Extension Predictions

JazzMatt13 · Post #21 » by **JazzMatt13** » Fri Oct 31, 2014 7:59 am

Hayward is suppose to be this leader, yet he wasn't willing to take a smaller pay to benefit this team.

Now as our "leader", everyone is probably going to join in, and all head to Charlotte and Atlanta.

It is frustrating to get all these picks, wait 3 years, and find out your not lucky. That no one is willing to put in the work for you at the money they are getting. I never realized how much "veteran" weighs in, on how good you are. I mean if we had 1 guy like Big Al, I bet we would be .500 this year.

Post #22 » by **StocktonShorts** » Fri Oct 31, 2014 2:00 pm

The sky isn't falling. I just checked.

Amish Mafioso · Post #23 » by **Amish Mafioso** » Sun Nov 2, 2014 11:38 am

JazzMatt13 wrote:Hayward is suppose to be this leader, yet he wasn't willing to take a smaller pay to benefit this team.

It's unreasonable and unrealistic to expect a player to take anything less than market value on his first big contract. That is usually something that happens after a player has made his money, and he knows his opportunity for winning big is closing. He's overpaid, but nobody held a gun to our head to make us match.

Hayward did absolutely nothing wrong, really. If there's a finger to point, it will be at the FO for matching his contract, but for now let's give them both the benefit of the doubt.

The59Sound · Post #24 » by **The59Sound** » Sun Nov 2, 2014 9:15 pm

Amish Mafioso wrote:
JazzMatt13 wrote:Hayward is suppose to be this leader, yet he wasn't willing to take a smaller pay to benefit this team.

It's unreasonable and unrealistic to expect a player to take anything less than market value on his first big contract. That is usually something that happens after a player has made his money, and he knows his opportunity for winning big is closing. He's overpaid, but nobody held a gun to our head to make us match.

Hayward did absolutely nothing wrong, really. If there's a finger to point, it will be at the FO for matching his contract, but for now let's give them both the benefit of the doubt.

Thank you. I can't listen to any more of this garbage about what a bad person Hayward is for skillfully negotiating -- THE SAME AS EVERY ONE OF US DOES WHEN WE'RE SPEAKING WITH PROSPECTIVE EMPLOYERS.

Dry Fly · Post #25 » by **Dry Fly** » Mon Nov 3, 2014 4:03 pm

The59Sound wrote:
Thank you. I can't listen to any more of this garbage about what a bad person Hayward is for skillfully negotiating -- THE SAME AS EVERY ONE OF US DOES WHEN WE'RE SPEAKING WITH PROSPECTIVE EMPLOYERS.

I don't know... some things are more important than money... but of course you don't learn this until you have been around the block a few times which Gordo hasn't. Hopefully the contract doesn't turn AK47 toxic. I think that contract ruined AK and hobbled the Jazz at a moment in time where we were contending.

Hikari · Post #26 » by **Hikari** » Mon Nov 3, 2014 5:11 pm

Dry Fly wrote:
The59Sound wrote:
Thank you. I can't listen to any more of this garbage about what a bad person Hayward is for skillfully negotiating -- THE SAME AS EVERY ONE OF US DOES WHEN WE'RE SPEAKING WITH PROSPECTIVE EMPLOYERS.

I don't know... some things are more important than money... but of course you don't learn this until you have been around the block a few times which Gordo hasn't. Hopefully the contract doesn't turn AK47 toxic. I think that contract ruined AK and hobbled the Jazz at a moment in time where we were contending.

It is a very different time in the NBA the salary structure is completely different. The cap is soaring up and with the new collective bargaining agreement contracts are not as long. Hayward and Favors contracts will be expired before Exum has any type of extension. AK47's extension was for 7 years. That's 3 years longer than Hayward. To many people I talk to hate on Hayward because of the AK47 contract when it is comparing apples to oranges.

I hope you don;t think I am attacking you Dry Fly this is my response to several people saying the same thing.

Post #27 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Mon Nov 3, 2014 5:38 pm

I don't like the contract Hayward got, but I'm not holding it against him - I'm holding it against the FO. Somehow, I don't think DL gives the Millers a discount when discussing his contract. The Jazz are not a charity organization, they exist to make money, and Hayward doesn't owe them anything.

But let's be real about this. Let's say he was willing to give the Jazz a hometown discount and sign for the 4\52M that was reported a season ago, instead of the 4\63M he ended up getting - how much better would the Jazz have been due to the extra 2.75M per year spending money? They'll still be a lottery team for the foreseeable future, so why give that money away, when he could just as easily make the same amount while playing for a playoff team in Charlotte?

Bottom line - be angry at the front office for playing their hand poorly, not at Hayward for picking an agent who is doing what he's paid to do.

pickIBL · Post #28 » by **pickIBL** » Mon Nov 3, 2014 6:41 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:I don't like the contract Hayward got, but I'm not holding it against him - I'm holding it against the FO. Somehow, I don't think DL gives the Millers a discount when discussing his contract. The Jazz are not a charity organization, they exist to make money, and Hayward doesn't owe them anything.

But let's be real about this. Let's say he was willing to give the Jazz a hometown discount and sign for the 4\52M that was reported a season ago, instead of the 4\63M he ended up getting - how much better would the Jazz have been due to the extra 2.75M per year spending money? They'll still be a lottery team for the foreseeable future, so why give that money away, when he could just as easily make the same amount while playing for a playoff team in Charlotte?

Bottom line - be angry at the front office for playing their hand poorly, not at Hayward for picking an agent who is doing what he's paid to do.

