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Is to be able to see Mo, Hayward, Marvin, Favors and Jefferson start and play significant minutes together and Foye and Milsap head up the second unit, just to either prove I am right and that this should be the rotation, or that I am wrong and Corbin is not an idiot and that the team needs a major shake up in personnel.

SoCalJazzFan wrote:Is to be able to see Mo, Hayward, Marvin, Favors and Jefferson start and play significant minutes together and Foye and Milsap head up the second unit, just to either prove I am right and that this should be the rotation, or that I am wrong and Corbin is not an idiot and that the team needs a major shake up in personnel.

I'm on board with this.

The only thing that has made me mad about Corbin is the non play of Burks. Burks and Favors are two guys with the most upside on the roster. I get and actually agree with the signing of Foye... you make Burks earn it and you push the young fella but you don't give minutes to a guy like Carrol over Burks.

Don't get me wrong, I love Carrol and what he brings to the team but the league is full of players like Carrol who will dive on the floor at the drop of the hat to stay on a team and get a paycheck. Frankly, I think Carrol should have got the extension that Evans got... I like Evans but more in a mascot sort of way... meaning he is entertaining but if that $1.8 per ever becomes a reason not to keep a player we want or get a player we need because we are paying $1.8 to Evans I will throw up in my mouth.

Back to my point: Burks needs his time. There are 10-12 minutes a night for the 4th wing... right now Carrol is getting them. Give them to Burks and then let burks push Foyes down or Haywards down. I love both Hayward and Foye but I think Hayward has been given his time more than he has earned it. Let Burks get the run and if he starts to take Haywards minutes, Hayward will work harder and start to produce like he needs to.

One other point. Flash foward to midnight July 1st if you call the agent of Carrol and offer a take it or leave it 2 year minimum guarantee what do you think he will say?

YES in a heart beat.

My preference is to give Burks the run he needs to take away minutes from Foye or Hayward. If Burks earns more minutes all that can happen is good. If Haywards minutes go down, so will his $ per year money for his off season extension. (Conversly that is why I am okay with Favors coming off the bench the whole season I am hoping that we can re up Favors for 9-11 per for 4 after the season.)

If Burks blows up, then managment can have confidence not resigning one of either Marvin or Foye as I am sure Marvin will opt out. We only need a solid 3 man rotation at the bigs and wings. The 4th and 5th spots in the post and on the wing can be filled with guys like Carrol and Evans.

blackham9258 wrote: Frankly, I think Carrol should have got the extension that Evans got... I like Evans but more in a mascot sort of way...

Evans should be cheaper than the mascot - he doesn't require a trampoline.

Good one. I honestly like the kid and it has to make you smile to see a great kid get paid and taken care of for life if he is smart with his money. On the other hand I do wonder if it was a thing where he and Hayward were such good friends that it was good internal PR.

I have yet to see him add anything to his game that should earn an extension more than a year at a time. 3/$5.4M was a shock to me.

The other thing that this kind of money does is it makes it hard to sign Carrol for anything less than that. Think about it, he is getting tons of PT and is playing well and is making $800K and Evans is making 1.8M and not seeing the court. How can management really go to Carrol and ask him to play for the minimum. They should but they won't. I expect them to pay Carrol $2M per, so now we have close to $4M a year to guys who you need to have, maybe even want to have but they should be players 11, and 12 on your roster making minimum deals.

And what if you need that $2M in cap space to get the player you want this off season or whenever..... OUCH!

blackham9258 wrote:The only thing that has made me mad about Corbin is the non play of Burks. Burks and Favors are two guys with the most upside on the roster. I get and actually agree with the signing of Foye... you make Burks earn it and you push the young fella but you don't give minutes to a guy like Carrol over Burks.

Don't get me wrong, I love Carrol and what he brings to the team but the league is full of players like Carrol who will dive on the floor at the drop of the hat to stay on a team and get a paycheck. Frankly, I think Carrol should have got the extension that Evans got... I like Evans but more in a mascot sort of way... meaning he is entertaining but if that $1.8 per ever becomes a reason not to keep a player we want or get a player we need because we are paying $1.8 to Evans I will throw up in my mouth.

