Our Local Tank Commanders Should Be Turning Optimistic

[AingesBurner]

https://www.ksl.com/?sid=46197928&nid=294&title=ben-anderson-new-rule-may-force-jazz-to-tank-this-season&utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral

[Rauxcee]

I wonder... if December kills us(very possible) and we go 1-15 in that stretch... Maybe DL will give up and truly go after the tank. How bad do we need to be by end of the year in order for DL to realize this is the best course of action?

We are 6-8 right now. We have 23 games until the end of December:
@ NYK
@ BKN
@ ORL
@ PHI
vs CHI
vs MKE
vs DEN
@ LAC
vs NOP
vs WAS
@ OKC
vs HOU
@ MKE
@ CHI
@ BOS
@ CLE
@ HOU
@ OKC
vs SAS
vs OKC
@ DEN
@ GSW
vs CLE

How many do we win of those? Do we win 5? Lets say we do... then our record will be 11-26... Is this enough?

This will be the moment of truth IMO. This is when you will have the chance to try to go for a top 5 pick or not because the schedule becomes much easier in JAN...

There are only 3 games in that whole bunch that I favor the Jazz to win. I can see the Jazz losing all the rest. That's not saying the Jazz will only win 3, but it's a bleak outlook (as far as winning goes) especially without Gobert.

[stitches]

There are only 3 games in that whole bunch that I favor the Jazz to win. I can see the Jazz losing all the rest. That's not saying the Jazz will only win 3, but it's a bleak outlook (as far as winning goes) especially without Gobert.

Yeah, I am thinking the same - we will win a game here and there by getting hot or opponent missing, but overall I don't see many wins.

[Inigo Montoya]

How are we going to be better off winning 35 games instead of 25?

What kind of message do you send to your organisation, your season ticket holders, your sponsors, agents, players and fans if u raise a white flag as soon as the fighting starts?

Sure, we lack talent this season. No need to take away our balls though as we may never get them back.

We all know this team is going no where, and the organization knows it too. I can't imagine many fans and ticket holders are enjoying watching this season's team. Are you? In that sense, there is no difference between 25 and 35 wins, we're still playing ugly as all hell, even when we win. The message tanking sends is that this team is recognizing we lack talent--as you said--and is willing to do whatever it takes to get it so they can be more competitive in the future.

As for that players--which ones? Most of the players on this current roster will be gone within 2 seasons. Their agents should welcome a trade to a team that uses them properly, play to their strengths instead of exposing them and helps them increase their value instead of decrease it. And are we sending a better message to those who stay by letting them grind and exhaust themselves and risk injuries for a season that is going no where, and that this team is unwilling to give them help?

This season is not going to be attractive to fans no matter what. Even if the Jazz won't tank, we'll soon see a lot of empty seats in the arena. Might as well make the best out of the situation and build for the future so that next season won't go the same way.

[Dry Fly]

There is a time to shoot the moon in any game of spades. It is when you get dealt a completely **** hand early in the game and maybe a marginally **** hand later in the game and out of desperation you HAVE to go for it. If you have just a couple of good cards though you are going to fail.

If you shoot the moon with a marginal hand early in the game, it means you suck at spades and are just an impatient glory hound that ruins the game for everyone.

Now if the Jazz go 1-15 and it becomes transparent to shoot the moon I guess the prophet of doom can proudly wear a cape. If they do not and continue to be a marginal team not meeting expectations then no cape for you. Either way, I just don't get why anyone would embrace the role of a prophet of doom... nothing is gained other than the ability to say "I told you so" and all the bad things about the team you are supposedly a fan of have come true. Is that something that people actually desire? Or is it a emotional defense mechanism?

I think it is a defense mechanism because I can't see any Jazz fan really wanting doom and bad things to come true.

[outerspacefella]

This is an easy debate when you take away fan passion from it:
- we lack genuine talent; we big time lack it
- we are not getting it in free agency (we don't anticipate Lebron coming our way, do we?)
- we are not getting it from trades (we tend to lose assets in trades... we've given up 2 firsts for a bunch of Hill games + a 25% shooter)
- so... there's only one option left, isn't it?

