Around the NBA, Season 2017-2018

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Daddy 801
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2017-2018 

Post#901 » by Daddy 801 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:00 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:
Daddy 801 wrote:I keep switching up Middleton and Porter. My bad.

On a scale of things to happen a SnT is unlikely. But that’s their only option so I think they will try. Maybe Favs isn’t their main target, but they could send out Middleton and bring back a guy like Favs on a longer deal and maybe use Burks or someone else as filler.


Edit- I could see Favs agreeing to something like this if it is his only option for a longer/bigger payday.


And you even edited the post and kept Middleton in it. Classic :lol:


And I’m not even high. To be fair I have been in California and Vegas drinking non stop.


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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2017-2018 

Post#902 » by KqWIN » Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:01 pm

I just want someone that beat the Warriors anyway possible. I don’t care if it’s a new LeBron superteam, flip city in Houston, or Hinkie’s process.

The league is setup to favor large markets, and if you don’t believe it’s on purpose, you’re being fooled. I don’t get disappointed about these things because I’m a realist.
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2017-2018 

Post#903 » by Daddy 801 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:10 pm

stitches wrote:
SoCalJazzFan wrote:I'd be surprised if the Lakers aren't the next superfriend superteam by the end of next week. As a fan outside of the couple of superteams, this really sucks! I hope the NBA does something to curtail this.

This is indeed such an abomination of a dynamic. How can a team suck so bad for so long, give some of the worst contracts in the league to horrible players and then wake up and be FA destination overnight, while teams like the Jazz have done everything right, have built their team the right way, haven't given albatrosses of contracts, have drafted well, have made smart free agent acquisitions and we still cannot even get a meeting with the top tier FAs. Complete and utter BS. If we cannot get a top tier FA this year or next, IMO it will never happen. We just will have to give up on the idea altogether and operate with the assumption that it will never happen. Just strike high end free agency as a strategy off our repertoire and just try to maximize the other ways of acquiring talent.


Until we get rid of max contracts, have a hard cap, and also make players hit the market and have all teams set their value we will never have a league with a level playing field.

The only team that should be able to get LeBron at a discount is Cleveland due to having bird rights(an max for LeBron is a discount). If he (or any free agent) chooses to leave the team with bird rights they should have to hit the open market and ANY team can then set his value. If Dallas said they were willing to pay LeBron 55 million then the Lakers should be forced to pay that much as well. The only way a team should be able to get around this is a sign and trade and Clev would then have incentive to SnT LeBron and get back assets. Every player should have to hit the open market and have their value set. This is the real answer. No player should be able to take a discount. They can sign anywhere they want as free agents, they just should never be allowed to take a lower value than their worth. I’ve been saying this is the answer for about 5 years. It’s the only way to fix things.


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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2017-2018 

Post#904 » by KqWIN » Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:49 pm

Never heard of this “setting the value” idea but I hate it.

No max contract+hard cap is the solution but the league/players do not care. It’s not beneficial for either party so why would they care?
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2017-2018 

Post#905 » by KqWIN » Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:51 pm

KqWIN wrote:Never heard of this “setting the value” idea but I hate it.

No max contract+hard cap is the solution but the league/players do not care. It’s not beneficial for either party so why would they care?


And the league should abolish the draft too while they are at it...but not many can wrap their heads around that.
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2017-2018 

Post#906 » by AingesBurner » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:17 pm

KqWIN wrote:
KqWIN wrote:Never heard of this “setting the value” idea but I hate it.

No max contract+hard cap is the solution but the league/players do not care. It’s not beneficial for either party so why would they care?


And the league should abolish the draft too while they are at it...but not many can wrap their heads around that.


Hard cap would likely stop tanking and keep the draft.


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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2017-2018 

Post#907 » by KqWIN » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:22 pm

GobertReport wrote:
KqWIN wrote:
KqWIN wrote:Never heard of this “setting the value” idea but I hate it.

No max contract+hard cap is the solution but the league/players do not care. It’s not beneficial for either party so why would they care?


And the league should abolish the draft too while they are at it...but not many can wrap their heads around that.


Hard cap would likely stop tanking and keep the draft.


