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we always look to the relatively near future, and want things to happen now. could the jazz's FO formulated a plan about two years ago for two years from now? they obviously know what we know, and much more.

is it possible they planned for us to suck next season, that has a strong draft, while preserving cap space for a very strong free agency period at that very same year?

just a thought.

Inigo Montoya wrote:we always look to the relatively near future, and want things to happen now. could the jazz's FO formulated a plan about two years ago for two years from now? they obviously know what we know, and much more.

is it possible they planned for us to suck next season, that has a strong draft, while preserving cap space for a very strong free agency period at that very same year?

just a thought.

Except that the Jazz can't really afford to "suck next year." The ownership has made it clear that they need the team to be competetive and make the playoffs, for financial reasons......

the millers also showed they are willing to pay the luxury tax when it is warranted. so maybe they'll look at it like paying luxury tax - meaning they are will be willing to sacrifice revenues of (probably) two extra home games for the future success of the franchise. under that scenario, the revenue sharing they'll get if they stay under the luxury tax will surely make it a much easier pill to swallow.

so as long as you don't pay the luxury tax, they can afford to lose revenues of two extra home games, when the benefits are:

1. money from revenue sharing

2. maybe save a bit of extra money by paying as close to the salary floor as possible (90% of the cap next year) to offset the lost revenues from two extra home games.

3. a high lottery pick in a very strong draft - which gives them the chance to be a serious playoff team for the future, and thus paying in spades for the "investment" of forgoing revenues of two extra home games.

4. a lot of cap space to spend on a stacked free agency class, giving the jazz much better odds of landing a high caliber free agent - which gives them the chance to be a serious playoff team for the future, and thus paying in spades for the "investment" of forgoing revenues of two extra home games.


this may actually be the way to build something close to a contender.

If our young players aren't busts, we'll be too good to get a top 5 pick next year. Rookies and 2nd year players can be easy to tank with, 4th and 3rd year players aren't unless they're huge disappointments.

Jazzfan12 wrote:If our young players aren't busts, we'll be too good to get a top 5 pick next year. Rookies and 2nd year players can be easy to tank with, 4th and 3rd year players aren't unless they're huge disappointments.

i get your point, but i think it is a situational thing. i don't consider demarcus cousins a huge disappointment, nor tyreke evans or thomas robinson. yet the kings are bad every year, and DMC and evans are 3rd and 4th year players.

it's not only those 3rd and 4th year players, it's the entire roster that makes the team bad. the hornets are bad with vasquez, gordon and lopez. the sixers are bad with an allstar in holliday and turner, the wizards suck with wall, the raptors suck with derozan, the pistons suck with monroe and knight, the cavs suck with thompson + and allstar irving, and of course there's the bobcats.

each team has its own circumstances and reason for being bad, but young teams usually lose in this league, especially if you "build them right". it doesn't mean their young players are disappointments. OKC lost quite a bit even with durant and westbrook. the cavs have a 2nd year prodigy allstar and his team still blows.

If you consider that between the Millers, KOC, Dennis Lindsey and Ty Corbin there is literally 10's of millions of dollars to be won or lost based solely on how the team performs, it's safe to say the FO has likely put more thought into the Jazz long term plans than any of us on RealGM have.

Honestly, successful teams, which clearly the Jazz have been for several decades, are run like a well oiled machine. The Jazz have a plan set out for the organization, and then dozens and dozens of contingency plans based on anything that comes their way from trades, to free agency to injury etc.

The main oversight we may have however is that our #1 goal is to see the team win a ring, the Miller's #1 goal is to keep the team financially viable, protect the entire MIller Organization's image, and then look for a way to make a deep playoff run.

I think many Jazz fans remember the emotional involvement of LHM with the team and do not see (publicly) that level from the current ownership. With LHM's commitment there was never any question that he would try to do what was best for the team, in his mind.

If the Jazz are interested in the long term the Corbin hire makes no sense. He has not demonstrated any bench skill whatsoever, and many times after he talks to the team during timeouts their performance gets worse.

Inigo Montoya wrote:

Jazzfan12 wrote:If our young players aren't busts, we'll be too good to get a top 5 pick next year. Rookies and 2nd year players can be easy to tank with, 4th and 3rd year players aren't unless they're huge disappointments.

i get your point, but i think it is a situational thing. i don't consider demarcus cousins a huge disappointment, nor tyreke evans or thomas robinson. yet the kings are bad every year, and DMC and evans are 3rd and 4th year players.

it's not only those 3rd and 4th year players, it's the entire roster that makes the team bad. the hornets are bad with vasquez, gordon and lopez. the sixers are bad with an allstar in holliday and turner, the wizards suck with wall, the raptors suck with derozan, the pistons suck with monroe and knight, the cavs suck with thompson + and allstar irving, and of course there's the bobcats.

each team has its own circumstances and reason for being bad, but young teams usually lose in this league, especially if you "build them right". it doesn't mean their young players are disappointments. OKC lost quite a bit even with durant and westbrook. the cavs have a 2nd year prodigy allstar and his team still blows.

