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If the Hawks offered Johan Petro and 3 first round picks for Kanter, would y'all be interested?

*There may not be any room for Kanter (Favors/Milsap are the starters for the foreseeable future).
*Kanter's value goes down every year he gets farther away from the draft and doesn't play much.
*3 ATL picks, even if they range in the 20's, would add a lot of value.
*Petro is an expiring (and was only thrown in to make the numbers work).

Or am I too early?

I don't know how much value 3 mid 20's picks will add. The Jazz already are pretty much set at most positions (unless they get a star to play at one of the positions), they just lack a long term PG. So I don't see how 3 mid 20's picks help the Jazz get either a star or a long term starting PG, considering they also have their own draft picks+GS pick.

Also, I don't know why people are starting to worry about Kanter and think his value is diminishing. He is very young, he didn't play organized ball for almost two years and he is clearly a project, but one that can also contribute while shedding the "project" title throughout his development. There is no need to trade the 3rd overall pick in the draft after just one year for a bunch of mid 20's and lottery protected picks.

Atlanta owns the 23rd pick in the 2013 draft, as well as Houston's pick (via Nets) which is top 14 protected through 2016. in 2017 it becomes a 2nd round pick. I really don't see how this is a good deal for the Jazz.

Also, unless Kanter is a total bust (which I don't remotely think he is or will be), his value will only rise - not fall - as time goes on. Not to mention that we don't know if Milsap or Al will be on the Jazz long term. If even one of them is moved or leaves as a free agent, Kanter gets his minutes. Right now, at the very least he is well served merely being around organized competition of the highest level.

The idea is that the 3 picks could either boost the bench or allow a trade for an upgrade. For example, what kind of PF would y'all get for Milsap and 3 firsts? What kind of PG could y'all get for Mo Williams and those 3 picks?

The rest of it, I mostly agree. I think Kanter will be a solid pro. Where I disagree is with the idea that his value will rise. If he only plays 10-15 minutes/game, I think he won't be able to show enough ... or grow enough.

I think by now everybody already came to terms with the idea that the Jazz will let at least one of Milsap and Al go. Maybe even both. So when that happens, Kanter will get more minutes. It could happen during the year with a trade, or at the very latest - at the start of next year when both end their contract and one won't be retained. Because he is so inexperienced, he can wait until then. There are plenty of players who got too many minutes early on and that didn't necessarily help them.

Since Kanter is on a cheap and long term contract, there is no need to trade him for that offer. But there are plenty of guys in this forum who might take you up on your offer if you proposed it for Milsap, since there is a concern that he will walk away for nothing.

The idea is that the 3 picks could either boost the bench or allow a trade for an upgrade. For example, what kind of PF would y'all get for Milsap and 3 firsts? What kind of PG could y'all get for Mo Williams and those 3 picks?

The Jazz don't need another PF instead of Milsap. Maybe just a backup for 10 minutes, since we still have Al\Favors\Kanter + spot minutes for other players occasionally. Since Mo just got traded to the Jazz, there is a time limit before we can trade him again if we wanted to, and since he clears up 8M+ at the end of the year, I don't know if the Jazz want that. I don't think the Jazz can move him or that they can get a significant upgrade. Who is there to be had for Mo + 3 first round picks in the 20s that will both be a significant upgrade over Mo, and that his team will be willing to trade him for that? I can't think of anyone.

The Golden State pick should be better than 20, so if the Jazz wanted to draft a PG, they could use it instead of the picks offered. And at the last draft, we saw how hard it is to combine picks to move up - the Rockets tried it and the most they were able to do is move up 2 spots. Also, we are not as clueless as Orlando who just took late 1st round picks and a jar of pickles for Howard. How many rookies do you really want on your team anyway? 3 late first round picks + the Jazz pick + the GS pick + Burks\Hayward\Favors\Evans is WAY too young. And btw - the next draft is expected to be horrible (though it is too soon to tell for a fact).

I think I'd take that deal.

I like the idea of three firsts more than developing Kanter right now.

Wait, why is Atlanta so eager to do this if this is Kanter's high water mark?

Luigi wrote:I think I'd take that deal.

I like the idea of three firsts more than developing Kanter right now.

So instead of developing ONE player, one of the strongest players in the league already and the 3rd overall pick, you would rather developing THREE players who were drafted in the 20s and have significantly lower ceilings?