Back to my point: Burks needs his time. There are 10-12 minutes a night for the 4th wing... right now Carrol is getting them. Give them to Burks and then let burks push Foyes down or Haywards down. I love both Hayward and Foye but I think Hayward has been given his time more than he has earned it. Let Burks get the run and if he starts to take Haywards minutes, Hayward will work harder and start to produce like he needs to.

I really couldn't agree with you less. Carrol should be getting more minutes than anyone on the roster right now because he is playing harder than anyone on the roster right now. Carrol is third on the team in PER this year, behind Al and Favors. He is the prime example of your "earn the minutes" theory.

With the injury to Marivn, it is clear that Burks wasn't getting time because he wasn't producing over the others. If Burks wants minutes, he needs to earn them. This is his chance, and if he continues to play the way he did the other night then he might find some more minutes.

And I'm not so sure Marvin is going to opt-out on $8 million. No way he gets that kinda money on a new deal.

SoCal - yes, yes, yes!! I want to see that exact lineup as well.
Blackham, I agree with you on Burks. Carroll has been awesome, but at the end of the day, he's just a hustling scrub. He's the type of player that Sloan would have fallen in love with and played way too much. (ie - Harp, and Adam Keefe) Will he help you win some games? Yes. Will you win a title with a guy like Carroll getting significant minutes? Doubt it. Hustle alone can only take you so far. There's a big difference between superior talent and superior effort. Ideally, you want both, but you can't teach talent (at least not at this stage of a career.

russnumber3 wrote:SoCal - yes, yes, yes!! I want to see that exact lineup as well.
Blackham, I agree with you on Burks. Carroll has been awesome, but at the end of the day, he's just a hustling scrub. He's the type of player that Sloan would have fallen in love with and played way too much. (ie - Harp, and Adam Keefe) Will he help you win some games? Yes. Will you win a title with a guy like Carroll getting significant minutes? Doubt it. Hustle alone can only take you so far. There's a big difference between superior talent and superior effort. Ideally, you want both, but you can't teach talent (at least not at this stage of a career.

I strongly disagree. Carroll sets the tone for this team. Imagine if Big Al played with the fire that Carroll does. You need guys who are going to do the little things. OKC has it in Thabo. MIami has it in Battier. Spurs with Bowen.

And the championship talk seems premature. I don't think the Jazz can win a title with anyone currently on their roster being their best player, even if they all reach their ceilings. Favors is going to be good, probably great, but his ceiling seems closer to Ibaka than Dwight. Which I would gladly take, but you can't win a championship with even Ibaka as your best player. If the Jazz ever hope to win a championship, it will most likely be in the mold of the Pistons, not the Thunder/Heat/Celtics etc.

Talent won't bring the Jazz success. It's gonna have to be hard workers and team play, coupled with great coaching. All of which seem incredibly lacking with our current group.

While I agree with some of you that Hayward hasn't necessarily deserved his minutes at times this year, I would put him in the starting lineup primarily due to his energy and hustle and the fact that he can handle the ball pretty well and be used to either dish to Big Al on the block or to Mo or Marvin for jumpshots.

Marvin and Favors are mainly part of the starting core for defensive purposes, although each has the ability to contribute on offense as well.

With either Tinsley or Watson, Foye and Milsap will be the primary offensive players of the second unit, with Carroll being a defensive presence and Kanter the rebounder.

As the 5th wing, Burks is in a tight spot. He mainly comes in when someone else is injured or off for the night. Hopefully, Corbin can find him some minutes as I do like his potential a lot. I still have no idea what role a now overpaid Evans plays.

Problem with Burks is that he has that occasional good game when he gets an opportunity, but too often he looks lost out there and really doesn't contribute. He has the makings of a very good player, but he's not ready yet. Kanter was also playing pretty bad at times in the start of the season, but is coming along nicely the last week or so. Favors is clearly our second best big right now.

I want this rotation:

A.Jefferson/Kanter
Favors/Millsap/Evans
Ma.Williams/Carroll
Foye/Hayward/Burks
Mo Williams/Watson/Tinsley

Hayward plays great off the bench, and Foye is playing very good as a start, the fix it if it's not broken. Millsap is struggling, Favors is shinning, time to make Millsap fight for his spot back, put him on the bench. Evans is slowly but surely becoming a good player, hope he starts to get more minutes, because he's our future backup PF when Millsap and/or Jefferson are gone.