Page 1 of 2
The Harden Deal
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:33 am
by Bullet
Simply put, Harden was traded for an expiring scorer, a promising young wing and draft picks.
Would you have traded Big Al, Alec Burks, the GSW 2013 pick and future picks for the beard?
Re: The Harden Deal
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:45 am
by Inigo Montoya
No. Harden is a good player but he is not worth the max. And being so not flexible, to refuse 54M when the max is 60M... He pretty much traded himself. From getting 54M in a perennial contender with a great future, to getting whatever in a rebuilding team...
Everybody loses. OKC is not as good. Lamb is not ready yet, Martin looks like a rental. The Mavs pick is top 20 protected through 2017. The Raps pick is only top 3 protected this year (and then top 2 and then not at all) but they are a playoff team this year or very close at least. OKC is not as good as it was, not sure they are the favorites to get to the finals, Harden will either sign a max deal with the Rockets until Oct 31 and cement his future in a rebuilding team, or he won't sign there and look elsewhere, but risks getting lower offers in the future, and as a starter on a losing team he may not command a max deal. Everybody lose.
Re: The Harden Deal
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:36 am
by StocktonShorts
Yes.
Re: The Harden Deal
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:48 am
by Pai Gow
I would have, but no way petri keeps him in the same division. I'm surprised he kept in in the West.
Re: The Harden Deal
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:41 am
by Inigo Montoya
He is going to find out life is harder as a starter, playing against better competition for a longer period of time. On a losing team as well, after playing for a championship. After this year (assuming he will get the max from the Rockets within the next 3 days) he may not look like he deserves the contract he got. And btw, 13M a year for him is also too much, I think he is a bit overrated. I don't know how he turned it down.
From the Jazz perspective, I don't want a long term 15M a year guy unless he is absolutely worth it. Harden is not.
Re: The Harden Deal
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:49 am
by Charlie_S
Yes, I would have, and I strongly dislike Harden.
Re: The Harden Deal
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:38 am
by UTJazzFan_Echo1
No, not if he wanted max money. Harden is Manu at best... I think he's one of the more overrated players in the league. He's going to be kicking himself for not signing that extension when his career is wasting away in Houston and OKC is putting up championship banners.
Re: The Harden Deal
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:40 am
by Neon Black
OKC are geniuses.
Re: The Harden Deal
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:15 pm
by nghedman
No, I wouldn't have done it.
But I don't understand the hate for Al Jefferson, the Jazzes #1 go to guy, on this forum. I don't think people understand how hard it is to find that guy that is a little bit better than the rest and can make a basket when everyone knows he is going to shoot the ball.
Re: The Harden Deal
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:23 pm
by Inigo Montoya
nghedman wrote:No, I wouldn't have done it.
But I don't understand the hate for Al Jefferson, the Jazzes #1 go to guy, on this forum. I don't think people understand how hard it is to find that guy that is a little bit better than the rest and can make a basket when everyone knows he is going to shoot the ball.
Amen
Re: The Harden Deal
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:21 pm
by StocktonShorts
UTJazzFan_Echo1 wrote:No, not if he wanted max money. Harden is Manu at best... I think he's one of the more overrated players in the league. He's going to be kicking himself for not signing that extension when his career is wasting away in Houston and OKC is putting up championship banners.
Manu has been one of the best backcourt players in the league and a key player on multiple championship teams. If he's Manu at best, that's pretty damn good IMO.
Re: The Harden Deal
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:29 pm
by QuantumMacgyver
StocktonShorts wrote:UTJazzFan_Echo1 wrote:No, not if he wanted max money. Harden is Manu at best... I think he's one of the more overrated players in the league. He's going to be kicking himself for not signing that extension when his career is wasting away in Houston and OKC is putting up championship banners.
Manu has been one of the best backcourt players in the league and a key player on multiple championship teams. If he's Manu at best, that's pretty damn good IMO.
Ditto.