Not to mention you already have two draft picks to make (Jazz+GS) and a young core already, who probably doesn't need to get any younger. By my count, that's FIVE rookies on top of the Jazz young core. Don't see a reason to do that.

Haha, this is ridiculous. Its one thing if Enes had an Adam Morrison or Hasheem Thabeet type rookie year, but he was very solid in the limited time he got, despite the fact that he was coming in to the league with the equivalent of a high school-to-pro experience.

We're talking about a guy that came in and was a solid producer as a scorer and rebounder as a 19-year old with no college experience and who had not played organized ball against decent competition in almost 2 years before his stint at the European Championships. He's fine, and the fact that we have people trolling for value shows that he is. In this league, you pay a premium for upside. Even when its a real longshot at being realized. That's why you have so many high profile busts, because teams will pay a ton to get a shot at a someone who might be great.

Enes still has that capacity. There is no reason to think that, based on his rookie performance, he can't be the player we hoped he would be when we drafted him. He'll be 20 next year. There's nothing to see here. He's far more valuable to us than he is to anyone else, so a trade will never and would never happen. Nothing to see here.

1, Value of Kanter is not that low
2, 3 mid- late draft pick is no use for Jazz

Inigo Montoya wrote:

Luigi wrote:I think I'd take that deal.

I like the idea of three firsts more than developing Kanter right now.

So instead of developing ONE player, one of the strongest players in the league already and the 3rd overall pick, you would rather developing THREE players who were drafted in the 20s and have significantly lower ceilings?

Not to mention you already have two draft picks to make (Jazz+GS) and a young core already, who probably doesn't need to get any younger. By my count, that's FIVE rookies on top of the Jazz young core. Don't see a reason to do that.

Yes. I don't think we're going to make much progress with Kanter. I'd rather bet on the steady influx of more rookies. You talk about ceilings. We're starting to get a vague idea of Kanter's ceiling. I'd prefer three shots at first rounders. Throw a bunch against the wall and see who sticks.

Or, if you'd rather, remember that first round picks are a major factor in most big star trades. We need a focal point, and this could help us get one. Kanter isn't looking like much more than a future rotation player.

We don't have the young core that we think we do. People talk about the OKC model...our best prospect right now doesn't look like he will amount to something comparable to OKC's 3rd. I mean, even Ibaka looks out of reach. If we think we have all the potential we need right now, we're going to be disappointed in 2-3 years when none of them are making the all-star game. Kanter is looking like a bust, and that trade value looks like a good deal.

WAY too early to label Kanter a bust when everyone knew he was a project to begin with.

Would you guys do Derrick Williams for Enes Kanter+Future 1st?

guille_4 wrote:Would you guys do Derrick Williams for Enes Kanter+Future 1st?

I don't think it's realistic for the Jazz to add a sweetener in a Derrick Williams deal. Not like Williams played considerably better last year, and Kanter was always expected to be a long-term project.

Fido wrote:WAY too early to label Kanter a bust when everyone knew he was a project to begin with.

I'm not labeling him a bust. I was careful to say he's looking like one, and that I'd rather bet on the market (3 first rounders) than on him at this point.

So basically, a reverse Deron Williams trade?

How did the team that traded a #3 pick for 3 first rounders turn out in that case? And they even had a #6 overall to work with. With this we get... mid lottery at the highest? This is asinine

Wait a minute, are you comparing Williams to Kanter? Are we hoping that Kanter turns out to be as big a star as Williams has?

Luigi wrote:Wait a minute, are you comparing Williams to Kanter? Are we hoping that Kanter turns out to be as big a star as Williams has?

I'm just raising a comparison. A somewhat analogous situation. Besides, based on draft history we'd be lucky to get a player as good as Kanter is now from even 1 of the 3 mid to late first round picks.

No team in the league wants him, keep him

Mefisto wrote:No team in the league wants him, keep him

How'd your boy Big Val do in the Olympics eh? Haha. Bigger bust than Pamela A.

The only guys that get dealt for 3 first round picks are superstars. Kanter is young, which gives him value, but he needs to show a lot more before he'd be considered a truly desired player around the league.

The truth of what you think of him lies in the fact that you are willing to trade him already. He must not be very impressive to you.