Alec Burks as a PG

[blackham9258]

Can he really do it? Is this the position he will latch onto in this league and thrive. I would love to see it, I am just beginning to have my doubts that he will ever be an effective shooter in the league, but I think playing with Hayward and hopefully a future drafted SF we will be long and effective with Burks at the point.

I would like to see the coaches tell him to let loose a little bit... He has only really taken it to the hole 2 or three times from the point... I think up to this point he has tried to limit mistakes which has made him tentative. Hopefully against Sacramento he can bust out and start to realize the kind of plays he is capable of. I also think he has lost a lot of confidence.

I would actually like to see Watson out for a few games as well as Hayward to see this experiment through a couple games so that Burks can have a breakout game and find his confidence. I wonder if he has a couple big games if it might not just click in... heaven knows he has the talent... sometimes its just the confidence that needs to come with some success to realize it.

Thoughts?

[HolyToledo12]

You can definitely tell he is not a starting PG in the NBA. He is a 3rd guard who can play back up PG. The Jazz need to find their future PG soon!

[Inigo Montoya]

burks doesn't get to play his game with the jazz. as a PG (and actually at any position until now), he is asked to make entry passes, or dribble behind the 3pt line in the middle and then make a wide pass. he is a slasher who is not allowed to slash. he is a north to south player asked to execute a system that plays east to west. all of his advantages are negated in this system. i think he can be a very good player but has to be allowed to play his style.

right now he does what he needs to in order to get time on the court - he executes the offense and plays within the system but in doing so he just looks like another unremarkable player, when he can be ELECTRIC. i'm also not that worried about his shot because when he gets good looks he usually makes them. if he's allowed more freedom and gain more confidence his FG% will be much better. he needs to learn where to find quality shots within the offense, but also be allowed to be who he is, and more importantly, he MUST get consistent playing time. it is not surprising his FG% is what it is when he doens't even know when he will get his low amount of sporadic minutes.

and btw - i hope that everyone is watching what bledsoe is doing as a full time PG in paul's absence. is everyone still high on him as a starter?

[nguyenbalong]

He should be more like what parker is to the spurs. Dribble penetration take a shot when its there or pass to the open man when he gets doubled. Not saying Burks is Parker I just think he would be effective in that style of play.

[Inigo Montoya]

the irony is that we all were upset with CJ that he was chucking perimeter shots instead of going to the paint and getting to the line, and now that we have a player who is very good at penetrating and getting to the line the jazz don't let him do that and seem content in letting him roam around the 3pt line.

[Neon Black]

and btw - i hope that everyone is watching what bledsoe is doing as a full time PG in paul's absence. is everyone still high on him as a starter?

So I've always been intrigued by Bledsoe's potential but never completely sold, yet I think it's kind of silly that people are turning on him so quickly. I think people had these astronomical expectations for him as soon as he got starter minutes when it may take some time. His 23 pt, 10 ast 7 reb game vs. Boston yesterday was pretty fierce.

As for Burks as a starter, I'm not ready to completely write him off as a PG like Toledo, nor am I convinced he can do it. I agree with most of you that he seems much more tentative and restricted, and that the style of play that would allow him to flourish isn't necessarily the one employed by the Jazz. He needs to have some slack cut for him as he works through his mistakes without the fear of being immediately benched.

[Inigo Montoya]

So I've always been intrigued by Bledsoe's potential but never completely sold, yet I think it's kind of silly that people are turning on him so quickly. I think people had these astronomical expectations for him as soon as he got starter minutes when it may take some time. His 23 pt, 10 ast 7 reb game vs. Boston yesterday was pretty fierce.

until now, a performance such as the one against boston (which ended in a loss, btw) is the exception and not the rule though. since he's starting he scores 13 points at a 37% FG clip (almost exclusively all of his points come from the paint), with 5 rebounds, 5.7 assists, 2 steals and 2 turnovers in 35 minutes. he hasn't impressed me, and more importantly, his team - probably the deepest and most talented in the league - is losing, with a 2W-5L record. i'm not one of those who quickly turned on him because i'm one of those who never liked him for the jazz as a PG in the first place. especially not as a PG who should run a team. he's a good player, don't get me wrong, but i wouldn't want him to run my team. he can run someone else's team as a full time starter though. we'll see how far they'll go.

As for Burks as a starter, I'm not ready to completely write him off as a PG like Toledo, nor am I convinced he can do it. I agree with most of you that he seems much more tentative and restricted, and that the style of play that would allow him to flourish isn't necessarily the one employed by the Jazz. He needs to have some slack cut for him as he works through his mistakes without the fear of being immediately benched.

i completely agree.

