Rubio to Jazz

[vryadli]

Yeah, he was the best prospect of the Spanish baskbetball even better than Gasol Brothers. I think the Jazz drafted him after Stockton ended his career and had 3 ACL in his knews in a row, one of them before join the Jazz. A pity.

I was talking with some friends talking about he was in the pavillion watching Ricky because he worked with him this summer and if somebody in the Arena could recognize or remember him. He only played one hundred of games with the Jazz more than ten years ago.

I disagree about "better than Gasol Brothers" part. Pau was an unstoppable force in Eurobasket since age 17. A notch better than 19y.o. AK. Only young Sabonis was even better among non-NBA players and may be Marchulenis on the same level.

[BUANIX]

Yeah, he was the best prospect of the Spanish baskbetball even better than Gasol Brothers. I think the Jazz drafted him after Stockton ended his career and had 3 ACL in his knews in a row, one of them before join the Jazz. A pity.

I was talking with some friends talking about he was in the pavillion watching Ricky because he worked with him this summer and if somebody in the Arena could recognize or remember him. He only played one hundred of games with the Jazz more than ten years ago.

I disagree about "better than Gasol Brothers" part. Pau was an unstoppable force in Eurobasket since age 17. A notch better than 19y.o. AK. Only young Sabonis was even better among non-NBA players and may be Marchulenis on the same level.

he was better prospect than Pau indeed ( Marc was not even a prospect).

Pau had a huge change in one year , the one before arriving in the league but you should remember that the real stars in the Spanish national team who won the junior World Cup were Raul López and Juan Csrlos Navarro. Pau Gasol was the sixth man in that team .


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[vryadli]

Pau had a huge change in one year , the one before arriving in the league but you should remember that the real stars in the Spanish national team who won the junior World Cup were Raul López and Juan Csrlos Navarro. Pau Gasol was the sixth man in that team .

Hm... may be my memory let me down, but... around 1997 I was rather interesting in competition between AK and Gasol. And I don't remember anybody else in that consideration. May be you a talking about somewhat earlier times, because I talked mostly about Eurocup proper.

[traumeel]

Pau had a huge change in one year , the one before arriving in the league but you should remember that the real stars in the Spanish national team who won the junior World Cup were Raul López and Juan Csrlos Navarro. Pau Gasol was the sixth man in that team .

Hm... may be my memory let me down, but... around 1997 I was rather interesting in competition between AK and Gasol. And I don't remember anybody else in that consideration. May be you a talking about somewhat earlier times, because I talked mostly about Eurocup proper.

1999 World Championship for Junior Men.
15 to 25 Jul. 1999 - Porto, Aveiro, Almada, Faro, Lisbon in Portugal.
Accumulated Statistics

http://www.fiba.basketball/pages/eng/fa/team/p/sid/2896/tid/362/_/1999_World_Championship_for_Junior_Men/accumulated-statistics.html

[BUANIX]

Pau had a huge change in one year , the one before arriving in the league but you should remember that the real stars in the Spanish national team who won the junior World Cup were Raul López and Juan Csrlos Navarro. Pau Gasol was the sixth man in that team .

Hm... may be my memory let me down, but... around 1997 I was rather interesting in competition between AK and Gasol. And I don't remember anybody else in that consideration. May be you a talking about somewhat earlier times, because I talked mostly about Eurocup proper.

1999 World Championship for Junior Men.
15 to 25 Jul. 1999 - Porto, Aveiro, Almada, Faro, Lisbon in Portugal.
Accumulated Statistics

http://www.fiba.basketball/pages/eng/fa/team/p/sid/2896/tid/362/_/1999_World_Championship_for_Junior_Men/accumulated-statistics.html

Exactly

Pau became Pau one year later . That year Barcelona signed Seikaly and Pau was expected on the second team but finally he did the best performance I remember in the Spanish league

Raul broke his knee ( first time ) after been selected by Utah While playing with Real Madrid , I still remember that day. Life is life !


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[vryadli]

Pau became Pau one year later . That year Barcelona signed Seikaly and Pau was expected on the second team but finally he did the best performance I remember in the Spanish league

Raul broke his knee ( first time ) after been selected by Utah While playing with Real Madrid , I still remember that day. Life is life !


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Thanks! OK, that means I remember this later times. Naturally, I have paid less attention to foreign players before they advanced on international field, so my definition of "prospect" for such player differs.

