Does front court really need fixing? Or is it the back court

finnegan · Post #1 » by **finnegan** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:42 pm

I read about Al Jefferson being a black hole that stifles the offense, and yet he is in the top 5 for assists at the Center position.

There is jabber that we should trade Paul Milsap, and yet he is as efficient as Bargnani, who currently has a very high asking price.

From a pure statistical perspective, the front court is not the problem. It is the back court. We don't have a single guard (SG or PG) who even cracks the top 50 in efficiency. There is also not a significant player statistically at the SF position.

I don't this that we need to trade any of our front court players. The solution seems pretty clear to me:

1. Sign Kirilenko at SF
2. Get an efficient pass first PG like Calderon or Miller

Obviusly geting a good SG would be a nice triple play. But I think that SF and PG are what need to be fixed.

Efernand · Post #2 » by **Efernand** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:12 am

Al Jefferson has the 3rd highest usage rate of any center in the league and is 29th in Assist Ratio (the percentage of a player's possessions that ends in an assist) amongst centers

Bargnani has a high asking price? Where? While he was having his best season before getting injured the fact is before this season the dude was close to untradeable. Nobody wants a player that brings nothing but scoring to the table.

What would Kirilenko and Calderon do for this team? Get us a 7th or 8th seed? I don't think that's what anyone here wants for this team.

finnegan · Post #3 » by **finnegan** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:44 am

Efernand wrote: Al Jefferson has the 3rd highest usage rate of any center in the league and is 29th in Assist Ratio (the percentage of a player's possessions that ends in an assist) amongst centers

Reference?

Efernand wrote:
What would Kirilenko and Calderon do for this team? Get us a 7th or 8th seed? I don't think that's what anyone here wants for this team.

7th or 8th seed sounds pretty good to me right now. Gotta start somewhere!

Efernand · Post #4 » by **Efernand** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:54 am

finnegan wrote:
Efernand wrote: Al Jefferson has the 3rd highest usage rate of any center in the league and is 29th in Assist Ratio (the percentage of a player's possessions that ends in an assist) amongst centers

Reference?

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/c/sort/assistRatio

Post #5 » by **StocktonShorts** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:22 am

finnegan wrote:7th or 8th seed sounds pretty good to me right now. Gotta start somewhere!

Why do you want this team to be stuck on the mediocrity treadmill?

This isn't a team that can be turned into a contender by adding role players.

QuantumMacgyver · Post #6 » by **QuantumMacgyver** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:41 am

I think most everyone agrees that our back court is the problem. The reason there is so much talk about trading our front court is because they are the most valuable, tradeable assets we have to improve our front court.

UTJazzFan_Echo1 · Post #7 » by **UTJazzFan_Echo1** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:54 am

QuantumMacgyver wrote:I think most everyone agrees that our back court is the problem. The reason there is so much talk about trading our front court is because they are the most valuable, tradeable assets we have to improve our front court.

This.

Speaking of trades though, someone should start a sticky trade thread so we can compile all our trade ideas into one spot. Good place for non-Jazz fans to post trade ideas too. It's going to get busy with the deadline coming up.

Xsy · Post #8 » by **Xsy** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:09 am

As stated before, we all know our front court rocks-- but they can't play well when opposing teams know our team sucks crap from the perimeter. We can't just obtain a good back court trading crappy our back court players. The only players that can pick us up good picks or players are our two leading big men.

Now, don't get me wrong-- Millsap and Jefferson would be fine if the Jazz were a playoff team. But they aren't-- they're a rebuilding team, and the FO needs to just admit it.

Trying to build a 'contending' roster when there's no chance in hell Utah's making any noise in the playoffs this year is a waste of time for our youth. I'd rather Kanter and Favors learn their NBA game and young-guy mistakes now instead of stunting their growth from the bench this year and next.

JDubJazz · Post #9 » by **JDubJazz** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:08 pm

Making moves to be a little more competitive this year do nothing for us in the long term. I want both Al and Millsap traded, not because I don't like them, but because they have no future here and we still need to add that one big piece.

Favors and Kanter need to spend as much time on the court as possible so that they learn how to play together. They are likely our starting front court for the next decade, so lets get them where they need to be now instead of making them watch from the sidelines while Al and Paul go get their numbers.

Mediocrity is the absolute worst place you can be in the NBA for the long term. The Jazz need clear out Big Al and Paul and just take their lumps for the rest of the season. Go into next year with cap space and draft picks, and try to land the two things this team lacks: a young, competent PG and a legitimate #1 go-to guy. Those two things could from the same guy, but likely not. Once they get that, this team will be ready to roll, ala OKC.

finnegan · Post #10 » by **finnegan** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:27 pm

QuantumMacgyver wrote:I think most everyone agrees that our back court is the problem. The reason there is so much talk about trading our front court is because they are the most valuable, tradeable assets we have to improve our front court.

Good point.

finnegan · Post #11 » by **finnegan** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:35 pm

MacheteConfetti wrote:Now, don't get me wrong-- Millsap and Jefferson would be fine if the Jazz were a playoff team. But they aren't-- they're a rebuilding team, and the FO needs to just admit it.