Knight is pretty bad and the Pistons aren't close to a top 5 pick either.

The Hornets have had tons of injuries and their best players play the same position.

The Cavs have had tons of injuries.

The Raptors aren't close to a top 5 pick.

Cousins is a huge disappointment and a bad player, he doesn't play any defense at all and can't shoot so he kills the Kings when he's out there.

If Favors and Hayward and Kanter aren't busts and don't get injured, the Jazz will be way too good to get a top 5 pick regardless of the rest of the roster.

Inigo Montoya wrote:we always look to the relatively near future, and want things to happen now. could the jazz's FO formulated a plan about two years ago for two years from now? they obviously know what we know, and much more.

is it possible they planned for us to suck next season, that has a strong draft, while preserving cap space for a very strong free agency period at that very same year?

just a thought.

I've been wondering this since the end of last season, where a single game could have made the difference of getting a 1st round pick (perhaps the GSW) and not getting a pick. I am also wondering if I should cheer the Jazz to the playoffs this year, or hope that they slide into the lottery to potentially get a better PG. In fact, because of this, I am ok with the thought of not signing Al or Sap this offseason and seeing how the young guys do with a cheap, veteran supporting cast next season (although I have to admit I could only support that approach for a season or two before I expected results).

You have to keep in mind that people's jobs/livelihoods are at stake, so they will naturally be inclined to be conservative and field a playoff team as opposed to swinging for the fences and striking out. Keeping Utah a desireable place from a winning culture/tradition standpoint is also probably important to the organization, both from a standpoint of luring other players to the Jazz and the organization feeling good about itself.

Having a son who plays with travel teams, and having seen top level competition here in Southern California and Las Vegas (of course I think my son is great, but several factors, including our genes, are going to hold him back from pretty much everything but HS ball), I would be surprised if every NBA team doesn't have a top 10 at each position from every graduating class from at least sophomores in age, which is tracked and updated up until the draft. Everyone pretty much knows who the wonder kids are, many of whom form superstar AAU travel teams in HS. Some of these teams might be able to beat good college teams, although there are the late bloomers such as Trey Burke and Gordon Hayward who aren't on the radar until they shine in college. So, yeah, they have a bigger, longer term view than most of us, but they aren't above reproach in their decision making.

I came up with a similar theory:

Jazz didn't want our FA's to be gone this year, especially Al and Paul. Which is why we offered Paul a contract.

I believe the Jazz wanted the same players to play through next year to be traded, not this year. It was coincidence that we got Foye, Mo and Marvin. But for the rest, we got 8th place the year before, so we knew we could do the same thing with the addition of the three newbies.

Next year is a supposed better draft, so we would collect 2 new 1st rounders this draft, build them up next year, and then dump off some FA's, and get some 1st rounders next year by trade.

There has been some colossally stupid things done by NBA front offices. Including getting the name and age wrong on a 2nd round draft choice who was technically not eligible for the draft. So it is totally fair to ask is so & so competent.

I don't think the Jazz have some grand plan in place. Because in the NBA any grand plan has to involve lucking into a superstar that can stay healthy.

With that in mind I think the Jazz want to try and do two things... get into the playoffs almost every year... and stay under the tax. Having a winning team run on a budget is best for business.

Will they spend if they have a real chance... sure. But the only real chance would have involved a willing & healthy Deron... and he is neither.

I think the biggest proof that they have some idea of what they are doing is the fact we got a handful of young guys who are all top lottery picks who in all due respect are as good as their draft pick.

I also think the aquisition of Mo and Foye was exceptional FA scouting. I mean we added Marvin on top, who actually had a better 3pt% than Foye and Marvin last year. He didn't make as many but he can make them.

I am kind of glad we did the trade even though I make remarks about marv everyday. But if we had Harris, would we even be looking for guys like Mo, etc in FA and Draft? Probably not, but it left a spot either way, its just more obvious that we need to fill it now.

Our front office is really good at what they do. They've done a great job drafting. I don't think being bad enough to nab a superstar in 2014 is part of the plan however.

I don't think we'll be bad enough to get in the upper half of the lottery. Our young players are just too good. Our chance to tank was right after we traded Deron. At least we only need to find good guards, who are much easier to come by.

Yeah we suck at not going to playoffs...were winners ga'l....

I think its just to insane to trade your main starters for better draft picks months before the draft. I thought we still had draft day trading. I mean all we can really do is pick our players, and when trade opens back up, trade whoever we have left, which is whack, cause half our guys are gonna walk unless they resign with us.

