't expect to be starters. The Jazz have always had problems finding backup point guards. It's one reason I think they should sign Watson now and sign Weaver before training camp. Weaver is cheap and so is Watson. The Jazz probably won't do that, however. They have had a tendency in the past to wait too long to make decisions of this type. I hope they don't that this time around.

carrottop12 · Post #6 » by **carrottop12** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 6:41 pm

Lol, millsap averaging 2.6 boards per, what a joker. :rofl:

Reckless · Post #7 » by **Reckless** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:02 pm

nice post, i wish they could be these players

eLo · Post #8 » by **eLo** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:15 pm

babyjax13 wrote:A superstar? Borderline, but yes – certainly not on the level of Howard, but a lot better than Boozer was

why not on the level of DH? He is skinny 19, but if you let him to gain some mass and some expirience he can be even better than Howard, he already got better shot mechanics, imo bigger basketball iq, he got phenomenal athleticism, great def instinct so on and so on. And imo Boozer and Fav are players from two different planets, we shouldn't set together there names

Bat wrote: I also think hayward's ceiling is higher than prince since he's a much better ball handler and has a better frame.

that plus he is more dynamic, let just say that he is Prince version which meets Jazz expectation

ps. about JEvans, thats true he is not as long as Ibaka, but if we leave comparisons, he can be truly great role player, is funny cause his collage game can transfer fully on nba level

HammerDunk · Post #9 » by **HammerDunk** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 9:15 pm

My question is why does Evans have to bulk up that much to play the 3? Durant does NOT weigh the 230 they are advertising him as, is stringy as hell, and has no problems playing the 3. Evans could gain about 20 lbs and still be perfectly fine at the 3, but I wouldn't want him to gain any more. I want Evans at the 3 and I want him to stay thin and quick. He is NOT a PF.

He could definitely be the starting 3 for this team. He has shown that he has the tools to play that position. He has a decent jumper which he will work on and improve, is quick and a very good jumper. He will learn how to play without fouling as much. I don't know why he couldn't start at the 3. Of course he wouldn't be a top 3 scoring option, but he wouldn't need to.

carrottop12 · Post #10 » by **carrottop12** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 9:57 pm

HammerDunk wrote:My question is why does Evans have to bulk up that much to play the 3? Durant does NOT weigh the 230 they are advertising him as, is stringy as hell, and has no problems playing the 3. Evans could gain about 20 lbs and still be perfectly fine at the 3, but I wouldn't want him to gain any more. I want Evans at the 3 and I want him to stay thin and quick. He is NOT a PF.

He could definitely be the starting 3 for this team. He has shown that he has the tools to play that position. He has a decent jumper which he will work on and improve, is quick and a very good jumper. He will learn how to play without fouling as much. I don't know why he couldn't start at the 3. Of course he wouldn't be a top 3 scoring option, but he wouldn't need to.

He certainly doesn't need to add 30 lbs, nor do I think he is possible with out turning into a chubby. He can easily put on 15-20 similar to the way CJ has with out losing hardly any of his athleticism. He's a very good leaper but his wingspan is what makes him a real freak. He's a pterodactyl.

babyjax13 · Post #11 » by **babyjax13** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:08 pm

Jeremy Evans wingspan: 7-6
Serge Ibaka wingspan: 7-4
Jeremy's height: 6-9
Ibaka's height: 6-10
Jeremy's vertical leap: ??? somewhere between 42 and 44 I would imagine.
Serge's vertical leap: 46 inches

Can't find standing reach, but to me Jeremy only looks smaller than Serge because of weight.

http://www.bgdailynews.com/articles/201 ... ports2.txt

LjJazzman · Post #12 » by **LjJazzman** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 2:08 am

HammerDunk wrote:My question is why does Evans have to bulk up that much to play the 3? Durant does NOT weigh the 230 they are advertising him as, is stringy as hell, and has no problems playing the 3. Evans could gain about 20 lbs and still be perfectly fine at the 3, but I wouldn't want him to gain any more. I want Evans at the 3 and I want him to stay thin and quick. He is NOT a PF.

He could definitely be the starting 3 for this team. He has shown that he has the tools to play that position. He has a decent jumper which he will work on and improve, is quick and a very good jumper. He will learn how to play without fouling as much. I don't know why he couldn't start at the 3. Of course he wouldn't be a top 3 scoring option, but he wouldn't need to.

He HAS to add some weight because he isnt an outside shooter like Kevin. Evens HAS to play inside with the big boys.

HammerDunk · Post #13 » by **HammerDunk** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:00 am

I think he has decent range, obviously not 3 point range, but I have seen him hit some long jumpers well enough to think he may be able to develop the outside shot. The Jazz pegged him as a 4 from draft day, and I think that was a mistake. He should have spent more of the season working on his range. If it's not there, then I don't think he is the SF we are looking for.

qman · Post #14 » by **qman** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:08 am

Evans will not put on weight. Even he doesn't believe it is possible.

When asked whether it would be easier to improve his outside shot or put on more weight, he said, "I think the shot is more realistic. I've worked really hard on getting the bulk, but I don't think it's going to come, because I've tried everything. It might come with age."

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7001 ... .html?pg=2

Evans is already 24.

HammerDunk · Post #15 » by **HammerDunk** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:41 am

I don't see why he can't develop that outside shot. He has a nice stroke. It would be a travesty for him to bulk up and lose his jumping ability and quickness. Just look at what bulking up has done to AK.

Post #16 » by **DelaneyRudd** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:43 am

These aren't as much scary parallels as manipulative statistics.

Luigi · Post #17 » by **Luigi** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:57 am

Hayward has stubby arms by NBA standards. Prince has long arms by NBA standards.

Just to set the record straight. I've been hearing how long Hayward is, and how he reminds people of a young AK. He doesn't have go-go-gadget arms. Hayward could still be doing a lot of the same things that Prince does on the court, I just wanted to point out that difference. Hopefully this ends up translating into good ball control and free throws, because he's not going to be able to bother shots in the same way as Prince.