Yea I don't think any sane person blames Hayward. Sure you have a ryanstorm here or there, but I doubt the fan base would blame Hayward for taking what was offered.

Especially with these shorter contracts you've got to get paid when you can. I do like the shorter deals as it doesn't penalize the fan base as much for GM blunders. Next CBA the players will get their $$$, but I hope the contract structure stays.

Dry Fly · Post #29 » by **Dry Fly** » Mon Nov 3, 2014 6:52 pm

Yeah a 4 year contract is in a different class than AK''s 7 year deal... but it still might be a limiting burden in a couple years.

After watching Gordo flop last year, and watching him turn sour and disconnected it reminded me a lot of AK. Also, Deron and Booze really took over the team and AK was a overpaid sideshow... That is a distinct possibility with Gordo as well within 4 years.

Now as far as blame goes, yeah the FO takes it all. Gordo is just a pawn.

Post #30 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Mon Nov 3, 2014 6:59 pm

I wonder if AK's 47 stands for "wish it was 4 years but we're stuck with this deal for 7..."

Dry Fly · Post #31 » by **Dry Fly** » Mon Nov 3, 2014 7:13 pm

Actually it was what 3 years into the 7 year contract that Deron and Booze took over? AK 37.

pickIBL · Post #32 » by **pickIBL** » Mon Nov 3, 2014 7:17 pm

Dry Fly wrote:Yeah a 4 year contract is in a different class than AK''s 7 year deal... but it still might be a limiting burden in a couple years.

After watching Gordo flop last year, and watching him turn sour and disconnected it reminded me a lot of AK. Also, Deron and Booze really took over the team and AK was a overpaid sideshow... That is a distinct possibility with Gordo as well within 4 years.

Now as far as blame goes, yeah the FO takes it all. Gordo is just a pawn.

Now as of this summer Tomic is free and clear of his FCB contract and claims to want MLE money to come over. Based on what guys get paid that's a 4 year deal you gotta do. Talk about a guy who has really grown.... he's averaging nearly 8 boards a game in the ACB in 20 minutes. And he is pulling down 8 in Euroleague play... that's kind of shocking really. Alec was the right guy to extend. Now I hope they explore Kanter trades so he doesn't see RFA in Utah.

Dry Fly · Post #33 » by **Dry Fly** » Mon Nov 3, 2014 7:17 pm

And the thing about it... I was always a fan of AK... even when I hated him being on this team. I don't feel the same for Gordo for some reason. AK went out and made an all star team and was an athletic freak. Gordo did nothing and got paid.

Post #34 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Mon Nov 3, 2014 7:25 pm

Dry Fly · Post #35 » by **Dry Fly** » Mon Nov 3, 2014 7:26 pm

pickIBL wrote:
Dry Fly wrote:Yeah a 4 year contract is in a different class than AK''s 7 year deal... but it still might be a limiting burden in a couple years.

After watching Gordo flop last year, and watching him turn sour and disconnected it reminded me a lot of AK. Also, Deron and Booze really took over the team and AK was a overpaid sideshow... That is a distinct possibility with Gordo as well within 4 years.

Now as far as blame goes, yeah the FO takes it all. Gordo is just a pawn.

Now as of this summer Tomic is free and clear of his FCB contract and claims to want MLE money to come over. Based on what guys get paid that's a 4 year deal you gotta do. Talk about a guy who has really grown.... he's averaging nearly 8 boards a game in the ACB in 20 minutes. And he is pulling down 8 in Euroleague play... that's kind of shocking really. Alec was the right guy to extend. Now I hope they explore Kanter trades so he doesn't see RFA in Utah.

I don't know as far as Tomic... I'm really liking Gobert so far.

BTW I remember you and IM arguing about trading Gordo about a year ago and I was arguing for letting him earn it. He didn't earn it and still got paid. You guys were right FWIW.

pickIBL · Post #36 » by **pickIBL** » Mon Nov 3, 2014 7:33 pm

Dry Fly wrote:I don't know as far as Tomic... I'm really liking Gobert so far.

BTW I remember you and IM arguing about trading Gordo about a year ago and I was arguing for letting him earn it. He didn't earn it and still got paid. You guys were right FWIW.

Look at all the guys going down with injury. You need all 3 (Favors, Gobert, Tomic). Replacing Kanter with Tomic makes it easier to pay Gobert.

Post #37 » by **StocktonShorts** » Mon Nov 3, 2014 8:15 pm

At this point I'm all for bringing Tomic over for MLE money.

Dry Fly · Post #38 » by **Dry Fly** » Mon Nov 3, 2014 8:20 pm

Tomic is a 5? If he can play the stretch 4 then yeah. Otherwise it seems a little redundant.

Post #39 » by **StocktonShorts** » Mon Nov 3, 2014 8:31 pm

Dry Fly wrote:Tomic is a 5? If he can play the stretch 4 then yeah. Otherwise it seems a little redundant.

I think he's a non-stretch four/small five in the NBA, but he's a great passer facilitator from the high-post from what I've seen.

Post #40 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Mon Nov 3, 2014 8:33 pm

StocktonShorts wrote:
Dry Fly wrote:Tomic is a 5? If he can play the stretch 4 then yeah. Otherwise it seems a little redundant.

I think he's a non-stretch four/small five in the NBA, but he's a great passer facilitator from the high-post from what I've seen.

He might be a thin 5, but he's not a small 5. He's like 7-2. With nice mid-range shot, high BBIQ, good passing, good touch and nice coordination.