Game 40: Utah Jazz (16-23) @ Miami Heat (21-17)

[outerspacefella]

How many situations have Mitchell tasted and sweated by now?
How many L's away from a top pick are we today?
I like the way DM and Hood are being challenged.
I like the way our coaching is evolving.

[vryadli]

simply ashamed. some guys just regressed for last years.
I'm afraid Mitchell become a Richmond, Cousins kind of player. a pretty good one in a bad franchise always losing.

Though I'd rather said the team regressed like a whole after the first 5-10 games of the season. And that can be only on coac - and not only during the game.

Quinn reminds Pitino stunt with Celtics more and more. Good beginning followed by full disaster.

[LesGrossman]

How many situations have Mitchell tasted and sweated by now?
How many L's away from a top pick are we today?
I like the way DM and Hood are being challenged.
I like the way our coaching is evolving.

That was fun. Yeah if this was a dedicated development/tanking season, all the above. Otherwise, just poor. And also i dont like the signals sent to Mitchell. I'm afraid we're about to spoil a kid that was at the same time very talented, serious and humble. Keep repeating how amazing he is, keep putting the fate of the team in his hands and soon enough you'll have another chest pounding, screaming dude with an ego that can be spotted from outer space (no pun intended ). And Hood? Is he being challenged? He just does what he wants wether it works or not. Thats not coaching in my book.

[MTJazzv3]

Interesting game commentary. I actually thought it was a really good game and the Jazz played well for the most part. I was struck once again though by how many good shooters there are in the league - Miami looked solid with the modern NBA game of endless wings who can hit. I'm not hanging much on Snyder - he can't shoot for the guys. Going to be a painful rest of the season if Hood and Burks stay this erratic and DM the only reason to watch games.

[Inigo Montoya]

I'm not hanging much on Snyder - he can't shoot for the guys.

But he can design and call plays for them that will create better quality shots for them. That's his job. Instead, he let the team inbound the ball to the wrong side of the court with time winding down and force a tough shot, instead of calling another timeout and set a better play.

[outerspacefella]

Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder... I say Quin tends to overcoach, other fellow posters say he doesn't coach enough... life is good!

[Inigo Montoya]

Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder... I say Quin tends to overcoach, other fellow posters say he doesn't coach enough... life is good!

Which part of the last Jazz play and not calling a timeout was over-coaching? Or letting Hood barely avoid an 8 second violation and launch a 3 with a hand in his face with no one else touching the ball?

The two aren't mutually exclusive. You can say Snyder tends to over-coach in general, while pointing to specific instances where he under-coaches like in the Heat game.

[outerspacefella]

How many situations have Mitchell tasted and sweated by now?
How many L's away from a top pick are we today?
I like the way DM and Hood are being challenged.
I like the way our coaching is evolving.

That was fun. Yeah if this was a dedicated development/tanking season, all the above. Otherwise, just poor. And also i dont like the signals sent to Mitchell. I'm afraid we're about to spoil a kid that was at the same time very talented, serious and humble. Keep repeating how amazing he is, keep putting the fate of the team in his hands and soon enough you'll have another chest pounding, screaming dude with an ego that can be spotted from outer space (no pun intended ). And Hood? Is he being challenged? He just does what he wants wether it works or not. Thats not coaching in my book.

- No one would admit it, yet IT IS a tanking season... a good tanking season... a tank the right way
- A little faith in humble people is a good thing to have
- It really is a players game... make shots and you will win a lot of games
- More often than not our coaches ways put good shots in our guys hands
- In my book Don should have take some kind of a pull up trey out off the dribble... once the play starts, just take your best shot from where it's more probable the defense would give you some space...

[vryadli]

- It really is a players game... make shots and you will win a lot of games

Not at all. You always can make a lot of shots but allow more shots. Look on Kanter stats f.e. He makes shots all right - and has very decent negative +/-.

Now we have Kanter-team in Utah. And looks like that's OK for almost everyone.

[Inigo Montoya]

- It really is a players game... make shots and you will win a lot of games

Not at all. You always can make a lot of shots but allow more shots. Look on Kanter stats f.e. He makes shots all right - and has very decent negative +/-.

Now we have Kanter-team in Utah. And looks like that's OK for almost everyone.

Under your analogy, a Kanter-team should be able to score and rebound. The Jazz are 27th in PPG, 25th in total rebounds, and 23rd in FG%. We're essentially a Kanter-team minus the scoring, the rebounding and the high FG percentages...