[Quentin]

Rubio will create plenty of quality shots for his teammates if Quin is smart enough to put the ball in his hands and let him create in the PnR most of the game.

The challenge is surrounding Rubio with people that can knock down those quality looks (which he hasn't really had many solid options around him to this point).

People will claim that Rubio doesn't work in the PnR because of his shooting and that defenses have somehow "figured him out" even though his assist numbers continue to rise and his TOVs have gone down. If other teams have figured him out, it doesn't make sense for him to get better and better in those areas.

I'd love to see this rise in assist numbers. Seems he's been consistent over the last few years. For a guy that passes only, you'd think he'd have higher assist numbers, but nope. I don't want to hear that same bs argument people have thrown around saying the Wolves were a poor shooting team. They were 8th in the league last season. Utah was 9th.

Regarding P&R, Utah fans will be in shock when they see that every team will come in with a plan to roll under the screen when Rubio has the ball. It frustrated me for sure. Clogs the lanes and forces Rubio to make the shot. This is especially hurtful at the end of games.

Yeah, it's easy if you only look at last season and if you only look at FG% (which there is a 3.1% difference between 8th and 30th). If you have actually followed Rubio like me and others coming here to offer our opinions, you'd have seen the mainly trash teams that Ricky somehow made function. As someone else said, you can only shine a turd so much.

Check out the 3pt shooting on his teams and see if you think he didn't have poor shooting teams in his time with the Wolves. When you factor in the lack of floor spacing on a team with sh*t 3 point shooting, you should probably be even more impressed by Rubio's ability to consistently get his teammates easy looks/buckets.

Since you're getting sick of bs arguments, maybe you should stop perpetuating the one about teams somehow neutralizing Rubio's effectiveness on offense by rolling under on screens and daring him to shoot. If this were working, wouldn't his numbers be suffering in some way over the years? They've been saying this since his 2nd season and I've still yet to see it negatively effect his team's offenses.

Outside of the fact that obviously if he were a better shooter it would improve the offense even more. Just because something could be better (Rubio's shooting game) doesn't discount all the other high to elite level skills he brings to the table.

Looks to me like my analysis was correct and yours was wrong eh? I've followed Ricky for 6 years, nothing has changed here and it won't anywhere else. I actually wish the Wolves kept Ricky to run the second team. By the way, has anyone noticed that Snyder seems to use him as a second unit guy? He starts but only plays for 4 or 5 minutes, then comes back to play with the second unit. Sometimes doesn't get back in the game to finish the halves. I honestly believe Exum would be starting by now if he didn't get hurt.

[shrink]

As a Wolves fan, it's interesting to see the same debates over Rubio's game that I have seen for years, but in a new forum. Maybe that's not so strange though, with so many Wolves fans popping in to continue the discussion!

Here's my bottom-line on Rubio:

If you believe that Rubio's poor shooting let's defenders sag off, and that it's sometimes 4-on-5, you are correct.

However, if you believe that makes Rubio (who's certainly tremendous team defender) an offensive liability to the team, then you are mistaken.

Rubio's perhaps the best passer in the game. As a pass-first player who started his pro career at age 14, he has experience that allows him to see angles and defenses that other players cannot. Kevin Love used to get hit in head by Rubio passes, but blamed himself, pointing out that other PG's pass to you when you're open, but Rubio sees plays develop, and gets you the ball as you become open. Being a heartbeat ahead of other playmakers is the reason that, for years, Rubio's statistics show that when he is on the floor, his teams flourish offensively. In other words, his poor shooting is overwhelmed by the increase in shooting for his four teammates.

I know Rubio has slumped recently, but my only question in Utah really is whether Quinn Snyder is going to take advantage of Rubio's strengths better. Rubio is fantastic in the open court, if you get him the ball quickly after a rebound and run. Rubio is fantastic with the ball in his hands, if you don't ask him to be a 15-20 PPG scorer. I just don't know if the Jazz and Rubio cam really be the right fit.

[urinesane]

I'd love to see this rise in assist numbers. Seems he's been consistent over the last few years. For a guy that passes only, you'd think he'd have higher assist numbers, but nope. I don't want to hear that same bs argument people have thrown around saying the Wolves were a poor shooting team. They were 8th in the league last season. Utah was 9th.

Regarding P&R, Utah fans will be in shock when they see that every team will come in with a plan to roll under the screen when Rubio has the ball. It frustrated me for sure. Clogs the lanes and forces Rubio to make the shot. This is especially hurtful at the end of games.