[reapaman]

Burks is a sg with playmaking abilties. I think people look at westbrook, rose and parker then say "well burks can do what they do" but its not that simple. Right now tho, Burks is basically in the same situation oj mayo was with the grizzlies and like them, we are not set up for burks to play his game. He needs a team thats gonna have him as the focal point (dominate the ball) whether its as a starter or off the bench and we are not it. This was never the right situation for him and we will likely see him trive elsewhere ala mayo or for a different example, harden who trived as the focal point off the bench in OKC as well as being the focal point as a starter in Houston.

As for bledsoe, I think he could develop to be a good game manager but thats gonna take a few years and his value is way too high right now to justify getting him. But forget bledsoe, the FO needs to not waste any time and get the doubt out of their heads and get Kendall marshall now before his value gets to high.. Phoenix is starting to unleash the beast and I saw him play the last two games .... This guy is serious. His numbers are not that good in the two games but the effect he had on the team was great. He played so well that the coach end up playing him with dragic for a while during the second game just to get him more time (or mabey it was shannon brown being utter crap, I dont know). Either way, once this guy gets comfortable the haters will shut up and that d-league stint will be forgotten.

[Inigo Montoya]

i don't think anybody here is deluding themselves to think burks is a PG. he can spend a few minutes at that spot in a pinch like has has been doing, but he is a SG first and foremost. i really hope that after this season the jazz will make a big roster change and build a roster that can play suffocating defense, because we have some of the personnel to do it already, and burks fit into that as well. i think favors, kanter, hayward and burks (and probably the relatively soon to be opted in marvin) is a good start. i wouldn't mind us playing average and less efficient offense as long as our defense is good. i think with that core playing more minutes, burks could find a good role in this team. i really want to see an athletic team that attacks the basket and relies more on defense as a way to initiate a faster paced game through transition.

[StocktonShorts]

He should be more like what parker is to the spurs. Dribble penetration take a shot when its there or pass to the open man when he gets doubled. Not saying Burks is Parker I just think he would be effective in that style of play.

I was going to post the same thing.

[OldJazzBones]

When AB came out of coll I liked him a lot. Thought he was exactly what the Jazz
Needed. He played OK for a rook then was banished. 34 yrs watching the Jazz
I've seen this again and again. Draft what is needed then try to change them to fit.
To be fair if Burks had Kanters work ethic he could tear it up. It seems like he struggles
with thinking he's already good enough and being yelled at for doing what we drafted him for-
getting to the rim. I don't know if it matters what pos he plays, we may have seen his
best- as a Jazz player at least.

[SoCalJazzFan]

I probably don't watch as many games as many of you, but from what I have seen is that Burks has a great knack for bringing the ball up the court or to the rim at 100mph. However, he is typically not looking to pass, but rather his own dunk or layup. Moreover, oddly, his handle is suspect when he has to slow down and dribble around the perimeter in order to set up a play.

He isn't a pure point guard, and due to the fact that his shooting is horrible he isn't a shooting/scoring point either. In fact, if he doesn't dramatically improve his shooting by next year we might want to start referring to the core as the C3 (unless we draft that franchise PG in June).

[Inigo Montoya]

C4 sounds better. more...explosive...

[KDBG]

Can he really do it? Is this the position he will latch onto in this league and thrive. I would love to see it, I am just beginning to have my doubts that he will ever be an effective shooter in the league, but I think playing with Hayward and hopefully a future drafted SF we will be long and effective with Burks at the point.

I would like to see the coaches tell him to let loose a little bit... He has only really taken it to the hole 2 or three times from the point... I think up to this point he has tried to limit mistakes which has made him tentative. Hopefully against Sacramento he can bust out and start to realize the kind of plays he is capable of. I also think he has lost a lot of confidence.

I would actually like to see Watson out for a few games as well as Hayward to see this experiment through a couple games so that Burks can have a breakout game and find his confidence. I wonder if he has a couple big games if it might not just click in... heaven knows he has the talent... sometimes its just the confidence that needs to come with some success to realize it.

Thoughts?

I was just going to make a thread about this after tonights game...

Tonight is the 1st game this season where Burks looked comfortable and natural for at least the majority of the game. His handles looked a ton better (which looked like the way he handled the ball in summer league), his shot looked more smooth, and he was finally playing with that cocky swagger that's been missing from his game for pretty much the whole season.