[Rauxcee]

Now if the Jazz go 1-15 and it becomes transparent to shoot the moon I guess the prophet of doom can proudly wear a cape. If they do not and continue to be a marginal team not meeting expectations then no cape for you. Either way, I just don't get why anyone would embrace the role of a prophet of doom... nothing is gained other than the ability to say "I told you so" and all the bad things about the team you are supposedly a fan of have come true. Is that something that people actually desire? Or is it a emotional defense mechanism?

I think it is a defense mechanism because I can't see any Jazz fan really wanting doom and bad things to come true.

I don't think anyone wants to be a "prophet of doom" or is looking for validation. We are all fans and we all have different hopes, expectations, and opinions. Some of us are going to be right, and some of us are going to be wrong. Just because someone is critical of the direction of the team, doesn't making them a downer, hater, prophet of doom, etc.

I was very anti-tank as of 10 days ago. I was okay with the moves the Jazz made after Hayward left and I thought they had the talent to finish 6-8th in the west. As a fan, I was 100% okay with that (I don't think there is anything this organization can do to win a championship in reality). The first few games I thought the Jazz were possibly on tract to meat my expectations despite some rust and chemistry issues. I don't know what stats and such say, but the eye test says this team has gotten worse as the season has progressed. They look like they have regressed and are playing way under their talent. Some of that is the players just aren't that good after all, and some is the coach stubbornly using players incorrectly (Rubio). I've realized my expectations were way off and the next best thing other than making the playoffs is to get the best talent possible in the draft.

The draft and trades is the only way this team can get good talent. Free agency will never be a viable option. If the players we have currently have crap value (which is the case right now) trade isn't going to get you much either, so the only option left is the draft.

The Jazz should try to build up value for Favors, Burks, Hood and see what they can trade some of them for. I'm sure a playoff team will have use for Johnson and maybe we can get something for him. Don't rush Rudy, or anyone with an injury back, as there is no need this year unlike last year. If the Jazz lose, they lose. If they lose enough to get a pick in the 5-7 range, all the better. It doesn't make anyone bad players, coaches, fans, front office, etc. to be realistic about the team and to maximize potential for the future. Last year we were trying to win to keep Hayward, this year we don't need to do that, as the only players worth keeping are Gobert and Mitchell IMO. The Jazz are a bad team. It's okay to say that, and it's okay that they are a bad team as long as the FO takes the right steps going forward.

[eLo]

honestly i dont think we gonna tank, this season may just kill us and we would not to have loose with premeditation. In the end right now we dont have any leader, offens sucks and coach have no clue what to do about it. If things wont change there is no way we gonna win more than 30 games. Theoreticaly DL could rejuvenate this by puling some strings but knowing him if this will look as bad we gonna wait till summer, counting on draft, Fav/Hood will walk for nothing and all hopes will be in Mitchell

[outerspacefella]

I don't think there's anything a coach can do when guys out there are missing 3 on 4 open looks...
In fact there's probably no need to tank; just continue this way! I would love about 15 wins for this season!

[Dry Fly]

I don't think anyone wants to be a "prophet of doom" or is looking for validation. We are all fans and we all have different hopes, expectations, and opinions. Some of us are going to be right, and some of us are going to be wrong. Just because someone is critical of the direction of the team, doesn't making them a downer, hater, prophet of doom, etc.

I think everyone should be critical... the Jazz deserve it... and need it. But we are getting into fatalistic territory here.

The Jazz are a bad team. It's okay to say that, and it's okay that they are a bad team as long as the FO takes the right steps going forward.

They are swinging from awful to ok and back again. Panic button shouldn't be hit yet but maybe take the safety off.

As far as trades... yeah I'm with you on Hood... only problem is that we will probably add by subtraction the way he is playing.

Favs I would keep. Like you said we can't get talent here so let's not give away some of our best.

[MTJazzv3]

They are swinging from awful to ok and back again. Panic button shouldn't be hit yet but maybe take the safety off.

As far as trades... yeah I'm with you on Hood... only problem is that we will probably add by subtraction the way he is playing.

Favs I would keep. Like you said we can't get talent here so let's not give away some of our best.