Yeah, it's easy if you only look at last season and if you only look at FG% (which there is a 3.1% difference between 8th and 30th). If you have actually followed Rubio like me and others coming here to offer our opinions, you'd have seen the mainly trash teams that Ricky somehow made function. As someone else said, you can only shine a turd so much.

Check out the 3pt shooting on his teams and see if you think he didn't have poor shooting teams in his time with the Wolves. When you factor in the lack of floor spacing on a team with sh*t 3 point shooting, you should probably be even more impressed by Rubio's ability to consistently get his teammates easy looks/buckets.

Since you're getting sick of bs arguments, maybe you should stop perpetuating the one about teams somehow neutralizing Rubio's effectiveness on offense by rolling under on screens and daring him to shoot. If this were working, wouldn't his numbers be suffering in some way over the years? They've been saying this since his 2nd season and I've still yet to see it negatively effect his team's offenses.

Outside of the fact that obviously if he were a better shooter it would improve the offense even more. Just because something could be better (Rubio's shooting game) doesn't discount all the other high to elite level skills he brings to the table.

Looks to me like my analysis was correct and yours was wrong eh? I've followed Ricky for 6 years, nothing has changed here and it won't anywhere else. I actually wish the Wolves kept Ricky to run the second team. By the way, has anyone noticed that Snyder seems to use him as a second unit guy? He starts but only plays for 4 or 5 minutes, then comes back to play with the second unit. Sometimes doesn't get back in the game to finish the halves. I honestly believe Exum would be starting by now if he didn't get hurt.

From what I've heard Rubio is getting Adelman like treatment in Utah, where he doesn't run PnR much and basically stands in the corner as a spot up. Not sure though. If that's the case, re-read my posts about letting him run the PnR. Also doesn't help that they lost their best player before the season and are currently without their defensive anchor (and big target for Rubio).

I know context is tough for some around here...

[BarneyGumble]

As a Wolves fan, it's interesting to see the same debates over Rubio's game that I have seen for years, but in a new forum. Maybe that's not so strange though, with so many Wolves fans popping in to continue the discussion!

Here's my bottom-line on Rubio:

If you believe that Rubio's poor shooting let's defenders sag off, and that it's sometimes 4-on-5, you are correct.

However, if you believe that makes Rubio (who's certainly tremendous team defender) an offensive liability to the team, then you are mistaken.

Rubio's perhaps the best passer in the game. As a pass-first player who started his pro career at age 14, he has experience that allows him to see angles and defenses that other players cannot. Kevin Love used to get hit in head by Rubio passes, but blamed himself, pointing out that other PG's pass to you when you're open, but Rubio sees plays develop, and gets you the ball as you become open. Being a heartbeat ahead of other playmakers is the reason that, for years, Rubio's statistics show that when he is on the floor, his teams flourish offensively. In other words, his poor shooting is overwhelmed by the increase in shooting for his four teammates.

I know Rubio has slumped recently, but my only question in Utah really is whether Quinn Snyder is going to take advantage of Rubio's strengths better. Rubio is fantastic in the open court, if you get him the ball quickly after a rebound and run. Rubio is fantastic with the ball in his hands, if you don't ask him to be a 15-20 PPG scorer. I just don't know if the Jazz and Rubio cam really be the right fit.

I've always liked Rubio going back to his pre-NBA days and I agree with your posts....however in the current season I feel like he probably has as many turnovers as assists at this point. If he doesn't clean that up quickly....I will not want him on the team. He was the #1 reason we lost the game @ the Knicks a few nights ago when we were cruising all night long despite him.....

[LesGrossman]

As a Wolves fan, it's interesting to see the same debates over Rubio's game that I have seen for years, but in a new forum. Maybe that's not so strange though, with so many Wolves fans popping in to continue the discussion!

Here's my bottom-line on Rubio:

If you believe that Rubio's poor shooting let's defenders sag off, and that it's sometimes 4-on-5, you are correct.

However, if you believe that makes Rubio (who's certainly tremendous team defender) an offensive liability to the team, then you are mistaken.

Rubio's perhaps the best passer in the game. As a pass-first player who started his pro career at age 14, he has experience that allows him to see angles and defenses that other players cannot. Kevin Love used to get hit in head by Rubio passes, but blamed himself, pointing out that other PG's pass to you when you're open, but Rubio sees plays develop, and gets you the ball as you become open. Being a heartbeat ahead of other playmakers is the reason that, for years, Rubio's statistics show that when he is on the floor, his teams flourish offensively. In other words, his poor shooting is overwhelmed by the increase in shooting for his four teammates.

