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I watched the game yesterday with the Clippers announcers. Maybe everyone did, not sure. I do find it interesting to get informed, non-biased opinions of the Jazz.

I found it very interesting how critical they were that the Jazz didn'y move Al or Sap before the trade deadline.

I also found it interesting that although they believe that the "core 4" are good/solid players, they don't think that they are a firm foundation for a championship team as they don't believe that any of them are of the caliber of an all-star or superstar needed to become a championship caliber team. Rather, Utah would have to trade for or sign such a player(s) and that the core 4 would be a great supporting cast to make a championship caliber team. Maybe we are too high on GH and DF.

SoCalJazzFan wrote:I watched the game yesterday with the Clippers announcers. Maybe everyone did, not sure. I do find it interesting to get informed, non-biased opinions of the Jazz.

I found it very interesting how critical they were that the Jazz didn'y move Al or Sap before the trade deadline.

I also found it interesting that although they believe that the "core 4" are good/solid players, they don't think that they are a firm foundation for a championship team as they don't believe that any of them are of the caliber of an all-star or superstar needed to become a championship caliber team. Rather, Utah would have to trade for or sign such a player(s) and that the core 4 would be a great supporting cast to make a championship caliber team. Maybe we are too high on GH and DF.

That's how I view them.

I pretty much agree with Clipper's announcers too.
It sounds kind of hard to put a ceiling of "supporting cast" on Favors but the young man doesn't really seem to incorporate the stuff that makes a real stud PF; actually MHO is that he appears to be better served as an athletic center.
Too early to take a real shot on Kanter's future, it will depend on how well and hoow consistently he evolves in his pick and pop abilities; if he can consistently play the pick and pop game he could be better than Favors.
Burks have what the others don't have: the attitude; we'll see what happens when play consistent minutes for a long period of time.
Hayward has all the tools to be a stud but dude's just too nice of a guy...

I too watched the Clipper cast and didn't think they were unfair, but just trading to trade when they can still do sign and trades isn't right either.

SoCalJazzFan wrote:I watched the game yesterday with the Clippers announcers. Maybe everyone did, not sure. I do find it interesting to get informed, non-biased opinions of the Jazz.

I found it very interesting how critical they were that the Jazz didn'y move Al or Sap before the trade deadline.

I also found it interesting that although they believe that the "core 4" are good/solid players, they don't think that they are a firm foundation for a championship team as they don't believe that any of them are of the caliber of an all-star or superstar needed to become a championship caliber team. Rather, Utah would have to trade for or sign such a player(s) and that the core 4 would be a great supporting cast to make a championship caliber team. Maybe we are too high on GH and DF.

while its true that other team's announcers can be considered unbiased, they are also usually uninformed about other teams since they don't watch them as much. this leaves them with a skewed image of other teams even if they are unbiased.

everyone find it hard to believe the jazz didn't move al or sap, but we all saw what deals were actually out there who did get made, which was nothing special. so while we all wanted change and movement on that front, i can definitely see why neither al or sap were moved - most likely the offers weren't that good.

a better criticism may be that the jazz should have moved at least one of them last year on last draft, but we all saw the rumors back then too, that millsap was available, yet there was no deal done. so either al and millsap's value isn't that great, or that the jazz were asking too much, and\or the jazz FO is not great at negotiating.

Inigo Montoya wrote:everyone find it hard to believe the jazz didn't move al or sap, but we all saw what deals were actually out there who did get made, which was nothing special. so while we all wanted change and movement on that front, i can definitely see why neither al or sap were moved - most likely the offers weren't that good.

a better criticism may be that the jazz should have moved at least one of them last year on last draft, but we all saw the rumors back then too, that millsap was available, yet there was no deal done. so either al and millsap's value isn't that great, or that the jazz were asking too much, and\or the jazz FO is not great at negotiating.

It could be that if KOC posted all of the trade offers the Jazz received on this site that we'd be relieved the Jazz didn't pull the trigger on them. On the other hand we could all be mystified as to why the Jazz didn't do a deal. We just don't know what the offers were. All we have is the assurances from KOC and Lindsey that the best move was not to make a move -- well duh, clearly they think that or they would've made a trade.

Also: there were a lot of people confused that the Clippers didn't make a trade, either.

StocktonShorts wrote:

Inigo Montoya wrote:everyone find it hard to believe the jazz didn't move al or sap, but we all saw what deals were actually out there who did get made, which was nothing special. so while we all wanted change and movement on that front, i can definitely see why neither al or sap were moved - most likely the offers weren't that good.

a better criticism may be that the jazz should have moved at least one of them last year on last draft, but we all saw the rumors back then too, that millsap was available, yet there was no deal done. so either al and millsap's value isn't that great, or that the jazz were asking too much, and\or the jazz FO is not great at negotiating.

It could be that if KOC posted all of the trade offers the Jazz received on this site that we'd be relieved the Jazz didn't pull the trigger on them. On the other hand we could all be mystified as to why the Jazz didn't do a deal. We just don't know what the offers were. All we have is the assurances from KOC and Lindsey that the best move was not to make a move -- well duh, clearly they think that or they would've made a trade.

that's fair. one of the most frustrating things about being a jazz fan is that we have no idea what is going on, what is the plan and we are basically rudderless. all we have is randy rigby's propaganda - where everything is always great and sunny and exciting - and the other FO company line which is always about the future, without letting us fans know what the plan.

but i don't think that we'll all be mystified as to offers the jazz rejected, especially after seeing what an uneventful deadline this was and how minor and underwhelming were the deals that got made. even the rumored deals that didn't happen weren't anything special.- KOC is many things but he's not stupid or a sucker.

