Alec Burks vs Gordan Hayward

Post #1 » by **FJS** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:02 pm

Hayward was the first pic under the top 10 Jazz had since 2005 in Deron Williams. and the second after 1983 Thrul Bailey.
We are expecting a lot for him, and he shows some points of lights, but still he has some deceiving games.
In the other hand Burks it's a 12# pic. The highest pick Jazz have had not named Kanter, Williams or Hayward since 1984.
He plays sometimes uncontrolled, but he has a smooth shoot, and he attacks the rim with his soul. He makes some mistakes, but when he is in the game, you know he is gonna score.
In 12 min per game he is averaging 6.3 ppg (2FTA). Hayward last year was in 17 mpg scoring 5.4 ppg (1.3 FGA)

Per 36 Alec is better than Hayward was in his rookie season.

I still believe in Hayward.... but, could be Burks better than Hayward and people is sleeping on him due to we have #3 of 2011 and 2010 year and #9 of 2010 in our roster?

babyjax13 · Post #2 » by **babyjax13** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:04 pm

Up until a few weeks before draft day, Burks was a lock for the top ten. We are extremely lucky to have drafted him.

MeestR · Post #3 » by **MeestR** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:21 pm

obviously we cant keep both of them. they play the same positions and are both too good. but it will be a pleasure to watch for the next few years while we have both on their rookie contracts.

for the moment, i prefer to see it as burks AND hayward. (then again, the heat have 2 superstar players who play the same positions. it seems to be working out ok for them....

)

retiredcoach · Post #4 » by **retiredcoach** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:22 pm

It's not a matter of whether Hayward is better or Burks is going to be better. They have a different style completely.

Right now the biggest difference is Burks rarely gets an assist, doesn't look to pass and is looking like he's going to become the 4th black hole on the Jazz.

Al, Millsap and Howard are black holes 1, 2 and 3. This is not something new for these guys. It's been a long part of their careers. The one thing that bothers me about Burks is with his ball handling skills he should be a balanced scoring and assist guy. He's not.

The other problem I see is his shot selection. A lot of his shots come on the inside so his shooting percentage should be higher. When he drives he needs to look to pass a lot more often than he does.

Hayward has the opposite problem. He over passes.

Give it 2 years and let's see where we are with these guys.

russnumber3 · Post #5 » by **russnumber3** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:35 pm

retiredcoach wrote:It's not a matter of whether Hayward is better or Burks is going to be better. They have a different style completely.

Right now the biggest difference is Burks rarely. gets an assist, doesn't look to pass and is looking like he's going to become the 4th black hole on the Jazz.

Al, Millsap and Howard are black holes 1, 2 and 3. This is not something new for these guys. It's been a long part of their careers. The one thing that bothers me about Burks is with his ball handling skills he should be a balanced scoring and assist guy. He's not.

The other problem I see is his shot selection. A lot of his shots come on the inside so his shooting percentage should be higher. When he drives he needs to look to pass a lot more often than he does.

Hayward has the opposite problem. He over passes.

Give it 2 years and let's see where we are with these guys.

I think it is unfair to call Millsap and Howard black holes. You have to have guys like them who can score and are willing to do so. You can't have a bunch of Haywards running around passing to each other - you would never even get a shot up.

Lava Rock Kid · Post #6 » by **Lava Rock Kid** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:31 pm

Utah will keep the white guy. LOL

hornacek4three · Post #7 » by **hornacek4three** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:32 pm

the only real black hole we have is Al. He gets stuck in double teams where passing it out doesnt even occur to him. Al still does some good things and there are nights we'd be dead without his scoring

Post #8 » by **FJS** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:37 pm

Lava Rock Kid wrote:Utah will keep the white guy. LOL

Well, 2011-12 is the less white Utah Jazz team ever.

In the other hand I think Burks tries to do a lot knowing he does not playing a lot. Still, he is 0.8 apg in 12 min. Almost 3 per 36. It's not a big deal, but for example Favors has dished 1 in 12 games.
Hayward in his rookie session was giving 1.1 per game in 17 min, so there's no a big difference.

Post #9 » by **FJS** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:40 pm

hornacek4three wrote:the only real black hole we have is Al. He gets stuck in double teams where passing it out doesnt even occur to him. Al still does some good things and there are nights we'd be dead without his scoring

Yesterday I noticed how Millsap looked daggers at Al in a play where he should pass him and instead Al went to the rim. However, He got the foul.

Ugly0598 · Post #10 » by **Ugly0598** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:56 pm

Burks and Hayward are completely different players, however, that being said, I would think Burks is probably going to be more valuable to this team in the future due to the fact he's a scorer and Hayward is a facilitator.

retiredcoach · Post #11 » by **retiredcoach** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:58 pm

by FJS on Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:37 am

In the other hand I think Burks tries to do a lot knowing he does not playing a lot. Still, he is 0.8 apg in 12 min. Almost 3 per 36. It's not a big deal, but for example Favors has dished 1 in 12 games.
Hayward in his rookie session was giving 1.1 per game in 17 min, so there's no a big difference.