I know Rubio has slumped recently, but my only question in Utah really is whether Quinn Snyder is going to take advantage of Rubio's strengths better. Rubio is fantastic in the open court, if you get him the ball quickly after a rebound and run. Rubio is fantastic with the ball in his hands, if you don't ask him to be a 15-20 PPG scorer. I just don't know if the Jazz and Rubio cam really be the right fit.

I've always liked Rubio going back to his pre-NBA days and I agree with your posts....however in the current season I feel like he probably has as many turnovers as assists at this point. If he doesn't clean that up quickly....I will not want him on the team. He was the #1 reason we lost the game @ the Knicks a few nights ago when we were cruising all night long despite him.....

wow. Thats quite the bold assessment of that knicks game. Rubio was the reason? He actually went to the bench iirc, while Mitchell had a great 1st half but chucked the team to death in the second. Mabye we both should rewatch the game?

[BarneyGumble]

As a Wolves fan, it's interesting to see the same debates over Rubio's game that I have seen for years, but in a new forum. Maybe that's not so strange though, with so many Wolves fans popping in to continue the discussion!

Here's my bottom-line on Rubio:

If you believe that Rubio's poor shooting let's defenders sag off, and that it's sometimes 4-on-5, you are correct.

However, if you believe that makes Rubio (who's certainly tremendous team defender) an offensive liability to the team, then you are mistaken.

Rubio's perhaps the best passer in the game. As a pass-first player who started his pro career at age 14, he has experience that allows him to see angles and defenses that other players cannot. Kevin Love used to get hit in head by Rubio passes, but blamed himself, pointing out that other PG's pass to you when you're open, but Rubio sees plays develop, and gets you the ball as you become open. Being a heartbeat ahead of other playmakers is the reason that, for years, Rubio's statistics show that when he is on the floor, his teams flourish offensively. In other words, his poor shooting is overwhelmed by the increase in shooting for his four teammates.

I know Rubio has slumped recently, but my only question in Utah really is whether Quinn Snyder is going to take advantage of Rubio's strengths better. Rubio is fantastic in the open court, if you get him the ball quickly after a rebound and run. Rubio is fantastic with the ball in his hands, if you don't ask him to be a 15-20 PPG scorer. I just don't know if the Jazz and Rubio cam really be the right fit.

I've always liked Rubio going back to his pre-NBA days and I agree with your posts....however in the current season I feel like he probably has as many turnovers as assists at this point. If he doesn't clean that up quickly....I will not want him on the team. He was the #1 reason we lost the game @ the Knicks a few nights ago when we were cruising all night long despite him.....

wow. Thats quite the bold assessment of that knicks game. Rubio was the reason? He actually went to the bench iirc, while Mitchell had a great 1st half but chucked the team to death in the second. Mabye we both should rewatch the game?

No need to rewatch the whole game. Just the 4th quarter should do it...

[LesGrossman]

I've always liked Rubio going back to his pre-NBA days and I agree with your posts....however in the current season I feel like he probably has as many turnovers as assists at this point. If he doesn't clean that up quickly....I will not want him on the team. He was the #1 reason we lost the game @ the Knicks a few nights ago when we were cruising all night long despite him.....

wow. Thats quite the bold assessment of that knicks game. Rubio was the reason? He actually went to the bench iirc, while Mitchell had a great 1st half but chucked the team to death in the second. Mabye we both should rewatch the game?

No need to rewatch the whole game. Just the 4th quarter should do it...

ok mate lets see what you are made of...i did rewatch the 4th, heres my summary. Very curious to read from you how you explain that "Rubio was the #1 reason we lost". Or maybe you can say that you were wrong, and if anyone, it was Mitchell chucking, and Hood cooling down.

