27 FGA, 0 FTA

Reckless · Post #1 » by **Reckless** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:02 am

Big Al can't get his Big Ass to the free throw line

what you get is 27 attempts to score 28 points

How does a big guy like with supposed great offensive ability completely fail to draw fouls?!?!?

Post #2 » by **StocktonShorts** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:08 am

He was too busy creating good looks for teammates to draw fouls.

Jazzfan12 · Post #3 » by **Jazzfan12** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:11 am

Al has issues offensively and his lack of foul drawing tonight was unacceptable, but we're still 7th in offense. Defense is a way bigger issue for Al...

Litany · Post #4 » by **Litany** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:16 am

This is Al. It's is One of the many things that lead to the conclusion that Al does not play winning basketball.

I don't want Al on this team next season and I don't care if we get less than we gave up to get him.

Post #5 » by **StocktonShorts** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:22 am

28 points on 27 shots.

Litany · Post #6 » by **Litany** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:45 am

I finally reached the point of having to unfollow David Locke after his latest emptying the noggin blog post. These two little numbers pushed me over the edge. One is a tweet the other from the blog:

"Lots of twitter action about the lack of subs. Really it was the case on both side. Willie Green was the only sub from Atlanta. I think it is a legitimate discussion because I thought guys were gassed but I didn’t see a lot of people with specific answers to what they were doing. Favors needs to play more than 19 minutes not because it is the overtime but because he is good if not better than the other guys but who were you taking out of the game and when. Jefferson’s inability to guard the pick and roll in the open floor was an issue for a while but then how are you scoring Millsap was 10 of 25 tonight. Burks for CJ could be a possible move but CJ had held down Joe Johnson as we showed earlier for 3 of 16 since the 1st quarter. It is never as easy as just make the change, when and for whom and how."

"@Lockedonsports: You would never know from looking at Twitter timeline that Favors was -9 in 19 mins tonight - not sure the validity but worth a mention"

Is he just a massive troll?

He really think we are buying his "how do you score" without Al BS?

We've shown an ability to score well without Al against great teams without Al. And the other crap he brings with him makes his production negative. Matador D. Inefficient volume scoring. Ball stopping. Never gets to the line so their team dictates their bigs rotation however they want instead of getting them in foul trouble.

mct · Post #7 » by **mct** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:46 am

HappyProle wrote:28 points on 27 shots.

So disingenuous. We've been through this before, man. The fact that he had 0 FTAs and only 1 TO and shot over 50 percent means he had a very efficient offensive game in terms of points per possession. It might have been nice to get Zaza in foul trouble, and maybe he should have set up his teammates more, but some of those FGAs resulted in second chance points (which is much rarer from the FT line).

Pick on his defense if you want. But please use some real logic next time you bash Al.

Post #8 » by **StocktonShorts** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:54 am

Clearly you and I have a different expectation for efficiency.

Litany · Post #9 » by **Litany** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:01 am

mct wrote:
HappyProle wrote:28 points on 27 shots.

So disingenuous. We've been through this before, man. The fact that he had 0 FTAs and only 1 TO and shot over 50 percent means he had a very efficient offensive game in terms of points per possession. It might have been nice to get Zaza in foul trouble, and maybe he should have set up his teammates more, but some of those FGAs resulted in second chance points (which is much rarer from the FT line).

Pick on his defense if you want. But please use some real logic next time you bash Al.

#notsureifserious

babyjax13 · Post #10 » by **babyjax13** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:23 am

So as Al goes 14-27 people start to knock him (even though the offense flowed really well with him in the game) and yet they ignore Paul Millsap's 10-25 and the fact that Corbin didn't bring in Favors for him (who was playing much better)? This loss isn't on Al's back, it rests on Ty's. Blown calls also led to this loss. The Favors dunk that should have been followed by a freethrow, Millsap's missed dunk where he was clearly mauled right at the rim, etc. etc.

Litany · Post #11 » by **Litany** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:26 am

babyjax13 wrote:So as Al goes 14-27 people start to knock him (even though the offense flowed really well with him in the game) and yet they ignore Paul Millsap's 10-25 and the fact that Corbin didn't bring in Favors for him (who was playing much better)? This loss isn't on Al's back, it rests on Ty's. Blown calls also led to this loss. The Favors dunk that should have been followed by a freethrow, Millsap's missed dunk where he was clearly mauled right at the rim, etc. etc.

You are right. Sap should be called out and in the end it is On Ty's shoulders.

Having said that, glad there is another one tomorrow, want to forget thus one quick.

cjs55 · Post #12 » by **cjs55** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:27 am

Not to say Big Al had a good game, because he didn't (his defense was really, really bad), but points per shot isn't the best metric for efficiency.

For example: If you score 20 points on 10/20 shooting but no free throws vs 20 points on 4/14 shooting (going to the line 6 times for 12/12) you have the same efficiency per posession (since you took up 20 either way), but one is 20 points on 20 shots, and the other is 20 points on 14 shots.

Of course, getting the opponent in foul trouble and letting your defense set up are really good reasons for getting to the free throw line, but that's not a part of offensive efficiency. Also you can get offensive rebounds on missed shots, but very rarely on missed free throws.

edit: mct more or less said this already but I'll just leave it here anyways.

mct · Post #13 » by **mct** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:28 am

HappyProle wrote:Clearly you and I have a different expectation for efficiency.

You realize players aren't penalized with a missed shot attempt when the possession ends in free throws? He did have a turnover, so what you should be saying is 28 points on 28 possessions.