The surreal moment when a Jazz fan realizes they should take the safety off and have a yard sale for everyone except Gobert and DM is an interesting thought - as one option for a way forward. The other option is that Q, the FO and players get their acts together. Some pieces need to be moved. The system needs tweaking. Wings who do this for a living need to start hitting wide open shots. Individual defensive break downs need to stop. The team needs a really good sports psychologist. And hot yoga. And a return of Joe Jesus.

[Daddy 801]

At this point I'm shocked anyone is still making the case for anything other than a full on tank.


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[Dry Fly]

The surreal moment when a Jazz fan realizes they should take the safety off and have a yard sale for everyone except Gobert and DM is an interesting thought - as one option for a way forward. The other option is that Q, the FO and players get their acts together. Some pieces need to be moved. The system needs tweaking. Wings who do this for a living need to start hitting wide open shots. Individual defensive break downs need to stop. The team needs a really good sports psychologist. And hot yoga. And a return of Joe Jesus.

I think it's safe to say that Plan A is in doubt. Plan B? For some reason our forum likes to play pretend and that Plan B is tanking.

Plan B will be minor tweaking at the most. My bet (hope) is that Hood gets traded pre deadline. DM is going to be the guy. That is pretty obvious. This team will live or die by Rubio. Let's see if he has the chops.

[stitches]

Come on, lets do this...

[MTJazzv3]

My bet (hope) is that Hood gets traded pre deadline. DM is going to be the guy. That is pretty obvious. This team will live or die by Rubio. Let's see if he has the chops.

Good call. I could see Hood and Favors in the rear-view mirror. Situations are different. Favs just doesn't fit fit with Rudy. Hood is in CJ Miles Land and won't be more than a fringe starter or bench heater as he gets older and better. Favs still could be huge on another team.

[AingesBurner]

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[Crunch 99]

Some of our tank commanders are getting downright frisky. Daddy 801 has pulled his tank out its hiding place deep in the woods and is now brazenly driving the darn thing out on open roads like he is Richard from Gas Monkey Garage driving a hot rod.

Are you still opposing the tank?

Given Gobert, Exum and JJ's absence, Rubio's bad fit with Quin, Hood's failure to advance to his game, December's toughest schedule in the NBA (and the second toughest remaining schedule in the NBA), we are going to lose a boatload of games the next six weeks, consistent with a tank, because the active roster is terrible, not because the front office or Quin has made a conscious decision to tank. So for the next six weeks, I am fine with Quin continuing to do what he has been doing, experimenting with lineups, trying to develop players and trying to win as many games as possible, and I expect that we will still lose enough games to be in the competition for one of the worst teams.

Perhaps the only pressing decision at the moment is whether to try to feature Favors in the offense to gain trade value for him, though given his expiring contract, I am not certain how much trade value he can bring even if he managed to average 16 and 10 the next little while. I am only open to trading Favors because I believe Favors will want to sign somewhere else next summer rather than stay here where his game is likely to be constrained.

The first of the year will be the time when some big decisions come up: How fast to bring Gobert back, who to trade and who to play. By then, I expect we will have lost enough games that this season will be a lost cause (even with Quin having been trying to do everything he can to win), and I will be fine at that point with both trading and playing lineups with an eye towards winning in future seasons rather than maximizing wins this season.

So I am OK with this mode of tank that has been developing. Our hope and future is a very competitive team two or three seasons away led by DM, Gobert and a yet to be determined third player. Go Jazz!!!

[outerspacefella]

This is the most appealing Jazz season in years! Finally the Tank is here! This thread is music in my ears! Luka, Michael, Marvin, Deandre oh yeah! Michael, Marvin, Luka, Deandre yeaah gimme dope gimmme my dose!!!

[stitches]

This is the most appealing Jazz season in years! Finally the Tank is here! This thread is music in my ears! Luka, Michael, Marvin, Deandre oh yeah! Michael, Marvin, Luka, Deandre yeaah gimme dope gimmme my dose!!!

What are you gonna do with Gobert if you draft Ayton?

[KqWIN]

Even if we aren’t favored in the next 16 games I’d still expect to win 4 or 5 of them. Teams drop games to bad teams all the time. Rubio will have better shooting nights if he keeps shooting.

I don’t think it’ll be enough to shift direction. We don’t really have much to shift direction at this point. The cubbard is barren, and the guys we would trade are worth nothing.