Start of 4th. Jazz up 5, assist Rubio to Thabo for 3. Then near steal, followed by lucky buzzer beater Hardaway. Udoh fouls Thomas, 2ft (1 made). Pass Rubio to Udoh, ball spins in and out. Foul Rubio on next posession. 9:56: Mitchell comes in for Thabo. Loses Hardaway, 2ft.. Mitchell takes heavily contested shot inside, misses. AB steals. O'Quinn fouls Jingles. THomas fouls Jingles with 0.2 sec on the clock 2ft made, 87:83, 8:39 to play.
Foul Burks. Ntikila scores off a screen (poorly defended by our bigs btw). Mitchell takes heavily contestd shot, makes it. Ntikila makes jumper off screen, Jingles does not defend the screen.AB travels (uncalled), drives and gets a lucky whistle, 2ft. 7:42. Thomas scores over Rubio after switch no help. Next offense ball goes around, noone wants to shoot, Rubio misses 3pt fg with short shot clock. . AB goaltends, tied game. 6:30 to go. Rubo is out Jazz up 2, timeout.

Rubio is out from here on, doesnt return until 3 min - Jazz dont score a single point during that stretch. Mitchell with a series of boneheaded decisions: challenging Porzingis at the rim, taking ill-advised fouls while knicks in the bonus. Offense stagnates because no point guard in the game; all contested 3's and floaters vs. heavy defense. All misses.

Rubio returns with Utah being 3 down. Mitchell takes terrible shot vs. big defender with no dribble rather than passing. Miss, Porzingis hits 3 over Favors. Hood misses open 3, NY misses 3, Rubio rebound pass to hood to Ingles => makes open 3. 96-99 1:36 to go . Porzingis msses, rebound rubio, drives, scores over Porzingis. 98-99, 1:12. Wild sequence, ending with Hardaway 3 over Jingles.102:98, 32.5 sec left. Mitchell drives vs. all big defenders throws ball out of bounds. 27 sec.. The only points in the last 5 min were Jingles 3 and Rubio midrange. That was basically the end of the game.

[Quentin]

Rubio apologists are alive! It's always someone else's fault that Rubio's teams fail, never his! It's the coach! It's another player missing! It's another player not making that open shot! This only happens to Rubio! Pooooor Rubio!

[BarneyGumble]

wow. Thats quite the bold assessment of that knicks game. Rubio was the reason? He actually went to the bench iirc, while Mitchell had a great 1st half but chucked the team to death in the second. Mabye we both should rewatch the game?

No need to rewatch the whole game. Just the 4th quarter should do it...

ok mate lets see what you are made of...i did rewatch the 4th, heres my summary. Very curious to read from you how you explain that "Rubio was the #1 reason we lost". Or maybe you can say that you were wrong, and if anyone, it was Mitchell chucking, and Hood cooling down.

Start of 4th. Jazz up 5, assist Rubio to Thabo for 3. Then near steal, followed by lucky buzzer beater Hardaway. Udoh fouls Thomas, 2ft (1 made). Pass Rubio to Udoh, ball spins in and out. Foul Rubio on next posession. 9:56: Mitchell comes in for Thabo. Loses Hardaway, 2ft.. Mitchell takes heavily contested shot inside, misses. AB steals. O'Quinn fouls Jingles. THomas fouls Jingles with 0.2 sec on the clock 2ft made, 87:83, 8:39 to play.
Foul Burks. Ntikila scores off a screen (poorly defended by our bigs btw). Mitchell takes heavily contestd shot, makes it. Ntikila makes jumper off screen, Jingles does not defend the screen.AB travels (uncalled), drives and gets a lucky whistle, 2ft. 7:42. Thomas scores over Rubio after switch no help. Next offense ball goes around, noone wants to shoot, Rubio misses 3pt fg with short shot clock. . AB goaltends, tied game. 6:30 to go. Rubo is out Jazz up 2, timeout.

Rubio is out from here on, doesnt return until 3 min - Jazz dont score a single point during that stretch. Mitchell with a series of boneheaded decisions: challenging Porzingis at the rim, taking ill-advised fouls while knicks in the bonus. Offense stagnates because no point guard in the game; all contested 3's and floaters vs. heavy defense. All misses.

Rubio returns with Utah being 3 down. Mitchell takes terrible shot vs. big defender with no dribble rather than passing. Miss, Porzingis hits 3 over Favors. Hood misses open 3, NY misses 3, Rubio rebound pass to hood to Ingles => makes open 3. 96-99 1:36 to go . Porzingis msses, rebound rubio, drives, scores over Porzingis. 98-99, 1:12. Wild sequence, ending with Hardaway 3 over Jingles.102:98, 32.5 sec left. Mitchell drives vs. all big defenders throws ball out of bounds. 27 sec.. The only points in the last 5 min were Jingles 3 and Rubio midrange. That was basically the end of the game.

