Owners to push for $45mm hardcap after lockout begins...

BarneyGumble · Post #1 » by **BarneyGumble** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:24 pm

As per wiretap. They are also said to be pushing for no guaranteed contracts.

Great move by the owners IMHO. They are leaving a little wiggle room for the Union to negotiate so the players feel like they've won some kind of victory in the end. When it's all said and done, I do believe we will lose the 2012 season but we will have a $50-$55mm hardcap with guaranteed max contracts of 3-4 years.

I think this is what the NBA needs long-term. This happened with the NHL and the result has been a much more competitive hockey league. A hardcap gives every team the chance to build around an all-star type player, and if players want to go elsewhere they will have the chance more often with shorter contracts.

Also, this helps avoid the "large market superteam" complex that plagues the MLB, leaving the rest of its teams crappy. The purchasing power of $1 in Salt Lake City, for example, greatly exceeds the purchasing power of $1 in New York City for basic living expenses.

What are your thoughts/comments/predictions for how this will all shake out? Will it be good or bad in the long-run for the Utah Jazz and the league as a whole?

carrottop12 · Post #2 » by **carrottop12** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:54 pm

I would love to see a system that works better, but I hate the idea of losing an entire year of basketball next season.

My guess is we end up with a 55 million dollar flex cap with a 65 million dollar ceiling. I'd love to get rid of guaranteed deals, but I really don't see the owners being able to get that, especially if the institute a true hard cap. Shorter deals are possible though.

Post #3 » by **StocktonShorts** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:40 pm

I just don't see how you have a hard cap without prohibiting 100%-guaranteed deals.

Fido · Post #4 » by **Fido** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:50 pm

If the players don't move to meet the owners part way and they end up in lockout, I don't see the need from the owners POV to keep the concessions they gave as part of the negotiation. That means they would essentially be holding out until the union breaks. And that might take at least a year.

hoops4life · Post #5 » by **hoops4life** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:09 pm

I hope a deal gets done. I am starting to think it might be best in the long run to have a lockout out for a bit though. Sure, it will hurt in the short run but it will be best.

UTJazzFan_Echo1 · Post #6 » by **UTJazzFan_Echo1** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:36 pm

I'm glad the owners are sticking to their guns. As much as I'm going to HATE and LOATHE any sort or form of a lockout it's something that needs to be done in order to fix the system. Funny thing is that from the sounds of things a lot of fans are on the owners side...I wonder if the players have any idea of that...

Does anyone know who the Jazz have as their player representative??? I'm guessing it was D-Will before he left but now...who knows? Millsap? CJ? Harris?

The59Sound · Post #7 » by **The59Sound** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:37 pm

I thought it was Ronnie Price previously.

seejaydeja · Post #8 » by **seejaydeja** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:38 pm

yeah i think price or bell...

Xsy · Post #9 » by **Xsy** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:47 pm

I feel the worst for the little guys that work for the NBA.

At the end of the day, the owners and players are going to be making millions. These guys will just be out of work.

DBJAZZ2 · Post #10 » by **DBJAZZ2** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:37 pm

As much as I love the Jazz and the NBA I kinda hope there is an extended lockout to the point drastic changes are made. Because let's be honest the way it is now makes it very hard for the Jazz to ever win a championship. We will never be able to draw multiple stars to come here via free agency; we will never spend Mark Cuban type money to win; it will be hard to keep our talent long term.

Now if changes are made to where small market teams have big market teams with the same restrictions then shrewd management and coaching will make the difference. This is the best opportunity Utah ever has to win, so changes have to be made or we will have to be content with deep playoff runs, but ultimately no titles.

UTJazzFan_Echo1 · Post #11 » by **UTJazzFan_Echo1** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:30 pm

No surprise....owners inform union that they are locking the players out. Starts at 12:01 tonight (err, tomorrow morning)

seejaydeja · Post #12 » by **seejaydeja** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:31 pm

Time to get an official lockout thread going...Sticky?

Post #13 » by **DelaneyRudd** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:46 pm

This is a terrible deal offered for the players. They had 57% of BRI and now they are being asked to get only 40%. The real reason for this is to prop up the value of these franchises to sell.

I don't get how a hard cap helps the Jazz. We have a team with keepers. A hard cap helps depleted teams looking to take the keepers after one team develops them.

The59Sound · Post #14 » by **The59Sound** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:50 pm

DelaneyRudd wrote:I don't get how a hard cap helps the Jazz. We have a team with keepers. A hard cap helps depleted teams looking to take the keepers after one team develops them.

Agreed. In my view, the soft cap has benefited the Jazz quite a bit. I'm actually a bit scared of the prospect of a hard cap.

franklin · Post #15 » by **franklin** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:13 pm

$45 million is ridiculously lowball. The owners know it and are posturing.

DBJAZZ2 · Post #16 » by **DBJAZZ2** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:24 pm

DelaneyRudd wrote:This is a terrible deal offered for the players. They had 57% of BRI and now they are being asked to get only 40%. The real reason for this is to prop up the value of these franchises to sell.

That is the players claim that in 10 years they will only be getting 40% of BRI. What the owners offered was a guaranteed $2 billion annually for 10 years. This last season players got $2.17 billion in salaries. So it's actually not a huge cut. And if you do the math for the whole league, assuming each team has the maximum allowed 15 players it comes to an average salary of $4.4 million. Which IMO is a very fair and generous amount for the average player.

I'm sorry but in economic times like these I don't feel bad that players have to make significant cuts just like we all do. Few of us have the spending power we did 5 years ago so why should players retain? And if you say " well the NBA is up and ratings and tickets are up so obviously the players deserve it to stay up" that's true but it has come at the expense of the owners. These are the guys who take on all the risk, but the players are reaping the major financial rewards. That's not how effective business models work. My boss takes the risks, I'm a grunt so I expect him to make the major rewards and me to have a fair salary. I'm not asking any different of these players.

I am not ashamed at all to say that in the NFL I side with the players over disputes and in the NBA I side completely with the owners, especially small market ones.

idajazz · Post #17 » by **idajazz** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:29 pm

It is awfully hard to get behind the players who make such ridiculous amounts of money.

Toothless · Post #18 » by **Toothless** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:23 pm

$45 million hard cap would be a significant shock to players and agents. The jazz were about $74 million last year and $63 million projected this year (signing Watson to similar deal, letting AK walk). If that's where the owners are going, it might be a long lockout. They've seen it coming for years, the owners/players should have gotten something done. What if the fans came back with a "walkout." We will boycott all of your games unless you settle something before the season starts. The customer should have a voice in all of this.

idajazz · Post #19 » by **idajazz** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:48 pm

The NBA has always been a league of haves and have not's. Just scroll down through the list of champions. If the NBA changes and becomes more like the NFL in the sense that all teams would have the opportunity to win the ring, and small market teams able to compete with the large market teams, I would buy season tickets and travel 200 miles for each home game, and I would purchase league pass.
I would also love to see the size of max deals cut significantly. I'm sick and tired of the upper tier of players holding the whole league hostage.

Post #20 » by **StocktonShorts** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:54 pm

When people talk about the haves and the have-nots, I'm really not sure which group the Jazz belong to. They're in a small market, but they have great attendance figures and have had a top 5-6 payroll the last few years. Very few teams have outspent the Jazz on player salaries. (Several have spent more smartly, but that's another issue).