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I don’t see how a hard cap stops tanking.
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Around the NBA, Season 2017-2018 

Post#908 » by Daddy 801 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:22 pm

KqWIN wrote:
KqWIN wrote:Never heard of this “setting the value” idea but I hate it.

No max contract+hard cap is the solution but the league/players do not care. It’s not beneficial for either party so why would they care?


And the league should abolish the draft too while they are at it...but not many can wrap their heads around that.


I have suggested it on this board for years. It is my idea. Never heard anyone else suggest it. It’s absolutely the answer. The players are limited resources. The market should be able to set their value like other resources. Yes, they are people and should have some freedom to go where they want, but their value should be set if they choose to hit the open market.


I am 100% on board with eliminating the draft as well. Let players decide where they go. Which also will go hand in hand with players being able to stay with the teams they want if they are willing to take less money.
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2017-2018 

Post#909 » by KqWIN » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:42 pm

Daddy 801 wrote:
KqWIN wrote:
KqWIN wrote:Never heard of this “setting the value” idea but I hate it.

No max contract+hard cap is the solution but the league/players do not care. It’s not beneficial for either party so why would they care?


And the league should abolish the draft too while they are at it...but not many can wrap their heads around that.


I have suggested it on this board for years. It is my idea. Never heard anyone else suggest it. It’s absolutely the answer. The players are limited resources. The market should be able to set their value like other resources. Yes, they are people and should have some freedom to go where they want, but their value should be set if they choose to hit the open market.


I am 100% on board with eliminating the draft as well. Let players decide where they go. Which also will go hand in hand with players being able to stay with the teams they want if they are willing to take less money.


I know what you’re thinking. Players taking discounts helps fuel superteams and is bad...but this is like using an atomic bomb when you can use a hammer. There are so many bad unintended consequences and things that won’t be made clear.

For one, market value is not so simple. A player might want to take 3/$24 instead of 1/$10. But which contract does he have to have now?

And what happens if the Jazz have $5M in cap and have an agreement to sign Bjelica with it all, but the Magic march in and say they want to to pay Bjelica $5.5. Were screwed and Bjelica is screwed because now he can’t play in Utah and has to play For Orlando. You can’t just force player to go places who have the most cap.

The more I think about it, I hate it even more. Totally unnecessary to create all these issues and completely unfair to the players. There is zero chance in hell the players agree to something that doesn’t allow them any chance ever to pick where they want to work.
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2017-2018 

Post#910 » by AingesBurner » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:47 pm

KqWIN wrote:
GobertReport wrote:
KqWIN wrote:
And the league should abolish the draft too while they are at it...but not many can wrap their heads around that.


Hard cap would likely stop tanking and keep the draft.


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I don’t see how a hard cap stops tanking.


Disbursement of talent around the league, teams like Golden State would be a thing of the past.


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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2017-2018 

Post#911 » by Daddy 801 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:54 pm

KqWIN wrote:
Daddy 801 wrote:
KqWIN wrote:
And the league should abolish the draft too while they are at it...but not many can wrap their heads around that.


I have suggested it on this board for years. It is my idea. Never heard anyone else suggest it. It’s absolutely the answer. The players are limited resources. The market should be able to set their value like other resources. Yes, they are people and should have some freedom to go where they want, but their value should be set if they choose to hit the open market.


I am 100% on board with eliminating the draft as well. Let players decide where they go. Which also will go hand in hand with players being able to stay with the teams they want if they are willing to take less money.


I know what you’re thinking. Players taking discounts helps fuel superteams and is bad...but this is like using an atomic bomb when you can use a hammer. There are so many bad unintended consequences and things that won’t be made clear.

For one, market value is not so simple. A player might want to take 3/$24 instead of 1/$10. But which contract does he have to have now?

And what happens if the Jazz have $5M in cap and have an agreement to sign Bjelica with it all, but the Magic march in and say they want to to pay Bjelica $5.5. Were screwed and Bjelica is screwed because now he can’t play in Utah and has to play For Orlando. You can’t just force player to go places who have the most cap.

The more I think about it, I hate it even more. Totally unnecessary to create all these issues and completely unfair to the players. There is zero chance in hell the players agree to something that doesn’t allow them any chance ever to pick where they want to work.