I've always been a supporter of Burks playing the point. His skill-set for today's NBA makes him quite a good fit at that position. Great first step, athletic, can get to the rim and to the free throw line, decent court vision, and that swagger. I will admit, the last couple of games I actually started to doubt that maybe Burks just wasn't ever going to be comfortable in that role. It just looked downright awkward for him at times playing point guard. But that's why it's so damn important to let the young guys play through their mistakes, and grow on the court, not on the bench.

And no, I'm one of the very few that doesn't put all the blame on Corbin for this. He can get some blame, but most of this goes on the front office. A third year coach usually isn't going to bench two guys making 15 million and 8 million a year. Have you seen how much drama is surrounding the Lakers for having Pau being benched by D'Antoni? The front office should have traded our veterans a long time ago for future picks and trade exceptions. If that happened, we probably would have missed the playoffs last year, and maybe lost another game to the Warriors which would have allowed us to get around probably the 12th and the 8th pick. Those could have been easily packaged to trade up for Lillard, in my opinion. Instead we get our asses kicked four games in a row by San Antonio. Ugh...

But back to Burks, if he can mold himself into a Westbrook type of point guard, I would love us to find a way to trade for or draft a long, athletic small forward who plays good D and hits open shots. Word on the street is that the Jazz's head scout was at the T-Wolves/Hornets game the other night. Maybe looking at Derrick Williams or Aminu?... Could you imagine the mismatches we would create with a young, long, and athletic lineup?

Burks 6'6"
Hayward 6'8"
Aminu/D-Will 6'9"
Favors 6'10"
Kanter 6'11"

[Nate505]

He's infinitely better than Watson. Can't remember the last time Waston has scored over 10 points a game. Yet when Watson is healthy Burks will go right back to the doghouse, because of Ty's totally irrational love with the vets.

[Nate505]

And no, I'm one of the very few that doesn't put all the blame on Corbin for this. He can get some blame, but most of this goes on the front office. A third year coach usually isn't going to bench two guys making 15 million and 8 million a year. Have you seen how much drama is surrounding the Lakers for having Pau being benched by D'Antoni?

A valid argument for Kanter/Favors, even though I disagree (hardly any Jazz fans are going to care that the future, aka two #3 picks in the draft, are getting more minutes). A totally invalid argument for Burks, who would be playing over two ancient PGs.

[KDBG]

And no, I'm one of the very few that doesn't put all the blame on Corbin for this. He can get some blame, but most of this goes on the front office. A third year coach usually isn't going to bench two guys making 15 million and 8 million a year. Have you seen how much drama is surrounding the Lakers for having Pau being benched by D'Antoni?

A valid argument for Kanter/Favors, even though I disagree (hardly any Jazz fans are going to care that the future, aka two #3 picks in the draft, are getting more minutes). A totally invalid argument for Burks, who would be playing over two ancient PGs.

I see your point, Burks should be starting over those two. It's D-Will sitting behind McBrick and Palacio all over again. But it's really no different than the Kanter/Favors situation. Yeah, the millions of dollars aren't involved, but it's another awkward situation where you have too sucky "true" point guards, and a young guy oozing with talent that's played point guard only sporadically. Don't get me wrong, I'd love it if all four of the youngins started. Especially Favors, who deserves 34+ minutes a game. I'm just trying to make the point that Corbin has his hands tied more than some people realize. Most third year coaches aren't going to have the balls to do what they truly want to do. They'd rather stick with the status quo. That's unfortunate, but that's life in the professional world.

I work as an actor as my profession, (no, I'm not even close to being rich and famous) and it's a known fact that casting directors would much rather go the safe route, and cast an experienced actor over an inexperienced actor who is obviously more talented and who is better for the part. The casting directors jobs are on the line. This is even more true with the bigger budget productions. That's the point I'm trying to make with Corbin. HIs job and livelihood are on the line. I don't blame him one bit for thinking of his family and himself first, before the fans.

That's why I would compare the front office to the production team in filmmaking. It all starts up top. I would put most of the blame on the producer for not putting the casting directors, directors, actors, etc. in the best position to succeed. Let them know they have the freedom to do what they want, and that they're jobs are safe. And so what if the casting directors, directors, actors, ect. just aren't very talented? Well, we won't know that until the producer does his job adequately.

