Around the NBA, Season 2016-2017

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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2016-2017 

Post#981 » by KqWIN » Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:57 am

stitches wrote:I wanted to revive a discussion from before free agency. Is there still anybody liking Boston with Hayward better than Utah with Hayward? The Jazz still have the best player among both teams. They might have the best prospect among both teams now that Boston traded Fultz for iso-Tatum and we now have the better depth.

What a a **** of an off-season this has been for Ainge. I hated pretty much every single thing he did. EVERY SINGLE THING! Well... besides signing Hayward I guess(but I hated this one for a different reason). Is this what those 2 BKN picks went for? They pretty much sold off all their best defenders and got a glorified microwave scorer for another microwave scorer, 2018 BKN pick that could have been Doncic/Bamba/Porter/Bagley/Ayton and the best contract in the league.

I didn't really think that Hayward will regret his decision because Boston had so many different ways to get better and stay better. Not anymore... they sold out all of them for Jayson Tatum and Kyrie Irving. WOW! I think there is now a realistic scenario where Boston is a first round exit next year and never even gets to conference finals for the duration of Hayward's contract. There is a realistic scenario where Hayward has already achieved the best playoff appearance of his career. Let that one sink in. Right now I'd take MKE, CLE, WAS, TOR ahead of BOS. Even Miami might be better depending on how real their second half of the season was.

Or do you guys still think I'm way off-base?


I don't think Ainge put them in a better position with his moves, but I still think Boston was the better situation for Hayward. Much of my opinion on that came from Boston playing in the East, and that is still true after these moves. The path to championship is so much easier, and there's a high likelihood that LeBron goes west. If that happens, well you can pencil in Boston as the Eastern Conference favorite for a long time. Teams like Milwaukee and Philly are coming up, but they are still a ways away and it's no guarantee that they'll get there. Washington is the biggest threat, and they are locked into a roster that might not make the playoffs in the West. Then you add on the endorsements, attention, all star team chances, all nba chances ect. Everything is easier for Hayward in the East. The Jazz simply could not compete with those advantages.
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2016-2017 

Post#982 » by stitches » Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:28 am

KqWIN wrote:
I don't think Ainge put them in a better position with his moves, but I still think Boston was the better situation for Hayward. Much of my opinion on that came from Boston playing in the East, and that is still true after these moves. The path to championship is so much easier, and there's a high likelihood that LeBron goes west. If that happens, well you can pencil in Boston as the Eastern Conference favorite for a long time. Teams like Milwaukee and Philly are coming up, but they are still a ways away and it's no guarantee that they'll get there. Washington is the biggest threat, and they are locked into a roster that might not make the playoffs in the West. Then you add on the endorsements, attention, all star team chances, all nba chances ect. Everything is easier for Hayward in the East. The Jazz simply could not compete with those advantages.

Want a friendly 1 month avatar bet on where exactly Boston ends up? I say 3 or lower. And this won't be getting any better in the future simply because MKE and PHI have a much better high end talent than Boston and will be getting much better much more quickly.

You are right that the east is still MUCH MUCH easier than the west, but there are several teams that will be getting good in the next several years. I don't think Boston is guaranteed anything anymore. And I kind of did before.
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2016-2017 

Post#983 » by zero24gravity » Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:17 pm

Reports are now saying Thomas' injury is worse than expected. Don't be surprised if CLE takes that trade back due to the his physical exam findings. From what I've read, IT may be out the majority (or all) the season, which means if the trade doesn't pan out, the C's will have nothing but an older Horford, a player who doesn't want to be 1st option (Haywood), young and unproven talent, and a pissed off Crowder, who just got traded and already was unhappy about the GH acquisition.

Stay tuned. ..
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2016-2017 

Post#984 » by Daddy 801 » Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:26 pm

It's a shame really. I would love to see a healthy IT, Crowder, Love, TT, and LeBron take on the Warriors. I actually believe that is a good enough squad for the Cavs to win. Not to mention if LeBron actually committed they would shop that Brooklyn pick and get another good player. It would be nice to see Dray have to eat humble pie. And it might force the Warriors to move Klay which "we" could possibly benefit from.
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2016-2017 

Post#985 » by KqWIN » Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:31 pm

stitches wrote:
KqWIN wrote:
I don't think Ainge put them in a better position with his moves, but I still think Boston was the better situation for Hayward. Much of my opinion on that came from Boston playing in the East, and that is still true after these moves. The path to championship is so much easier, and there's a high likelihood that LeBron goes west. If that happens, well you can pencil in Boston as the Eastern Conference favorite for a long time. Teams like Milwaukee and Philly are coming up, but they are still a ways away and it's no guarantee that they'll get there. Washington is the biggest threat, and they are locked into a roster that might not make the playoffs in the West. Then you add on the endorsements, attention, all star team chances, all nba chances ect. Everything is easier for Hayward in the East. The Jazz simply could not compete with those advantages.

