Game 14: Minnesota Timberwolves (7-5) @ Utah Jazz (6-7)

[KqWIN]

Neto really knows how to play. Great effort from him tonight.

[sipclip]

I freaking love the way this season is going. Every thing is setting up perfectly for Lindsey to sell off assets and get a high pick. We should see a heck of a lot more games like this over the next month.

[dautjazz]

Hood should of played more. I'm really disgusted with the way the team is playing in general, but I definitely liked the hustle at the end. Mitchell is amazing!

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[Rauxcee]

This stealth tank line up scrappy line up played with a lot of fight. Most entertaining quarter of the game.

[dautjazz]

Jerebko has the 3, goes for the drive, has the layup, passes it out. Lol.

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[KqWIN]

Spirited effort from the bench group...That's really all you can ask for from this team.

[stra0448]

The Jazz need an identity. A Rubio/Favors pick and roll is better offense than Mitchell/Hood isolations. Rubio is having the worst games of his career (tonight and vs. PHI) because he doesn't have the ball nearly enough. The Jazz are way too slow getting rebounds to him. He's shooting bad, but he's not playing in rhythm.

[KqWIN]

Rubio PnR is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. He gains no advantage in the PnR, but he also provides no spacing off the ball. This is turning into the Exum situation where people are blaming the system for his lack of usage. Just like Exum, it's a lack of ability that's limiting his involvement. Rubio can do as much or as little as he wants, but the fact of the matter is that he is terrible at capitalizing on the opportunities that system creates. He's the absolute worst type of PG to be playing here.

There is no place for him in Utah unless there is a complete overhaul in the way we play. Even if we had the overhaul, the surrounding players around wouldn't fit in any system and he'd still struggle.

[MTJazzv3]

Guess I am going to tank.
https://youtu.be/qvG7FM_oFGA

Yeah, I got there. Now it is about the quality of the tank engine. We have no one besides Donovan to develop at the moment so it could get ugly.

[LesGrossman]

Rubio PnR is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. He gains no advantage in the PnR, but he also provides no spacing off the ball. This is turning into the Exum situation where people are blaming the system for his lack of usage. Just like Exum, it's a lack of ability that's limiting his involvement. Rubio can do as much or as little as he wants, but the fact of the matter is that he is terrible at capitalizing on the opportunities that system creates. He's the absolute worst type of PG to be playing here.

There is no place for him in Utah unless there is a complete overhaul in the way we play. Even if we had the overhaul, the surrounding players around wouldn't fit in any system and he'd still struggle.

I dont know why you keep repeating this when it is obvious by the results that it isnt true. This aint no computer game, you dont need the Curry "pull up from the logo" to "gain an advantage" in the pnr. This is his 7th season and those who watched him know that no matter how the defense sets up for the pnr he will create an open shot for the roll man or the guy covered by the helper. Its inexplicable that Snyder makes the same mistakes Thibs did for half a season. Simply inexplicable.

[stitches]

Rubio PnR is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. He gains no advantage in the PnR, but he also provides no spacing off the ball. This is turning into the Exum situation where people are blaming the system for his lack of usage. Just like Exum, it's a lack of ability that's limiting his involvement. Rubio can do as much or as little as he wants, but the fact of the matter is that he is terrible at capitalizing on the opportunities that system creates. He's the absolute worst type of PG to be playing here.

There is no place for him in Utah unless there is a complete overhaul in the way we play. Even if we had the overhaul, the surrounding players around wouldn't fit in any system and he'd still struggle.

I dont know why you keep repeating this when it is obvious by the results that it isnt true. This aint no computer game, you dont need the Curry "pull up from the logo" to "gain an advantage" in the pnr. This is his 7th season and those who watched him know that no matter how the defense sets up for the pnr he will create an open shot for the roll man or the guy covered by the helper. Its inexplicable that Snyder makes the same mistakes Thibs did for half a season. Simply inexplicable.

You "don't need the Curry "pull up from the logo" to "gain an advantage" in the pnr"... but you do need the defender to follow you over a screen, which Rubio cannot do, and you need to make the big step up to cut off penetration to the rim... which Rubio cannot do, or you need to punish the small for going under, which he cannot do, or he needs to punish the big for not stepping up using the space he's given going to the rim, which Rubio cannot do...

He's also not great one on one player so he can't create advantage going 1-on-1. I'm beginning to wonder if Rubio fits any modern day system really. Just... defenses are way too smart nowadays. The combination of lack of shooting and lack of finishing at the rim is really a damning one. This is why I thought Exum was on his way to steal Rubio's job during the season... had he stayed healthy. I think he can at least punish opponents at the rim and he can attack and create advantage with his speed. Rubio can't do any of those things.