There's a huge difference between Hayward and Burks in the assist department. Hayward is a play maker who looks for the open man.

Burks isn't a playmaker and doesn't look for the open man. He looks for the scoring opportunity--good or bad. If he gets an assist, right now it's by accident. That's going to have to change. Burks is a shot first guy much like CJ.

Al has always been a black hole on every team he has played for and so has Josh Howard. Howard is showing signs of it again as he plays more minutes. Milllsap isn't as much of a black hole but he likes certain players so he overlooks the open guy and only passes to the couple of guys he likes regardless of what position they are in.

Post #12 » by **FJS** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:50 pm

Well, we have seen only 12 min per game of Burks.

In NCAA Burks was better passer in his sophomore year (and scorer) than Hayward.

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/gordon-hayward
http://www.nbadraft.net/players/alec-burks

So maybe Burks can develop his passing ability.

shijizuo · Post #13 » by **shijizuo** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:28 am

MeestR wrote:obviously we cant keep both of them. they play the same positions and are both too good. but it will be a pleasure to watch for the next few years while we have both on their rookie contracts.

for the moment, i prefer to see it as burks AND hayward. (then again, the heat have 2 superstar players who play the same positions. it seems to be working out ok for them.... )

He plays sometimes uncontrolled, but he has a smooth shoot, and he attacks the rim with his soul. He makes some mistakes, but when he is in the game, you know he is gonna score

Getjazz · Post #14 » by **Getjazz** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:29 am

To say he is like CJ is a Joke. He is a great assist guy who is finding his way right now and his assists will come. I don't understand the hard FACT like opinions about him in this. His NCAA days say that he will be great 2-1 type of player. It's way to early to make such FACT claims about him. Plus some of the assist that he has made are better than nearly anyone elses on this team.

The59Sound · Post #15 » by **The59Sound** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:19 am

He has the ability to pass; that's just not his mindset from what I've seen. But given that he seems to be a good kid who is eager to learn, that's something you can work on. He's not a playmaker like Hayward and will probably never be an assist man or starting PG, but I think he'll be an above-average distributor at the 2 when it's all said and done.

I'd like to keep them both over the long haul, but it is a shame that Hayward's ideal position is SG, as opposed to SF.

retiredcoach · Post #16 » by **retiredcoach** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:56 am

by Getjazz on Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:29 pm
To say he is like CJ is a Joke.

Burks was on my original list of 4 players the Jazz should have drafted so I'm not knocking Burks. I understand how he played in college. That's why he was on my list.

I said he was CJ like in the shoot first approach he is taking now. If you disagree with that fine. Show me the proof, but the observation isn't a joke.

His college numbers don't matter. This is the NBA. What has he been doing since he came to the NBA? That's the issue. Hopefully, it will change but I'm not sure.

Hopefully Hayward will curb his generosity too and start taking 12 shots plus a game. But we won't know until it happens.

Jazzfan12 · Post #17 » by **Jazzfan12** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:20 am

FJS wrote:Well, we have seen only 12 min per game of Burks.

In NCAA Burks was better passer in his sophomore year (and scorer) than Hayward.

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/gordon-hayward
http://www.nbadraft.net/players/alec-burks

So maybe Burks can develop his passing ability.

Hayward was playing PF in college and had limited opportunities to make plays because of that and because he was playing on a really good team. Meanwhile Burks had the ball in his hands all of the time. Burks may be a better passer, but their roles are way too different to compare their assist numbers I think.

Efernand · Post #18 » by **Efernand** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:06 pm

Burks has a higher ceiling than Hayward. I still see Hayward's future being the 4th option on a championship caliber team.

HolyToledo · Post #19 » by **HolyToledo** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:41 pm

I think we likely keep them both as starters....the real question is whether Burks can develop into a PG and not just a SG. The Jazz and us are going to have to wait and see.

carrottop12 · Post #20 » by **carrottop12** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:05 pm

Burks passing will come, he's too talented of a passer to not start finding players on his drives.

If you notice, Burks doesn't really score with in the offense, he isolates and scores off the dribble. Every team needs that, no doubt, but it also disrupts the offense and takes guys out of the position to score off of assists.

Nobody is collapsing on Burks right now when he drives so it isn't like he can kick it out, and the opponent's bigs aren't sliding over to help either, which doesn't leave Al or Paul open. It's the reason Burks is able to finish so easily, and why he is getting to the line, his guy ends up fouling him to prevent him from having an easy two.

It'll come though, once he gets comfortable in the system he'll starting finding those open teammates.