Want a friendly 1 month avatar bet on where exactly Boston ends up? I say 3 or lower. And this won't be getting any better in the future simply because MKE and PHI have a much better high end talent than Boston and will be getting much better much more quickly.

You are right that the east is still MUCH MUCH easier than the west, but there are several teams that will be getting good in the next several years. I don't think Boston is guaranteed anything anymore. And I kind of did before.


Sure why not :)

I actually think it'll get better in the future because LeBron is going to LA. You can view the Kyrie deal as insurance in some ways. I'm not saying it was a good purchase, but they know that they'll at least get Kyrie out of the BKN they moved. Kyrie+Hayward+Horford is enough to stay near the top of the East for a long time, and they still have lottery tickets in Brown, Tatum, and the pick they got for Fultz. Kyrie can be seen as a lottery ticket as well.

Again, I'm not saying these are good moves. I criticized both, but the inherent advantages in the East are still there. If LeBron does leave to LA as I suspect, who is the biggest threat in the East? WAS-MIL-PHI? Not sure those teams are better than Denver this year or the 3 after that.
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2016-2017 

Post#986 » by Daddy 801 » Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:00 pm

KqWIN wrote:
stitches wrote:
KqWIN wrote:
I don't think Ainge put them in a better position with his moves, but I still think Boston was the better situation for Hayward. Much of my opinion on that came from Boston playing in the East, and that is still true after these moves. The path to championship is so much easier, and there's a high likelihood that LeBron goes west. If that happens, well you can pencil in Boston as the Eastern Conference favorite for a long time. Teams like Milwaukee and Philly are coming up, but they are still a ways away and it's no guarantee that they'll get there. Washington is the biggest threat, and they are locked into a roster that might not make the playoffs in the West. Then you add on the endorsements, attention, all star team chances, all nba chances ect. Everything is easier for Hayward in the East. The Jazz simply could not compete with those advantages.

Want a friendly 1 month avatar bet on where exactly Boston ends up? I say 3 or lower. And this won't be getting any better in the future simply because MKE and PHI have a much better high end talent than Boston and will be getting much better much more quickly.

You are right that the east is still MUCH MUCH easier than the west, but there are several teams that will be getting good in the next several years. I don't think Boston is guaranteed anything anymore. And I kind of did before.


Sure why not :)

I actually think it'll get better in the future because LeBron is going to LA. You can view the Kyrie deal as insurance in some ways. I'm not saying it was a good purchase, but they know that they'll at least get Kyrie out of the BKN they moved. Kyrie+Hayward+Horford is enough to stay near the top of the East for a long time, and they still have lottery tickets in Brown, Tatum, and the pick they got for Fultz. Kyrie can be seen as a lottery ticket as well.

Again, I'm not saying these are good moves. I criticized both, but the inherent advantages in the East are still there. If LeBron does leave to LA as I suspect, who is the biggest threat in the East? WAS-MIL-PHI? Not sure those teams are better than Denver this year or the 3 after that.


I don't know about the regular season, but in the playoffs I would take Washington and Toronto over the Celts next year. Predicting the regular seaosn is to dependent on injuries. But if Wall and Lowry/Derozen are healthy I think the Celts will be 4th as well. I see the Celts getting better in 2-3 years. Young guys take time no matter how good they are. And as much as I like Tatum, he isn't transcendent. I also don't see Kyrie and Hayward being great fits with Horford. Their offense might be great, but their defense will not be great. Kyrie is going to have the ball so much it probably will bring Haywards stats down, and I can easily see Hayward getting upset with Kyrie when he plays hero ball and does something inefficient or out of the system.

If they play Washington I can see Wall just abusing the hell out of them. In fact Boston is going to have the same problem the Jazz have had the past few years. PG's torching them. Hopefully we somewhat ended that with Rubio/Donovan.
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2016-2017 

Post#987 » by Inigo Montoya » Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:10 pm

KqWIN wrote:
stitches wrote:
KqWIN wrote:
I don't think Ainge put them in a better position with his moves, but I still think Boston was the better situation for Hayward. Much of my opinion on that came from Boston playing in the East, and that is still true after these moves. The path to championship is so much easier, and there's a high likelihood that LeBron goes west. If that happens, well you can pencil in Boston as the Eastern Conference favorite for a long time. Teams like Milwaukee and Philly are coming up, but they are still a ways away and it's no guarantee that they'll get there. Washington is the biggest threat, and they are locked into a roster that might not make the playoffs in the West. Then you add on the endorsements, attention, all star team chances, all nba chances ect. Everything is easier for Hayward in the East. The Jazz simply could not compete with those advantages.