Re: The Harden Deal
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:47 pm
by The59Sound
StocktonShorts wrote:Yes.
Re: The Harden Deal
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:08 pm
by StocktonShorts
This was exactly the type of opportunity I thought the Jazz had positioned themselves for. Now maybe they weren't in the running, but I think an offer of Millsap, Burks, GS pick and another future first would've been better than what Houston gave up and would've been fantastic for the Jazz.
It would've set up a future core of Harden, Favors, Kanter and Hayward.
Re: The Harden Deal
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:40 pm
by ColdBlue
I like Hardens game but I would pass. We need a true PG.
Re: The Harden Deal
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:49 pm
by QuantumMacgyver
Is Lawson next to be moved now that he has turned down the Nuggets extension. I believe teams only have until the end of the month to sign extensions, right?
Re: The Harden Deal
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:05 am
by UTJazzFan_Echo1
QuantumMacgyver wrote:StocktonShorts wrote:UTJazzFan_Echo1 wrote:No, not if he wanted max money. Harden is Manu at best... I think he's one of the more overrated players in the league. He's going to be kicking himself for not signing that extension when his career is wasting away in Houston and OKC is putting up championship banners.
Manu has been one of the best backcourt players in the league and a key player on multiple championship teams. If he's Manu at best, that's pretty damn good IMO.
Ditto.
He also had Tim Duncan and Tony Parker around him the whole time and came off the bench.... Manu never wins a championship as the #1 guy.
Re: The Harden Deal
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:10 am
by Bullet
nghedman wrote:No, I wouldn't have done it.
But I don't understand the hate for Al Jefferson, the Jazzes #1 go to guy, on this forum. I don't think people understand how hard it is to find that guy that is a little bit better than the rest and can make a basket when everyone knows he is going to shoot the ball.
Not hating on Al. I love the guy. And I'd actually want him to end his contract on the Jazz because of what he brings, his attitude and his willingness to mentor our bigs (esp. Kanter). But the thing is, with our four bigs, and the way the NBA game and economics are evolving, it seems like Al is the odd man out. IMO, Favors and Kanter can man the 5-spot, with Millsap primarily at the 4.
Also, Ty's new uptempo gameplan looks more tailored for an adequate ballhandler and average passer like Millsap.
Re: The Harden Deal
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:00 am
by erudite23
You would have to be insane not to do that deal for Harden. People don't understand exactly what he did last year.
66% TRUE SHOOTING
Let that sink in. The only player to EVER post that type of shooting efficiency while using that many possessions was Charles Barkley. That is rarified air. There are still a lot of questions surrounding him, but he's a pick and roll operator who can create off the dribble, spot up off the ball, facilitate offense, rebound, and defend. He's the total package (although he needs to focus more on D as he evolves) and is absolutely worth the max.
Is he the #1 on a championship team? Hard to say right now. Maybe. But if you don't flip Al, Burks, GS pick and future 1sts for him, you don't know NBA basketball. That is an no-brainer. I would personally be willing to give up more than that.
Re: The Harden Deal
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:21 pm
by nghedman
erudite23 wrote:You would have to be insane not to do that deal for Harden. People don't understand exactly what he did last year.
66% TRUE SHOOTING
Let that sink in. The only player to EVER post that type of shooting efficiency while using that many possessions was Charles Barkley. That is rarified air. There are still a lot of questions surrounding him, but he's a pick and roll operator who can create off the dribble, spot up off the ball, facilitate offense, rebound, and defend. He's the total package (although he needs to focus more on D as he evolves) and is absolutely worth the max.
Is he the #1 on a championship team? Hard to say right now. Maybe. But if you don't flip Al, Burks, GS pick and future 1sts for him, you don't know NBA basketball. That is an no-brainer. I would personally be willing to give up more than that.
I would trade Jefferson ONLY for Harden and that is a maybe. With all things being equal a center always gets the nod. It is just that much easier to find a guard with top notch skills over a center.
Don't forget that statistics go up when one is playing a bench role.