[LesGrossman]

Rubio PnR is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. He gains no advantage in the PnR, but he also provides no spacing off the ball. This is turning into the Exum situation where people are blaming the system for his lack of usage. Just like Exum, it's a lack of ability that's limiting his involvement. Rubio can do as much or as little as he wants, but the fact of the matter is that he is terrible at capitalizing on the opportunities that system creates. He's the absolute worst type of PG to be playing here.

There is no place for him in Utah unless there is a complete overhaul in the way we play. Even if we had the overhaul, the surrounding players around wouldn't fit in any system and he'd still struggle.

I dont know why you keep repeating this when it is obvious by the results that it isnt true. This aint no computer game, you dont need the Curry "pull up from the logo" to "gain an advantage" in the pnr. This is his 7th season and those who watched him know that no matter how the defense sets up for the pnr he will create an open shot for the roll man or the guy covered by the helper. Its inexplicable that Snyder makes the same mistakes Thibs did for half a season. Simply inexplicable.

You "don't need the Curry "pull up from the logo" to "gain an advantage" in the pnr"... but you do need the defender to follow you over a screen, which Rubio cannot do. He's also not great one on one player so he can't create advantage going 1-on-1. I'm beginning to wonder if Rubio fits any modern day system really. Just... defenses are way too smart nowadays. The combination of lack of shooting and lack of finishing at the rim is really a damning one. This is why I thought Exum was on his way to steal Rubio's job during the season... had he stayed healthy. I think he can at least punish opponents at the rim and he can attack and create advantage with his speed. Rubio can't do any of those things.

Well maybe we should simply count the number of pnr played with Favors and see the number of great shots resulting to verify this theory? Because in the end thats all that matters. Rubio doesnt stun defenses with his pull up shot but NO defense ignores his dribble drive attack, in fact he draws two defenders often enough, resulting in short pocket passes. You do NOT need the defender to go over, thats just not true. Tony Parker, Rondo would never had any success if it was. The screen alone, even if going under, already shakes up the defense and gives the advantage he needs to penetrate and put the defender on his heels. We just need to go to the previous game to actually see it work. Why go away from something that works?

[stitches]

Rondo is a dinosaur and Parker had a pull up jumper you had to respect. Rondo's game hasn't worked the last 5 years. Also, Parker was one of the best PGs attacking space and attacking the rim. There is no comparison between him and Rubio. They shouldn't ever be put in the same sentence.

Watch what from the previous game? A BKN team that doesn't even care to defend? Sure, you will get a team once every 10 games that's not well prepared or out of it and you gonna make some things happen. Why take the previous one game and not the 5 before it? Or the one today? What's the difference? It's not in the way we played. We play the same way every time. This is the NBA. Rubio is a talented player and will have good-to-great games once in a while. The question is can he do it consistently? Over the long run I don't see Rubio as a PG-solution for this team... especially if you have Gobert at the 5. I've been saying this since day -365. Rubio is an extremely hard PG to build both a team and a system around in the modern day NBA. We don't have the personnel and we don't have the system for it. It's much easier to just change the PG than to change all the rest of the team. Rubio is good but he's not good enough to make you build your whole team around him. At the end of the day it will come down to Rubio or Gobert and the Jazz will choose Gobert. EASILY!

[LesGrossman]

Rondo is a dinosaur and Parker had a pull up jumper you had to respect. Rondo's game hasn't worked the last 5 years. Also, Parker was one of the best PGs attacking space and attacking the rim. There is no comparison between him and Rubio. They shouldn't ever be put in the same sentence.

Watch what from the previous game? A BKN team that doesn't even care to defend? Sure, you will get a team once every 10 games that's not well prepared or out of it and you gonna make some things happen. Why take the previous one game and not the 5 before it? Or the one today? What's the difference? It's not in the way we played. We play the same way every time. This is the NBA. Rubio is a talented player and will have good-to-great games once in a while. The question is can he do it consistently? Over the long run I don't see Rubio as a PG-solution for this team... especially if you have Gobert at the 5. I've been saying this since day -365. Rubio is an extremely hard PG to build both a team and a system around in the modern day NBA. We don't have the personnel and we don't have the system for it. It's much easier to just change the PG than to change all the rest of the team. Rubio is good but he's not good enough to make you build your whole team around him. At the end of the day it will come down to Rubio or Gobert and the Jazz will choose Gobert. EASILY!