Want a friendly 1 month avatar bet on where exactly Boston ends up? I say 3 or lower. And this won't be getting any better in the future simply because MKE and PHI have a much better high end talent than Boston and will be getting much better much more quickly.

You are right that the east is still MUCH MUCH easier than the west, but there are several teams that will be getting good in the next several years. I don't think Boston is guaranteed anything anymore. And I kind of did before.


Sure why not :)

I actually think it'll get better in the future because LeBron is going to LA. You can view the Kyrie deal as insurance in some ways. I'm not saying it was a good purchase, but they know that they'll at least get Kyrie out of the BKN they moved. Kyrie+Hayward+Horford is enough to stay near the top of the East for a long time, and they still have lottery tickets in Brown, Tatum, and the pick they got for Fultz. Kyrie can be seen as a lottery ticket as well.

Again, I'm not saying these are good moves. I criticized both, but the inherent advantages in the East are still there. If LeBron does leave to LA as I suspect, who is the biggest threat in the East? WAS-MIL-PHI? Not sure those teams are better than Denver this year or the 3 after that.


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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2016-2017 

Post#988 » by stitches » Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:45 pm

Read on Twitter


Interesting. If he indeed refused 17.5M per year I think that's horrible advice he's getting from somewhere. I have hard time seeing him getting more next year when the money stash in the league will be even more depleted.
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2016-2017 

Post#989 » by AingesBurner » Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:47 pm

stitches wrote:
Read on Twitter


Interesting. If he indeed refused 17.5M per year I think that's horrible advice he's getting from somewhere. I have hard time seeing him getting more next year when the money stash in the league will be even more depleted.


I think he gets 15 at most and Dallas will be the only team offering that.


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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2016-2017 

Post#990 » by ForeverRDjazz » Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:24 pm

stitches wrote:
Read on Twitter


Interesting. If he indeed refused 17.5M per year I think that's horrible advice he's getting from somewhere. I have hard time seeing him getting more next year when the money stash in the league will be even more depleted.


Man is a idiot. :crazy: Should fire his agent ASAP.
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2016-2017 

Post#991 » by Daddy 801 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:40 am

stitches wrote:
Read on Twitter


Interesting. If he indeed refused 17.5M per year I think that's horrible advice he's getting from somewhere. I have hard time seeing him getting more next year when the money stash in the league will be even more depleted.


Good news for us as it just means one more player taking up capspace when there will already be very little left. At least once he gets an offer. At this rate I can see Favs possibly coming back in a reasonable deal.


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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2016-2017 

Post#992 » by SoCalJazzFan » Sun Aug 27, 2017 1:44 am

If you want some laughs, read the Celtics forum's threads regarding the trade fiasco. Most of the fans are irrational, and interestingly on opposite ends of the spectrum either wanting IT back or saying the craziest things about the Cavs. There are a few, however, that realize there is no going back and realize that another pick will be conveyed. No one seems to grasp the obvious that the Celtics represented IT as not needing surgery and being back full health soon, but actually needing surgery and playing little to none this season, and thus the Cavs asking for additional consideration.

What else are the Celtics going to do?, take back a pissed Isaiah Thomas who apparently needs surgery and Crowder, both of whom have been stabbed in the back, and roll with Smart or Rozier as their starting PG for most or all of the season? Cavs have all the leverage here.
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2016-2017 

Post#993 » by KqWIN » Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:03 pm

The money is going to really tight the next couple of summers. Bad timing for guys like Favors and Noel.
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2016-2017 

Post#994 » by stitches » Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:47 pm

KqWIN wrote:The money is going to really tight the next couple of summers. Bad timing for guys like Favors and Noel.

Would you sign Hood for 15M and Exum for 10M per year right now?
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2016-2017 

Post#995 » by KqWIN » Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:56 pm

stitches wrote:
KqWIN wrote:The money is going to really tight the next couple of summers. Bad timing for guys like Favors and Noel.

Would you sign Hood for 15M and Exum for 10M per year right now?


I'm not sure. I used to be very worried about the money they'd get, but I'm doing a 180 on that. The money is not there.

Having said that, Hood and Exum are both wings. There's still a market for them. I don't have a clue as to where the negotiations will start at and what's fair for both sides. For now I'll say yes and yes, but I still think there's a chance Lindsey could negotiate them down.
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2016-2017 

Post#996 » by Daddy 801 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:02 pm

KqWIN wrote:
stitches wrote:
KqWIN wrote:The money is going to really tight the next couple of summers. Bad timing for guys like Favors and Noel.