I have been saying that since we traded Deron. I just think that shedding the Devin Harris contract should be the #1 priority, and if there is a decent PG (Calderon) and SF (Kirilenko although I have no idea what his current asking price is), then plug them in Devin Harris's spot (in terms of salary).

Since the NBA has a minimum salary, it just doesn't make sense to me to trade Milsap or Big Al. Kater and Favors can continue to develop, until their level of play demands that they start. However; I am confused as to why Kanter does not get more playing time, based on his consistently solid performances.

If a good offer comes along for Milsap or Big Al, then the Jazz have to take it. But the only players that they should be pushing out the door right now are Harris and possibly CJ.

Jazz_Man_86 · Post #12 » by **Jazz_Man_86** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:13 pm

JDubJazz wrote:Favors and Kanter need to spend as much time on the court as possible so that they learn how to play together. They are likely our starting front court for the next decade, so lets get them where they need to be now instead of making them watch from the sidelines while Al and Paul go get their numbers.
.

Last games when Kanter and Favors both on the floor, Utah offense is struggling.
I like these guys, but i really like Al and Paul more, Enes and Derrick has no offensive moves.Favors got into offensive fouls about two times per game.

So returning to the thread. We need BACK court. How can do many good things. Such us hit 3s and defend them.

Or maybe Harris + Bell = good guards. But we have bad coach?

ColdBlue · Post #13 » by **ColdBlue** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:56 pm

MacheteConfetti wrote:Trying to build a 'contending' roster when there's no chance in hell Utah's making any noise in the playoffs this year is a waste of time for our youth. I'd rather Kanter and Favors learn their NBA game and young-guy mistakes now instead of stunting their growth from the bench this year and next.

I don't think "growth" in the NBA is a simple black and white function involving time on the court. I do think that too little time on the court can certainly stunt growth but both Kanter and Favors get pretty significant minutes to counter that argument. They need to develop their games and a good part of that is learning from vets. Should they get more minutes? Maybe, but they are not ready to be the focus. That could be a disaster. Especially in Favors' case.

I think if anyone, Burks is the guy who is getting hurt by lack of minutes. He might be the go to guy in the future.

finnegan · Post #14 » by **finnegan** » Thu Mar 8, 2012 4:52 pm

Looks like Big Al is becoming an asset to the Jazz.

JDubJazz · Post #15 » by **JDubJazz** » Fri Mar 9, 2012 2:45 pm

Jazz_Man_86 wrote:
JDubJazz wrote:Favors and Kanter need to spend as much time on the court as possible so that they learn how to play together. They are likely our starting front court for the next decade, so lets get them where they need to be now instead of making them watch from the sidelines while Al and Paul go get their numbers.
.

Last games when Kanter and Favors both on the floor, Utah offense is struggling.
I like these guys, but i really like Al and Paul more, Enes and Derrick has no offensive moves.Favors got into offensive fouls about two times per game.

So returning to the thread. We need BACK court. How can do many good things. Such us hit 3s and defend them.

Or maybe Harris + Bell = good guards. But we have bad coach?

It OK if they struggle right now. Once again, winning THIS year is not the priority. They need enough minutes out there together to learn each others' tendencies and get some real on-court chemistry so that they won't struggle in the future. Or, if they really are a bad fit together, then we need to find out ASAP so that we can move one of them for another player who is a better fit.

Spottieottie · Post #16 » by **Spottieottie** » Fri Mar 9, 2012 5:17 pm

When Al is playing great, he's great. But these soft teams we just played are covering up his deficiencies. Remember the Sacremento game... Cousins torched him so hard in the clutch. Against Minnesota, Pekovich destroyed him in the post on several consecutive possesions. Even against the Bobcats, Bismack flippin Biyombo took him off the dribble for an easy layup. Some stiff on the Cavs did it the game before as well.

finnegan · Post #17 » by **finnegan** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:43 am

Spottieottie wrote:When Al is playing great, he's great. But these soft teams we just played are covering up his deficiencies. Remember the Sacremento game... Cousins torched him so hard in the clutch. Against Minnesota, Pekovich destroyed him in the post on several consecutive possesions. Even against the Bobcats, Bismack flippin Biyombo took him off the dribble for an easy layup. Some stiff on the Cavs did it the game before as well.

Every player is a package deal, and they all have some deficiencies. Big Al's offensive weapons easily outweigh his defensive issues. Bi Al destroyed Biyombo, and yet Biyombo defended Dwight Howard well just a few games prior.

falcon107 · Post #18 » by **falcon107** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:10 am

Front court does not need fixing. But it is loaded. Back court needs fixing. But how it is the question?

Only tradeable assets of Utah is at the front court. Jefferson and/or Milsap. Buy trading one or both of them for good (maybe not so good but young but with potential) player(s) at the guard positions, Utah may become a contender in 2 or 3 years. By trading these players also Favors and Kanter will find more playing time, and that will eventually will make them much more better.