[outerspacefella]

I guess somehow lines like "there's two sides of the court" have been understood by many as an indicator that basketball is comprised of two different stages, D and O, a la NFL.
Basketabll is ONE game, ONE sport. You cannot simply be excellent at D or excellent at O, as these two "sides" of the game compliment each other all the time, without a separation between them.
Make shots and I can assure you the other team will have to use a lot of its energy to defend you, and then they won't be as good an offensive unit as they would be if you don't make your shots.
I said it a couple times: you still need to put one more point than the other team. You still need a minimal amount of offense, ou still need to make shots at a decent rate.

[outerspacefella]

Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder... I say Quin tends to overcoach, other fellow posters say he doesn't coach enough... life is good!

Which part of the last Jazz play and not calling a timeout was over-coaching? Or letting Hood barely avoid an 8 second violation and launch a 3 with a hand in his face with no one else touching the ball?

The two aren't mutually exclusive. You can say Snyder tends to over-coach in general, while pointing to specific instances where he under-coaches like in the Heat game.

I don't think anyone yell at Hood not to pick a timeout once he got iced with the basketball. Players make choices, and they've got to learn to do them efficiently in clutch situations. He trusted himself to get the ball up court in time and he did it; then he choose a play and miss the shot. It happens.

About the last play, all signs point to Snyder being good with Mitchell getting the ball where he got it. Snyder inmediately call for an open floor for Mitchell, but Hood did not react as he brought another MIA man into Donovan's path.

The textbook probably would have called for a timeout here or there. But textbooks make erudites, not clutch players.

Of course, just MHO.

[vryadli]

I guess somehow lines like "there's two sides of the court" have been understood by many as an indicator that basketball is comprised of two different stages, D and O, a la NFL.
Basketabll is ONE game, ONE sport. You cannot simply be excellent at D or excellent at O, as these two "sides" of the game compliment each other all the time, without a separation between them.
Make shots and I can assure you the other team will have to use a lot of its energy to defend you, and then they won't be as good an offensive unite as they would be if you don't make your shots.
I said it a couple times: you still need to put one more point than the other team. You still need a minimal amount of offense, ou still need to make shots at a decent rate.

O yes! Any All-Stars games shows that clearly! A lot of made shots, so the defense is great. Moreover - any team with great offence always is among the best defensive teams. And if all that is not enough for some stubborn heads, we have Kanter, Boozer and Carmelo as a final proof!

[vryadli]

Under your analogy, a Kanter-team should be able to score and rebound. The Jazz are 27th in PPG, 25th in total rebounds, and 23rd in FG%. We're essentially a Kanter-team minus the scoring, the rebounding and the high FG percentages...

Wow! I never checked rebounding - kind of took it for granted... It is further downhill than I thought... when team with good rebounders doesn't have rebounds... you can have bad shooting nights even if you gives your best efforts, sometimes to much efforts hurt you percentage, but variations in rebounding of a given player on a given team are direct function of effort and attitude.

[KqWIN]

Gee...I wonder if missing that French dude has anything to do with the defense “only” being 10th in the league. Meanwhile the Jazz are 23rd in offense.

There’s good reason as to why people are worried about the offense. How anyone can suggest we have a Kanter like team, meaning good at offense and bad at defense, is beyond me.

[KqWIN]

I'm not hanging much on Snyder - he can't shoot for the guys.

But he can design and call plays for them that will create better quality shots for them. That's his job. Instead, he let the team inbound the ball to the wrong side of the court with time winding down and force a tough shot, instead of calling another timeout and set a better play.

That’s like a 0.1 second decision. Even if he wanted to get the TO the refs wouldn’t have called it. There was bad execution by everyone involved.

I was mad in the moment, but it’s clear that there were multiple fails by the players and you can’t expect a coach to call a TO on a dime like that. Favors whiffed the screen, singles threw a horrible pass, and Mitchell went too early and missed the wide open man.

The players play the game. Just before that Joe missed a wide open three. Mitchell got picked for a TO and had multiple defensive breakdowns. If there’s one factor to blame, it’s getting flame broiled on the perimeter. Hood lost his mind, waved off Mitchell, and hoisted up a horrible shot.

If the players don’t mess up, nobody is here praising Quin for the win. Now that the players did, we’re blaming him for their mistakes. Everybody, including Quin, is responsible for how that game ended.

[LesGrossman]

I'm not hanging much on Snyder - he can't shoot for the guys.

But he can design and call plays for them that will create better quality shots for them. That's his job. Instead, he let the team inbound the ball to the wrong side of the court with time winding down and force a tough shot, instead of calling another timeout and set a better play.

That’s like a 0.1 second decision. Even if he wanted to get the TO the refs wouldn’t have called it. There was bad execution by everyone involved.

I was mad in the moment, but it’s clear that there were multiple fails by the players and you can’t expect a coach to call a TO on a dime like that. Favors whiffed the screen, singles threw a horrible pass, and Mitchell went too early and missed the wide open man.