But what do you do, sign someone so that you can trade them? I honestly don't think its worth it this year. What if we get some 4th best PG, and trade him and our other pick for a #1 PG, and he ends up sucking in the NBA.

I don't think I've been shy about saying I think Jazz fans are a bunch of spoiled, impatient emo kids with little perspective.

I was reading the Bobcats vs. Jazz game thread on the Charlotte forum and every single one of them were absolutely jealous at the future the Jazz have to look forward to and were heaping praise on Kanter, Favors, Burks and Hayward in mounds.

I don't agree with every little thing the Jazz do, that's for damn sure. But I'm extremely excited about this team and grateful we aren't perennial bottom-feeders despite being one of the smallest, least attractive markets around.

If you have to compare yourself in any way to the bobcats you got problems. what a trainwreck of a franchise. & you shouldn't get hyped up about a young center prospect beasting against them either... it was basically a D-League game for him... their post guys suck the big one.

I told the bobcats fans what they ought to do & they didn't want to hear it. They suck a draft & developing talent. Henderson should be on the list this summer though. Could be the next Aaron Afflalo.

That's the point. We don't compare to the Bobcats, at all. They aren't the only team that the Jazz have a much brighter future than.

I think i can speak for most jazz fans when i say they were furious about the Deron Williams trade, myself being a level headed non-mormon from Chicago, I was able to put the trade in perspective and knew absolutely at the time it would pay big dividends. The fact of the matter is most Jazz fans get pissy about everything the team does, and the front office is one of the best in sports. If i recall the majority of jazz fans wanted Brandon Knight over Kanter, who looks like the most offensively gifted POST player since the turn of the millennium. Hayward wasn't a particularly popular choice either, i might add his per/36, rivals the number of Paul George who gets all the pub.

i also want to add THE CULTURE of the Utah organization, makes the biggest difference. Rather than a place like Sacramento, who has no culture or consistency within the FO. I would be shocked if the jazz ever took a head case like Cousins, those players are rarely accountable or consistent enough to lead a championship caliber team, plus and maybe most importantly a publicity liability for a team like the Jazz.

pickIBL wrote:If you have to compare yourself in any way to the bobcats you got problems. what a trainwreck of a franchise. & you shouldn't get hyped up about a young center prospect beasting against them either... it was basically a D-League game for him... their post guys suck the big one.

I told the bobcats fans what they ought to do & they didn't want to hear it. They suck a draft & developing talent. Henderson should be on the list this summer though. Could be the next Aaron Afflalo.

-Cant i ask that you quit typing in ebonics, first off. Gerald Henderson has the range of Earl Watson, and three-point shooting is Affalo's calling card on offense.

SoCalJazzFan wrote:

Inigo Montoya wrote:we always look to the relatively near future, and want things to happen now. could the jazz's FO formulated a plan about two years ago for two years from now? they obviously know what we know, and much more.

is it possible they planned for us to suck next season, that has a strong draft, while preserving cap space for a very strong free agency period at that very same year?

just a thought.

I've been wondering this since the end of last season, where a single game could have made the difference of getting a 1st round pick (perhaps the GSW) and not getting a pick. I am also wondering if I should cheer the Jazz to the playoffs this year, or hope that they slide into the lottery to potentially get a better PG. In fact, because of this, I am ok with the thought of not signing Al or Sap this offseason and seeing how the young guys do with a cheap, veteran supporting cast next season (although I have to admit I could only support that approach for a season or two before I expected results).

You have to keep in mind that people's jobs/livelihoods are at stake, so they will naturally be inclined to be conservative and field a playoff team as opposed to swinging for the fences and striking out. Keeping Utah a desireable place from a winning culture/tradition standpoint is also probably important to the organization, both from a standpoint of luring other players to the Jazz and the organization feeling good about itself.

Having a son who plays with travel teams, and having seen top level competition here in Southern California and Las Vegas (of course I think my son is great, but several factors, including our genes, are going to hold him back from pretty much everything but HS ball), I would be surprised if every NBA team doesn't have a top 10 at each position from every graduating class from at least sophomores in age, which is tracked and updated up until the draft. Everyone pretty much knows who the wonder kids are, many of whom form superstar AAU travel teams in HS. Some of these teams might be able to beat good college teams, although there are the late bloomers such as Trey Burke and Gordon Hayward who aren't on the radar until they shine in college. So, yeah, they have a bigger, longer term view than most of us, but they aren't above reproach in their decision making.

None of those AAU teams could compete with a good college team The coaching alone would make the difference, not to mention the maturity (If you look at BYU specifically you can see how lesser talent can be vasty improved with an extra 2 years of maturity... makes them exponentially better than they would be w/o missions). Plus the 'top college teams' have players of that caliber on their teams!