That’s not true. Utah could still sign Bjelica. They would just have to clear 500,000$ to get the room sign him.

The argument over years could be solved various ways. We could allow players to choose how many years they want in their contract, but not money.

Keep thinking about it. You will come around.


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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2017-2018 

Post#912 » by zero24gravity » Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:45 pm

Daddy 801 wrote:
stitches wrote:
SoCalJazzFan wrote:I'd be surprised if the Lakers aren't the next superfriend superteam by the end of next week. As a fan outside of the couple of superteams, this really sucks! I hope the NBA does something to curtail this.

This is indeed such an abomination of a dynamic. How can a team suck so bad for so long, give some of the worst contracts in the league to horrible players and then wake up and be FA destination overnight, while teams like the Jazz have done everything right, have built their team the right way, haven't given albatrosses of contracts, have drafted well, have made smart free agent acquisitions and we still cannot even get a meeting with the top tier FAs. Complete and utter BS. If we cannot get a top tier FA this year or next, IMO it will never happen. We just will have to give up on the idea altogether and operate with the assumption that it will never happen. Just strike high end free agency as a strategy off our repertoire and just try to maximize the other ways of acquiring talent.


Until we get rid of max contracts, have a hard cap, and also make players hit the market and have all teams set their value we will never have a league with a level playing field.

The only team that should be able to get LeBron at a discount is Cleveland due to having bird rights(an max for LeBron is a discount). If he (or any free agent) chooses to leave the team with bird rights they should have to hit the open market and ANY team can then set his value. If Dallas said they were willing to pay LeBron 55 million then the Lakers should be forced to pay that much as well. The only way a team should be able to get around this is a sign and trade and Clev would then have incentive to SnT LeBron and get back assets. Every player should have to hit the open market and have their value set. This is the real answer. No player should be able to take a discount. They can sign anywhere they want as free agents, they just should never be allowed to take a lower value than their worth. I’ve been saying this is the answer for about 5 years. It’s the only way to fix things.


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Hard cap? Sure. Makes almost 100% sense. (luxury tax does really help some smaller market teams stay relevant, IMO.)

No max on contracts? Maybe, but then bad contracts become even worse, and strangle that team big time. Unless there's a way a team can buy out bad contracts, perhaps. The idea of forcing a player to play for whoever is willing to pay most is totally unrealistic & unfair though. (And I almost never take the side of the spoiled, overpaid, athlete.)

No draft? No-way, no how, nuh-uh! = Overpaying for "potential", players flocking to the big markets right out of the gates. (Many players end up liking places like Utah, Colorado, Minnesota, etc., once drafted there, but it's very unlikely would even give them a shot if not drafted there.) Smaller markets would have to gamble on overpaying for "potential", because it's the only way they players would come under most circumstances. Hate the no-draft idea. There's a reason that every professional sport has a draft. It promotes balance, rewards good FO's/talent evaluation, and allows teams to have a shot at landing top, young, talent despite demographics (unless the player is douchey and says he won't play/workout for certain teams, which is a growing issue, but has been around a while ... right Kobe?)
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2017-2018 

Post#913 » by Daddy 801 » Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:11 am

zero24gravity wrote:
Daddy 801 wrote:
stitches wrote:This is indeed such an abomination of a dynamic. How can a team suck so bad for so long, give some of the worst contracts in the league to horrible players and then wake up and be FA destination overnight, while teams like the Jazz have done everything right, have built their team the right way, haven't given albatrosses of contracts, have drafted well, have made smart free agent acquisitions and we still cannot even get a meeting with the top tier FAs. Complete and utter BS. If we cannot get a top tier FA this year or next, IMO it will never happen. We just will have to give up on the idea altogether and operate with the assumption that it will never happen. Just strike high end free agency as a strategy off our repertoire and just try to maximize the other ways of acquiring talent.


Until we get rid of max contracts, have a hard cap, and also make players hit the market and have all teams set their value we will never have a league with a level playing field.