I was going to say the same thing as Inigo. Unbiased can also mean uninformed. I have heard national "experts" say things about the Jazz team that are completely moronic and off base.

I can't remember who 1280 had on the other day but he was a national guy that said he doesn't think that the Jazz currently have any multiple time all-stars on the roster right now. He said that the core 4 won't make any multiple all-star games over the next 5 years or so, which I kind of agree with him.

I think we have some really nice pieces but like what was said in the other thread, we have nice 2 and 3 options but no superstars. You aren't a real contender without one or two superstars these days, even if you follow the Piston's model, which we are trying to do.

I agree with this completely, the Jazz really really needed to move one of their bigs before the deadline, even if it wasn't for as much value as they'd like. The reality of it is that they can't afford to sign Big Al to a max deal and give Milsap 9-10 mill a year too with two other quality bigs on their roster. What they should have done is try to move Sap for JJ Redick and a draft pick, or any combo of shooters/picks because now they are likely to lose one or both of their starting big men for absolutely nothing and before someone chimes in with "but if dey walk den we will have allllll dis cap space to sign a supahstar!" and I'm not saying that it's impossible but it's very unlikely, small market teams that are one and done in the playoffs every year aren't going to draw in big FA's. So now the choices are: a sign and trade which is probably the smartest move left on the table, overpaying a few mid level players to come to Utah(most likely scenario), or to pull a Mavs and go for broke going after CP3 or D12 and come up empty. As an unbiased non Jazz loving or hating basketball fan it really seems like the Jazz whiffed on this one.

A-Zero wrote:I agree with this completely, the Jazz really really needed to move one of their bigs before the deadline, even if it wasn't for as much value as they'd like. The reality of it is that they can't afford to sign Big Al to a max deal and give Milsap 9-10 mill a year too with two other quality bigs on their roster. What they should have done is try to move Sap for JJ Redick and a draft pick, or any combo of shooters/picks because now they are likely to lose one or both of their starting big men for absolutely nothing and before someone chimes in with "but if dey walk den we will have allllll dis cap space to sign a supahstar!" and I'm not saying that it's impossible but it's very unlikely, small market teams that are one and done in the playoffs every year aren't going to draw in big FA's. So now the choices are: a sign and trade which is probably the smartest move left on the table, overpaying a few mid level players to come to Utah(most likely scenario), or to pull a Mavs and go for broke going after CP3 or D12 and come up empty. As an unbiased non Jazz loving or hating basketball fan it really seems like the Jazz whiffed on this one.

As Jazz fans we're well aware of the difficulty in attracting star-caliber players.

I really have a hard time believing there were any worthwhile offers on the table. I'm sure the Jazz got plenty of offers to take on humongous contracts with several years left on them. That would have been a mistake. The only offers I would have gotten behind are for young, promising players or high draft picks, but when I put myself in the position of almost any other team I just don't see myself giving those assets up for half a year of Millsap or Jefferson. I don't think the Jazz whiffed it, but all we can do is speculate.

As for the potential of the "core 4", have they really received the kind of minutes to really determine their ceiling? While we definitely have yet to see that ANY of them can be an all-star caliber guy, I think there's still some hope. At worst, they are the foundation of a very, very solid and complete team that's only missing that one star player that can lead and carry them....not that that guy is easily obtained.

I also look at Jazz like that. I question all their mistakes, but enjoy what they have...like everyone else. I just think everyone else didn't say much cause they want jazz to continue to be medioacre cause it keeps it easier on the other teams.

By not trading means, no one took our offers, or we didn't take anyone elses offers, or we didn't even ask anything for them!?! I mean why did we not even trade Bell?? IDK, were in the same old rut and haven't progress further, and its like were content with just kind of winning.

I think not just us Jazz fans, wonder why were not up there in the top caliber teams with such an awesome team equal to Denver, yet were barley on the cusp of being winners and only lucky that MIN, LAL, and DAL were injured, or else we could be 10 or 12th.

We are seriously 1 all star away from being the next big team, if we would get some nice drafts this year and sign some hot vet's, we might finally move up in the ranks, and no longer be joked about behind closed doors.

Lindsey said what the plan was. The FO wanted to compete in the playoffs and go as far as they can while maintaining the team's current flexability. Its super difficult to trade Al or Sap and achieve both of those goals so there was almost no chance they were gonna make a trade. He also said if the team performs really well down the stretch then they will look towards building on what we have (meaning keeping some of our vets). If they dissapoint then they will react to that by making changes (although he conveniently didn't say anything about a youth movement if they were to dissapoint which is very telling imo).

I know people want more and wish the team would do somthing but the sad reality is this team has always been and probley always be way to conservative. With that said, how do you afford the supporting 4 and a star while filling out the rest of the roster? Thats assumes other vets like Jefferson don't resign which is a very likely possibility.