Would you sign Hood for 15M and Exum for 10M per year right now?


I'm not sure. I used to be very worried about the money they'd get, but I'm doing a 180 on that. The money is not there.

Having said that, Hood and Exum are both wings. There's still a market for them. I don't have a clue as to where the negotiations will start at and what's fair for both sides. For now I'll say yes and yes, but I still think there's a chance Lindsey could negotiate them down.


10 for Exum seems high. We've seen glimpses but if we are being honest he has shown 0% consistency.

I think Hood is right about where Alec was before he got his contract. Showing glimpses of being above average starter. That was in the old salary cap and Alec got 10 so you would think Hood is worth about 15. But there is no money out there. I think 4 year 50 million is a decent deal that I'd sign for him.


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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2016-2017 

Post#997 » by KqWIN » Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:12 am

Daddy 801 wrote:10 for Exum seems high. We've seen glimpses but if we are being honest he has shown 0% consistency.

I think Hood is right about where Alec was before he got his contract. Showing glimpses of being above average starter. That was in the old salary cap and Alec got 10 so you would think Hood is worth about 15. But there is no money out there. I think 4 year 50 million is a decent deal that I'd sign for him.


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I don't expect a deal for Exum. I'm positive that he would rather bet on himself than let the first 3 seasons of his career do the negotiation. I do, however, think that there's a chance he could get paid. If he can be of any value of offense, he's the type of player teams will value the most.

Alec's market is apples to oranges. It was completed during the lower cap, but it was done with the anticipation that every single team in the NBA would have money to blow. The market is much tougher now that the cap has flattens. Teams won't have money to blow, and that puts Hood in a tougher market. The good thing for him is that he is a wing and just about every team in the league wants more wings.
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2016-2017 

Post#998 » by Daddy 801 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:55 am

KqWIN wrote:
Daddy 801 wrote:10 for Exum seems high. We've seen glimpses but if we are being honest he has shown 0% consistency.

I think Hood is right about where Alec was before he got his contract. Showing glimpses of being above average starter. That was in the old salary cap and Alec got 10 so you would think Hood is worth about 15. But there is no money out there. I think 4 year 50 million is a decent deal that I'd sign for him.


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I don't expect a deal for Exum. I'm positive that he would rather bet on himself than let the first 3 seasons of his career do the negotiation. I do, however, think that there's a chance he could get paid. If he can be of any value of offense, he's the type of player teams will value the most.

Alec's market is apples to oranges. It was completed during the lower cap, but it was done with the anticipation that every single team in the NBA would have money to blow. The market is much tougher now that the cap has flattens. Teams won't have money to blow, and that puts Hood in a tougher market. The good thing for him is that he is a wing and just about every team in the league wants more wings.


You think Hood will get less than 4 year 50 million?
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2016-2017 

Post#999 » by KqWIN » Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:58 am

Daddy 801 wrote:
KqWIN wrote:
Daddy 801 wrote:10 for Exum seems high. We've seen glimpses but if we are being honest he has shown 0% consistency.

I think Hood is right about where Alec was before he got his contract. Showing glimpses of being above average starter. That was in the old salary cap and Alec got 10 so you would think Hood is worth about 15. But there is no money out there. I think 4 year 50 million is a decent deal that I'd sign for him.


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I don't expect a deal for Exum. I'm positive that he would rather bet on himself than let the first 3 seasons of his career do the negotiation. I do, however, think that there's a chance he could get paid. If he can be of any value of offense, he's the type of player teams will value the most.

Alec's market is apples to oranges. It was completed during the lower cap, but it was done with the anticipation that every single team in the NBA would have money to blow. The market is much tougher now that the cap has flattens. Teams won't have money to blow, and that puts Hood in a tougher market. The good thing for him is that he is a wing and just about every team in the league wants more wings.


You think Hood will get less than 4 year 50 million?


He'll get more. There aren't many teams with money, but I could see almost every team being interested in him. All it takes is one offer to bump up the price. Ask THJ.
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2016-2017 

Post#1000 » by tleikheen » Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:20 am

This continuous trashing of Exum is gonna look pretty bad when the season starts and jazz fans see his unique speed and length combined with 3 yrs of experience play out when the season starts.Mitchell only 15 months younger than Exum is getting tons of accolades for his SL play but Exum was more dominant in his 2 games played that Jazz quickly saw enough to shut him down.I think by the end of this year Exum will be seen as the better player going forward than Hood.I also think Exum WILL NOT sign a lesser contract with the Jazz and test restricted free agency .Jazz will have to pay to keep him.

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