The players play the game. Just before that Joe missed a wide open three. Mitchell got picked for a TO and had multiple defensive breakdowns. If there’s one factor to blame, it’s getting flame broiled on the perimeter. Hood lost his mind, waved off Mitchell, and hoisted up a horrible shot.

If the players don’t mess up, nobody is here praising Quin for the win. Now that the players did, we’re blaming him for their mistakes. Everybody, including Quin, is responsible for how that game ended.

You're turning it the way you want to. Its not the players who decide the five on the floor. Its not the players who decide that they go 1 on 1 iso to finish every close game. At some point the players need to be held accountable, at some point the head coach has to be held accountable. Cant bail both out all the time just because you like the coach, or that particular player who messed up. BTW its not true that the coaches get no praise for doing a good job, quite the opposite. Brad Stevens for example is showing how its done over there in Boston.

[KqWIN]

But he can design and call plays for them that will create better quality shots for them. That's his job. Instead, he let the team inbound the ball to the wrong side of the court with time winding down and force a tough shot, instead of calling another timeout and set a better play.

That’s like a 0.1 second decision. Even if he wanted to get the TO the refs wouldn’t have called it. There was bad execution by everyone involved.

I was mad in the moment, but it’s clear that there were multiple fails by the players and you can’t expect a coach to call a TO on a dime like that. Favors whiffed the screen, singles threw a horrible pass, and Mitchell went too early and missed the wide open man.

The players play the game. Just before that Joe missed a wide open three. Mitchell got picked for a TO and had multiple defensive breakdowns. If there’s one factor to blame, it’s getting flame broiled on the perimeter. Hood lost his mind, waved off Mitchell, and hoisted up a horrible shot.

If the players don’t mess up, nobody is here praising Quin for the win. Now that the players did, we’re blaming him for their mistakes. Everybody, including Quin, is responsible for how that game ended.

You're turning it the way you want to. Its not the players who decide the five on the floor. Its not the players who decide that they go 1 on 1 iso to finish every close game. At some point the players need to be held accountable, at some point the head coach has to be held accountable. Cant bail both out all the time just because you like the coach, or that particular player who messed up. BTW its not true that the coaches get no praise for doing a good job, quite the opposite. Brad Stevens for example is showing how its done over there in Boston.

But it is the players responsibility to control what they can control. Like I was saying, there is so much that they controlled and failed at. Everybody is responsible for not performing.

Quin was not perfect, and he was out coached by Spo, but you cannot say the players weren’t in a position to win. The players failed to execute time and time again. That is on them.

[outerspacefella]

I guess somehow lines like "there's two sides of the court" have been understood by many as an indicator that basketball is comprised of two different stages, D and O, a la NFL.
Basketabll is ONE game, ONE sport. You cannot simply be excellent at D or excellent at O, as these two "sides" of the game compliment each other all the time, without a separation between them.
Make shots and I can assure you the other team will have to use a lot of its energy to defend you, and then they won't be as good an offensive unite as they would be if you don't make your shots.
I said it a couple times: you still need to put one more point than the other team. You still need a minimal amount of offense, ou still need to make shots at a decent rate.

O yes! Any All-Stars games shows that clearly! A lot of made shots, so the defense is great. Moreover - any team with great offence always is among the best defensive teams. And if all that is not enough for some stubborn heads, we have Kanter, Boozer and Carmelo as a final proof!

Oh... don't cheat the argument ... All Star games doesn't count... and Melo playing only half basketball (and not that great either) is, in any case, a point for my argument: you've got to play a minimal decent game all court long.

[MTJazzv3]

Passionate fans, work colleagues, sometimes friends and the wife will need a scapegoat to focus their frustration on. Human nature. But the Jazz are a billion dollar asset that is going to be in Utah for a long time, (thanks, Gale). The lowest form of fandom, as in life, is pointing at one person in a large machine and blaming them for not meeting your expectations. Life is more complicated than that, so is business and sports. The Quin is the Problem theory is trash. The problem with the Jazz is they lost Haywood at the last moment, Rudy has been off the court more than on and Exum never got a chance this season. Thank god Mitchell is Spida - otherwise a fairly complete bust 2017-18 season. The sum didn't add up to the parts and that was the only Jazz option for being relevant. Didn't happen.

I hope the Jazz finish strong and playoffs do not need to be included. The reality is the Jazz wings aren't on par with the league bullies, the roster is awkward as for fits and of course the injury bug needed to show up again. It is a long game to create relevance from broken plans and gambles, (thanks, Haywood). Not buying gloom and doom as long as Rudy gets healthy and DM keeps being DM. Next year the roster will be different. Wash. Repeat. LeBron ain't coming to Utah so next best thing is to constantly re-tool and try and hit a rich vein.