I do need to give you props for this breakdown of the 4th. I also appreciate your opinion. I stand by my original statement however. What your breakdown doesn’t show is the effect Rubio has on both our offense and defense. The offense stagnates heavily while he is in. Guys are forced to take awkward shots to beat the clock. Rubio himself takes a lot of said shots. He also turns the ball over a lot. Defensively, he’s been getting burned. Showing “Mitchell takes heavily contested 3” does not explain how we got to that shot. What I see is withRubio on the floor our other players take lots of heavily contested shots to beat the clock and Rubio himself takes and misses lots of shots, many open shots.

[LesGrossman]

No need to rewatch the whole game. Just the 4th quarter should do it...

ok mate lets see what you are made of...i did rewatch the 4th, heres my summary. Very curious to read from you how you explain that "Rubio was the #1 reason we lost". Or maybe you can say that you were wrong, and if anyone, it was Mitchell chucking, and Hood cooling down.

Start of 4th. Jazz up 5, assist Rubio to Thabo for 3. Then near steal, followed by lucky buzzer beater Hardaway. Udoh fouls Thomas, 2ft (1 made). Pass Rubio to Udoh, ball spins in and out. Foul Rubio on next posession. 9:56: Mitchell comes in for Thabo. Loses Hardaway, 2ft.. Mitchell takes heavily contested shot inside, misses. AB steals. O'Quinn fouls Jingles. THomas fouls Jingles with 0.2 sec on the clock 2ft made, 87:83, 8:39 to play.
Foul Burks. Ntikila scores off a screen (poorly defended by our bigs btw). Mitchell takes heavily contestd shot, makes it. Ntikila makes jumper off screen, Jingles does not defend the screen.AB travels (uncalled), drives and gets a lucky whistle, 2ft. 7:42. Thomas scores over Rubio after switch no help. Next offense ball goes around, noone wants to shoot, Rubio misses 3pt fg with short shot clock. . AB goaltends, tied game. 6:30 to go. Rubo is out Jazz up 2, timeout.

Rubio is out from here on, doesnt return until 3 min - Jazz dont score a single point during that stretch. Mitchell with a series of boneheaded decisions: challenging Porzingis at the rim, taking ill-advised fouls while knicks in the bonus. Offense stagnates because no point guard in the game; all contested 3's and floaters vs. heavy defense. All misses.

Rubio returns with Utah being 3 down. Mitchell takes terrible shot vs. big defender with no dribble rather than passing. Miss, Porzingis hits 3 over Favors. Hood misses open 3, NY misses 3, Rubio rebound pass to hood to Ingles => makes open 3. 96-99 1:36 to go . Porzingis msses, rebound rubio, drives, scores over Porzingis. 98-99, 1:12. Wild sequence, ending with Hardaway 3 over Jingles.102:98, 32.5 sec left. Mitchell drives vs. all big defenders throws ball out of bounds. 27 sec.. The only points in the last 5 min were Jingles 3 and Rubio midrange. That was basically the end of the game.

I do need to give you props for this breakdown of the 4th. I also appreciate your opinion. I stand by my original statement however. What your breakdown doesn’t show is the effect Rubio has on both our offense and defense. The offense stagnates heavily while he is in. Guys are forced to take awkward shots to beat the clock. Rubio himself takes a lot of said shots. He also turns the ball over a lot. Defensively, he’s been getting burned. Showing “Mitchell takes heavily contested 3” does not explain how we got to that shot. What I see is withRubio on the floor our other players take lots of heavily contested shots to beat the clock and Rubio himself takes and misses lots of shots, many open shots.

The key is that the breakdown happened mainly with Rubio off the court so your whole statement really makes no sense any more. Of the shots he took when he got back on the court he went 1 of 2. He has been very (overly) hesitant with shots lately so the statement that he "takes a lot of said shots" himself is just plain wrong for the last few games, just look up the numbers. Wether he shot or not, wether hes on the court or not just didnt make much of a difference lately, the whole team sucked badly and its just silly to single out and scapegoat the one guy who at least always brings desire hustle and energy. Defensively i'd say he is the best player on the team impact wise, certainly when Rudy is out. Overall i feel its more like a personal thing than a rational issue here.

[BarneyGumble]

ok mate lets see what you are made of...i did rewatch the 4th, heres my summary. Very curious to read from you how you explain that "Rubio was the #1 reason we lost". Or maybe you can say that you were wrong, and if anyone, it was Mitchell chucking, and Hood cooling down.