The only team that should be able to get LeBron at a discount is Cleveland due to having bird rights(an max for LeBron is a discount). If he (or any free agent) chooses to leave the team with bird rights they should have to hit the open market and ANY team can then set his value. If Dallas said they were willing to pay LeBron 55 million then the Lakers should be forced to pay that much as well. The only way a team should be able to get around this is a sign and trade and Clev would then have incentive to SnT LeBron and get back assets. Every player should have to hit the open market and have their value set. This is the real answer. No player should be able to take a discount. They can sign anywhere they want as free agents, they just should never be allowed to take a lower value than their worth. I’ve been saying this is the answer for about 5 years. It’s the only way to fix things.


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No max on contracts? Maybe, but then bad contracts become even worse, and strangle that team big time. Unless there's a way a team can buy out bad contracts, perhaps. The idea of forcing a player to play for whoever is willing to pay most is totally unrealistic & unfair though. (And I almost never take the side of the spoiled, overpaid, athlete.)

No draft? No-way, no how, nuh-uh! = Overpaying for "potential", players flocking to the big markets right out of the gates. (Many players end up liking places like Utah, Colorado, Minnesota, etc., once drafted there, but it's very unlikely would even give them a shot if not drafted there.) Smaller markets would have to gamble on overpaying for "potential", because it's the only way they players would come under most circumstances. Hate the no-draft idea. There's a reason that every professional sport has a draft. It promotes balance, rewards good FO's/talent evaluation, and allows teams to have a shot at landing top, young, talent despite demographics (unless the player is douchey and says he won't play/workout for certain teams, which is a growing issue, but has been around a while ... right Kobe?)


No max on contracts does not strangle a team. All teams are on equal playing fields.

Let me be clear again. I am not saying that a player having his value set by the market means he has to play for that team. It means that player has to be paid that salary to the team he chooses.
For example- If LeBron pots out and hits the “open market” then all teams would have a shot to set his value. If the team with the most cap space says 50 million then if LeBron wants to go play for the Lakers he has to have a 50 million dollar salary. This prevents top tier players from getting contracts that underpay/undervalue the player. IF LeBron wants to be on LA and make less than the market dictates the only option he would have is to be traded by the team with his “bird rights”(bird rights would be a touch different under this system). So if LeBron wants to go to LA and make 30 million he would have to work with Cleveland to trade him. This system would benefit teams by rewarding teams for drafting well (or attracting better players by having a better development staff if we got rid of the draft). And teams would never truly be totally screwed when a top tier free agents leave. It would make super teams extremely hard to form.

It also stops veterans from taking smaller salaries and ring chasing. Another thing about superteams is all the vets just flock there and make it even easier for a team to win. Again, the only way to be paid less is to work with the team with the bird rights to trade that player to the team.



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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2017-2018 

Post#914 » by KqWIN » Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:16 pm

What’s worse, paying for potential, or losing an entire season for potential?

There’s only a finite amount of money you can spend. If the big markets want to sign the superstars, they can’t spend it on prospects. And if the superstars don’t want to take money from a team like Utah, Utah can spend it on the next wave of talent. The current way to access the talent is to lose on purpose or be terrible on accident.

All of these ideas are completely unrealistic btw. They assume the league is interested in creating the best competition. That’s not the goal. The goal is to make the most money...and the league is doing a fantastic job at that. It’s a great system that promotes the most amount of superstars in the best markets while also keeping the small markets profitable.
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2017-2018 

Post#915 » by zero24gravity » Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:04 pm

Daddy 801 wrote:
No max on contracts does not strangle a team. All teams are on equal playing fields.



Having the opportunity to have to pay a player even more, due to no contract max, opens up chances for even worse "Eddie Curry" contracts. So my point is, bad contracts could get even worse, which would strangle that team.

The Curry deal was simply bad ownership/management, but there are also a lot of bad contracts for other reasons (injury, paying for potential, etc.). Not having a cap on contracts would undoubtedly result in overpaying & creating more toxic contracts, league wide Which is why a safe-guard in place, such as a buy-out option would need to built into every contract for the "no max" contract to make sense to me.

Think of Greg Oden, for example. Teams would have been flocking to the guy to sign him at huge money ($20+ million a year?) based on potential. So he gets a crazy-high deal from some team who sees him as a franchise cornerstone for the next decade. Then the guy pretty much never plays due to injury, but the team is on the hook for a huge cap hit, which totally cripples them. The rookie scale + draft system saves teams from this type of situation.

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