Thats not even what i'm talking about. If theres no Gobert why would you not go to what works though? Wether Gobert can offensively work at all without a good iso scorer is yet to be proven. Just like a PG works easier in the pnr if he has a reliable jumper (Ricky does have good % from midrange btw), a screener needs to be able to exploit the switch, post up and score in the low post, something Gobert cant do for his life.

Today, with no Gobert, Rubio/Favors is the best offensive option by a mile, and add to that the defense and rebounding he gives you. Instead, park him in the corner and punish him with little playing time because he's not Klay Thompson (surprise surprise) isnt a smart move imho.

[stitches]

Thats not even what i'm talking about. If theres no Gobert why would you not go to what works though? Wether Gobert can offensively work at all without a good iso scorer is yet to be proven. Just like a PG works easier in the pnr if he has a reliable jumper (Ricky does have good % from midrange btw), a screener needs to be able to exploit the switch, post up and score in the low post, something Gobert cant do for his life.

Today, with no Gobert, Rubio/Favors is the best offensive option by a mile, and add to that the defense and rebounding he gives you. Instead, park him in the corner and punish him with little playing time because he's not Klay Thompson (surprise surprise) isnt a smart move imho.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I don't think what we are doing is optimizing our talent right now either. I was talking more big picture.

[Andri]

Horrible game from our key ball-handlers, Rubio, Ingles, and, I would add, Snyder.

On one hand, Thibs plans every game and try to play other teams to their weaknesses. It worked tonight, and Quin did nothing to change that. They wanted us to shoot 3’s, and we shot 40, season record. The second highest was 39 against Philly, no surprise it was the second ugliest game so far. In no game last season Jazz shot so many 3’s.

What drives me mad about this game is that we didn’t play to Wolves weaknesses. They are one of the worst defending the pick&roll, especially with Teague and Towns, and protecting the rim. Our core plan tonight should have been Ricky and Favors P&R to death, with Ingles, Mitchell, Hood and Jerebko spacing the court. Don’t tell it wouldn’t have worked because of Rubio’s shooting, because we simply didn’t try it. We try to play isos instead, with Wiggins on Mitchell, or P&R against Butler, their best defender.

On the other, I don’t know what’s happening with Rubio and Ingles shooting. Rubio has been abysmal last 6 games after a great start, well behind his averages. And yesterday Ingles’ line was brutal, 0 points? I also think some of our consistency problems are related to the system, that don’t put our players consistently in their preferred spots where they have a the highest FG %.

I truly think we need to increase the talent if someday we want to have a run in PO's, but this team is better than it looks right now, or at least, it's not so bad. I suppose it's a work in progress, and in the meantime, we tank for a high pick, and we trade some assests for more ping pong balls

[FJS]

The worst thing is there's a few teams that are sucking like us. Clippers, lakers, thunder, are neck to neck (Pacers, Heat and Hornets in the east) and mavs, hawks, bulls, kings and suns are still worse than us.

[eLo]

3 key guys screw up this and we have such result, but i can justify Ricky as he played against his ex team so they probably know how to stop him from good Neto and Jerebko look nice they should get more playing time as they are really good shoters and we need this as air

[Inigo Montoya]

It wasn't only that we had trouble scoring from long range, but we had our penetration shots blocked and our passing lanes intercepted all game long. We were outmatched the whole game. And as much as the 4th quarter rally was nice to see, the Wolves give such runs constantly, they are terrible at closing games.

[LesGrossman]

I just dont get why the staff is so stubborn and insists in running something that obviously isnt working now and isnt going to work in the future. That doesnt mean that with the personnel, this team couldnt perform way above average. Being a coach i am used to the situation of having to adapt to who you get and what they can do, every year. Gotta be a bit flexible, one cannot just claim that the system is god given and everything has to fall in place around it. The problem is the offense, but not only that. The shots that we get result in misses and fast breaks because the defense is set perfectly for rebounding and filling lanes. With all the iso and long shots we dont shake up the d, create mismatches, advantages or confusion. The weak offense leaks into bad start of the next defensive situation. Our best safety guy is certainly Rubio who can stop everyone for one or two seconds, and he has the longest way to get back because he is parked in the corner. Our bigs are caught in no mans land because they arent supposed to crash the offensive board nor are they fast enough to stop the break. I dont get the whole concept right now. It looks good exactly if you make a lot of your shots because none of the potential transition problems materializes. Thats why the exact same thing, once the % goes down, looks so awful.

Accept that this isnt the Spurs. Many of the players dont have the ability to make quick, good decisions, but some, like Hood, Donovan, Thabo or Favors, are specialists. Use them to their strengths, dont force them into roles they arent comfortable with. No rocket science really. And even if they think they need to get rid of Rubio and/or Favors, their value should be maximized. By misusing them they become virtually untradable.