Start of 4th. Jazz up 5, assist Rubio to Thabo for 3. Then near steal, followed by lucky buzzer beater Hardaway. Udoh fouls Thomas, 2ft (1 made). Pass Rubio to Udoh, ball spins in and out. Foul Rubio on next posession. 9:56: Mitchell comes in for Thabo. Loses Hardaway, 2ft.. Mitchell takes heavily contested shot inside, misses. AB steals. O'Quinn fouls Jingles. THomas fouls Jingles with 0.2 sec on the clock 2ft made, 87:83, 8:39 to play.
Foul Burks. Ntikila scores off a screen (poorly defended by our bigs btw). Mitchell takes heavily contestd shot, makes it. Ntikila makes jumper off screen, Jingles does not defend the screen.AB travels (uncalled), drives and gets a lucky whistle, 2ft. 7:42. Thomas scores over Rubio after switch no help. Next offense ball goes around, noone wants to shoot, Rubio misses 3pt fg with short shot clock. . AB goaltends, tied game. 6:30 to go. Rubo is out Jazz up 2, timeout.

Rubio is out from here on, doesnt return until 3 min - Jazz dont score a single point during that stretch. Mitchell with a series of boneheaded decisions: challenging Porzingis at the rim, taking ill-advised fouls while knicks in the bonus. Offense stagnates because no point guard in the game; all contested 3's and floaters vs. heavy defense. All misses.

Rubio returns with Utah being 3 down. Mitchell takes terrible shot vs. big defender with no dribble rather than passing. Miss, Porzingis hits 3 over Favors. Hood misses open 3, NY misses 3, Rubio rebound pass to hood to Ingles => makes open 3. 96-99 1:36 to go . Porzingis msses, rebound rubio, drives, scores over Porzingis. 98-99, 1:12. Wild sequence, ending with Hardaway 3 over Jingles.102:98, 32.5 sec left. Mitchell drives vs. all big defenders throws ball out of bounds. 27 sec.. The only points in the last 5 min were Jingles 3 and Rubio midrange. That was basically the end of the game.

I do need to give you props for this breakdown of the 4th. I also appreciate your opinion. I stand by my original statement however. What your breakdown doesn’t show is the effect Rubio has on both our offense and defense. The offense stagnates heavily while he is in. Guys are forced to take awkward shots to beat the clock. Rubio himself takes a lot of said shots. He also turns the ball over a lot. Defensively, he’s been getting burned. Showing “Mitchell takes heavily contested 3” does not explain how we got to that shot. What I see is withRubio on the floor our other players take lots of heavily contested shots to beat the clock and Rubio himself takes and misses lots of shots, many open shots.

The key is that the breakdown happened mainly with Rubio off the court so your whole statement really makes no sense any more. Of the shots he took when he got back on the court he went 1 of 2. He has been very (overly) hesitant with shots lately so the statement that he "takes a lot of said shots" himself is just plain wrong for the last few games, just look up the numbers. Wether he shot or not, wether hes on the court or not just didnt make much of a difference lately, the whole team sucked badly and its just silly to single out and scapegoat the one guy who at least always brings desire hustle and energy. Defensively i'd say he is the best player on the team impact wise, certainly when Rudy is out. Overall i feel its more like a personal thing than a rational issue here.

I assure you I dont have some sort of agenda against Rubio. Ive always liked him, back before his NBA days even. And I also agree that in the Knicks game and other games the whole TEAM tends to go cold and be ineffective. From the standpoint of my original statement, let me clarify. Rubio is under performing expectatins worse than any other player. This point really cannot be argued against. His turnovers are up. His assists are down. He just went through a 1-28 from three point range streak for crying out loud. You seem like a good dude and I dont want to keep this going. I will finish by saying 1) The Jazz struggles aren't all Rubio's fault. 2) Rubio is playing quite awful basketball at the moment and if he doesnt improve he should start to see the bench and some DNPs too.

See Rubio's current year stats vs career averages below. The problem mostly stems from increased turnovers, decreased assists, and more shooting attempts than previous seasons.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rubiori01.html

[sipclip]

It is amazing how horrible this trade looks now. Rubio is playing like crap and that pick looks like it will end up in the 15-20 range. All for the honor of taking on a player that the wolves would have given away for free because they wanted the cap space for Teague.