The front office needs to infuse a sense of urgency in this damn organization. We've played it safe for waaaaay too long. And they are too loyal at times. After the 2007 playoffs, with D-Will and Booz dominating, both putting up 20/10, it was pretty apparent that we needed an outside shooter and a defensive presence in the middle. Okur and AK should have been traded for those pieces. Instead they sat on their hands because they were too damn loyal to that core to take any risks. Imagine the difference if we would have had a Tyson Chandler type player and a Kevin Martin type in place of Okur and AK? We would have seen much more success from that core. Imagine if we would have traded Booz towards the end of his tenure here when he was causing tension with his contract situation, and Millsap patiently waiting for his time to shine? That's why I blame KOC and co. for this dilemma for the most part, not Corbin. If they have better communication with Corbin, and put him in a position to succeed, and THEN Corbin falls flat on his face, then yeah, go ahead and replace him. Do you see my point?

[slcjosh]

The problem with burks is that hes not really a point guard. He is not good at playing with out the ball at least not yet. Either way, he is not comfortable in the jazz system. he turned the ball over 4 times last night playing back up pg minutes. 4. thats very high considering he wasnt playing the heat, the thunder, the spurs, he was playing the KINGS. the kings are not good at all and the pressure they through at him caused him to cough the ball up 4 times. I think they need to do something to play a little more to his strengths, but he also needs to learn how to get open and move with out the ball on offense. If he he could tweak his game a little to become a guy with the ability to play some pg, but mostly a 2 guard who can get to the rim AND also set, come off screens and curls to get open looks and continue to attack the rim, he will find himself getting more minutes.

He rebounds well, he is an athletic freak. He will figure it out. Despite the turnovers, last nights game was a good game for Alec, and he played some crucial minutes for his development.

I really think that if he can adjust his game slightly, cut harder, look for backdoors, and really look to get open off screens and curls, he will become a fantastic player. hes got all the tools. If he cut hard after dumping the ball into the post, he would get two layups a game just off that, hes just too quick and athletic to not get the ball back in his hands, its just that initial adjustment.

[slcjosh]

[/quote] Instead they sat on their hands because they were too damn loyal to that core to take any risks. Imagine the difference if we would have had a Tyson Chandler type player and a Kevin Martin type in place of Okur and AK? We would have seen much more success from that core. Imagine if we would have traded Booz towards the end of his tenure here when he was causing tension with his contract situation, and Millsap patiently waiting for his time to shine? That's why I blame KOC and co. for this dilemma for the most part, not Corbin. If they have better communication with Corbin, and put him in a position to succeed, and THEN Corbin falls flat on his face, then yeah, go ahead and replace him. Do you see my point?[/quote]

I see your point, but the other aspect you have to look at is who says they didnt try to go out and get those pieces? maybe other teams though, meh we dont need a 6'11 turk who shoots threes and kinda rebounds, and we dont need and overpaid power forward who plays 50 games a year due to injury, drops nuts when gets to the playoffs is completely bitchmade.

You cant say they were too loyal because first of all, you really have no idea went on in the offices of those guys, maybe they tried to make a deal and everyone tried to short change them. Once again, making a deal for the sake of making a deal is not always going to result in a favorable situation for your franchise.

You cant also forget that KOC and co's true loyalties lie to the franchise. They traded a super star point guard out of the blue seemingly, because they knew he wouldn't resign and the rebuilding had to start immediately. KOC traded for Derrick favors, Devin Harris, and another 1st round draft pick. we ended up sucking up the rest of that season, getting another lottery pick, a potential star and a serviceable point guard who quite frankly put the jazz on his back last season and helped them win games down the stretch to make the playoffs.

So rather than remaining loyal to Deron and offering him a max deal, they showed him the door and got Enes Kanter, Alec Burks, Derick Favors (who you are all so in love with and im excited for as well) and Harris. They then turned around and said to Devin "heres a plane ticket bruh, you're headed to atlanta." and we got Marvin Williams, got involved in a three team deal to help sign Mo Williams (all of these moves addressing our biggest issue of outside shooting) and have put a pretty solid team on the floor.

You cant just accuse the brass of being too loyal to make moves, they are looking for a specific mixture of players and personality to maximize the potential of the franchise, all while making the smartest move for the franchise.

[slcjosh]

And dont get me wrong im not trying to say anyone is wrong, im just proposing another side of the discussion. Im guilty of it too im constantly playing with the trade machine trying to trade for premiere players. But what you have to address to is why would the other franchise do that? what would they realistically want for that player our team desires. In that case, the other gm might ask for too much, or ask you to take on too much salary and it would conflict with your long term plans. there are a million different angles they have to think through, and thats why there are only 30 gms in the world that do what they do.