Or, you could even go through the play by play and find that 5 of those FGAs resulted in offensive rebounds, which, in terms of efficiency, is the same as making a pass.

Therefore, Al SQUANDERED 23 times down the court to score 28 points.

Not his most efficient game, but certainly way above our team's average for tonight, which to me means that his offense should not be blamed at all for the loss tonight.

J_Ray · Post #14 » by **J_Ray** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:06 am

mct wrote:
HappyProle wrote:Clearly you and I have a different expectation for efficiency.

You realize players aren't penalized with a missed shot attempt when the possession ends in free throws? He did have a turnover, so what you should be saying is 28 points on 28 possessions.

Or, you could even go through the play by play and find that 5 of those FGAs resulted in offensive rebounds, which, in terms of efficiency, is the same as making a pass.

Therefore, Al SQUANDERED 23 times down the court to score 28 points.

Not his most efficient game, but certainly way above our team's average for tonight, which to me means that his offense should not be blamed at all for the loss tonight.

A missed shot that is turned into 2nd chance points is not a the same thing as an assist. Believe it or not, getting to the line is important for a team as a whole too. When a team is in the bonus, the other team can't play as physical on D as they want or else they could give up more free throws. This leads to a boost in shooting percentages if you get better looks at the hoop. Al Jefferson is great to watch sometimes, but there is no reason why he shouldn't be going to the line at least 5-6 times a game. To me, it looks like Jefferson is scared of being physical at times.

Post #15 » by **StocktonShorts** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:33 am

I guess the reason I keep harping on Al is that he brings so little to the table besides scoring. He's so bad on defense that he needs to be excellent on offense to make up for it, and usually he falls short of excellence.

Obviously he wasn't the reason het he Jazz lost this game. Ty put all of the starters in a horrible situation.

BJSmiles · Post #16 » by **BJSmiles** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:38 am

If you don't realize the CLEAR advantages the team gets from their big man shooting FTs, you really shouldn't be posting on a basketball forum.

red4hf · Post #17 » by **red4hf** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:04 pm

HappyProle wrote:I guess the reason I keep harping on Al is that he brings so little to the table besides scoring. He's so bad on defense that he needs to be excellent on offense to make up for it, and usually he falls short of excellence.

Obviously he wasn't the reason het he Jazz lost this game. Ty put all of the starters in a horrible situation.

I notice you left out the part where the Jazz had to switch to Jefferson guarding Josh Smith, because he was blowing by Millsap at will...... I also notice noone mentioned the wide open shot Millsap missed that would have won the game (dejavu anyone).......

This is Al. It's is One of the many things that lead to the conclusion that Al does not play winning basketball.

Our record would suggest otherwise...... And if he had a decent Coach, who knows where we would be......

d-will8 · Post #18 » by **d-will8** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:15 pm

I cite PPS sometimes, but I realize that it's a flawed stat. PPS aside, however, getting to the free throw line is unquestionably an efficient way to score. I'm not going to take the time to dig into the stats, but I'd guess that the average shot attempt yields just under 1 point, while the average trip to the free throw line yields around 1.5 points. Al shoots 49.3% from the field and %77.6 from the line, so, for him, the average shot yields around .99 points, while the average free throw yields around 1.55 points. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to reach the conclusion that Al would be a lot more efficient if he got to the line more. That's not to mention the other benefits of getting to the line.

mct · Post #19 » by **mct** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:02 pm

d-will8 wrote:I cite PPS sometimes, but I realize that it's a flawed stat. PPS aside, however, getting to the free throw line is unquestionably an efficient way to score. I'm not going to take the time to dig into the stats, but I'd guess that the average shot attempt yields just under 1 point, while the average trip to the free throw line yields around 1.5 points. Al shoots 49.3% from the field and %77.6 from the line, so, for him, the average shot yields around .99 points, while the average free throw yields around 1.55 points. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to reach the conclusion that Al would be a lot more efficient if he got to the line more. That's not to mention the other benefits of getting to the line.

I'd like to see him get to the line more, too. It probably would make him more efficient, and it would definitely make his stats LOOK more efficient to some of you guys.

I take issue when people complain about his PPS AND FTA in the same thread, while always leaving out TOs. It's a dishonest and simple minded argument that people need to stop using against Al.

d-will8 · Post #20 » by **d-will8** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:19 pm

mct wrote:
d-will8 wrote:I cite PPS sometimes, but I realize that it's a flawed stat. PPS aside, however, getting to the free throw line is unquestionably an efficient way to score. I'm not going to take the time to dig into the stats, but I'd guess that the average shot attempt yields just under 1 point, while the average trip to the free throw line yields around 1.5 points. Al shoots 49.3% from the field and %77.6 from the line, so, for him, the average shot yields around .99 points, while the average free throw yields around 1.55 points. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to reach the conclusion that Al would be a lot more efficient if he got to the line more. That's not to mention the other benefits of getting to the line.

I'd like to see him get to the line more, too. It probably would make him more efficient, and it would definitely make his stats LOOK more efficient to some of you guys.

I take issue when people complain about his PPS AND FTA in the same thread, while always leaving out TOs. It's a dishonest and simple minded argument that people need to stop using against Al.

That's a legitimate gripe. I sometimes mention PPS, but that's largely just because it's so quick and easy to calculate. I realize that it's a flawed and overly simplistic stat. It's definitely not the most accurate measure of somebody's efficiency. That said, Al's not exactly a beacon of efficiency according to any of the advanced stats out there. Getting to the line more would unquestionably help with that.