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[BarneyGumble]

ok mate lets see what you are made of...i did rewatch the 4th, heres my summary. Very curious to read from you how you explain that "Rubio was the #1 reason we lost". Or maybe you can say that you were wrong, and if anyone, it was Mitchell chucking, and Hood cooling down.

Start of 4th. Jazz up 5, assist Rubio to Thabo for 3. Then near steal, followed by lucky buzzer beater Hardaway. Udoh fouls Thomas, 2ft (1 made). Pass Rubio to Udoh, ball spins in and out. Foul Rubio on next posession. 9:56: Mitchell comes in for Thabo. Loses Hardaway, 2ft.. Mitchell takes heavily contested shot inside, misses. AB steals. O'Quinn fouls Jingles. THomas fouls Jingles with 0.2 sec on the clock 2ft made, 87:83, 8:39 to play.
Foul Burks. Ntikila scores off a screen (poorly defended by our bigs btw). Mitchell takes heavily contestd shot, makes it. Ntikila makes jumper off screen, Jingles does not defend the screen.AB travels (uncalled), drives and gets a lucky whistle, 2ft. 7:42. Thomas scores over Rubio after switch no help. Next offense ball goes around, noone wants to shoot, Rubio misses 3pt fg with short shot clock. . AB goaltends, tied game. 6:30 to go. Rubo is out Jazz up 2, timeout.

Rubio is out from here on, doesnt return until 3 min - Jazz dont score a single point during that stretch. Mitchell with a series of boneheaded decisions: challenging Porzingis at the rim, taking ill-advised fouls while knicks in the bonus. Offense stagnates because no point guard in the game; all contested 3's and floaters vs. heavy defense. All misses.

Rubio returns with Utah being 3 down. Mitchell takes terrible shot vs. big defender with no dribble rather than passing. Miss, Porzingis hits 3 over Favors. Hood misses open 3, NY misses 3, Rubio rebound pass to hood to Ingles => makes open 3. 96-99 1:36 to go . Porzingis msses, rebound rubio, drives, scores over Porzingis. 98-99, 1:12. Wild sequence, ending with Hardaway 3 over Jingles.102:98, 32.5 sec left. Mitchell drives vs. all big defenders throws ball out of bounds. 27 sec.. The only points in the last 5 min were Jingles 3 and Rubio midrange. That was basically the end of the game.

I do need to give you props for this breakdown of the 4th. I also appreciate your opinion. I stand by my original statement however. What your breakdown doesn’t show is the effect Rubio has on both our offense and defense. The offense stagnates heavily while he is in. Guys are forced to take awkward shots to beat the clock. Rubio himself takes a lot of said shots. He also turns the ball over a lot. Defensively, he’s been getting burned. Showing “Mitchell takes heavily contested 3” does not explain how we got to that shot. What I see is withRubio on the floor our other players take lots of heavily contested shots to beat the clock and Rubio himself takes and misses lots of shots, many open shots.

The key is that the breakdown happened mainly with Rubio off the court so your whole statement really makes no sense any more. Of the shots he took when he got back on the court he went 1 of 2. He has been very (overly) hesitant with shots lately so the statement that he "takes a lot of said shots" himself is just plain wrong for the last few games, just look up the numbers. Wether he shot or not, wether hes on the court or not just didnt make much of a difference lately, the whole team sucked badly and its just silly to single out and scapegoat the one guy who at least always brings desire hustle and energy. Defensively i'd say he is the best player on the team impact wise, certainly when Rudy is out. Overall i feel its more like a personal thing than a rational issue here.

Rubio had a stretch of four turnovers in a row against the Sixers tonight in the second quarter. He alone put us in such a big hole, that we could not climb out of it. I will repeat what I said before, Rubio again was the number one reason why we lost the game. Not the only reason, but the number one reason.

[Pass_the_rock]

Rubio had a stretch of four turnovers in a row against the Sixers tonight in the second quarter. He alone put us in such a big hole, that we could not climb out of it. I will repeat what I said before, Rubio again was the number one reason why we lost the game. Not the only reason, but the number one reason.

Now you just make stuff up. The underlined part can be disproved by recorded facts:
http://popcornmachine.net/gf?date=20171120&game=UTHPHI
and
https://watch.nba.com/game/20171120/UTAPHI (game tracker)

And if the bolded parts are about the Sixers game, then your entire post is just nonsense.