Miro to Jazz and is this enough to turn things around

[SoCalJazzFan]

Some statistical analysis of what the Jazz might be giving up either for their own pick (most likely mid-lottery to mid-first round) or if they were able to secure a late first round pick from another team for their own players (unlikely).
http://www.82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm (late first rounders have less than 6% chance of becoming stars, and less than 50% of becoming role players).
https://www.econ.berkeley.edu/sites/default/files/AdhirajWatave_Thesis.pdf

[SoCalJazzFan]

One more thing to consider, there will be several teams with multiple first round picks in the 2018 draft. Moving up will not be as easy as other drafts. So, acquiring a late 1st round pick will get you most likely just that, a late draft pick.

[Daddy 801]

I'd rather let Favors walk if it is this deal or nothing.

Couldn’t agree more.

If we send a protected pick we CAN NOT send another pick for the next few years in a trade. All of the sudden a player becomes available we want on a nice long contract and we are out of the negotiations. All for a player who we have for a year. Makes no damn sense. I don’t care if the pick is top 29 protected. It’s not worth losing the flexibility. Not for Mirotic. Trade Favs for a late and play Jerebko. For all we know Jerebko starts putting up similar numbers and then we trade him for an asset and sign Mirotic after next season. It’s mind boggling to me people would be willing to give away a protected first for Mirotic. It would be as dumb as Boston giving us an asset at the beginning of last season for Hayward. If you know a player wants to come to your organization you don’t give up an asset to get that player.


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[eLo]

from my perspective Jonas>>>Iliasova, Mirotic is inconsistent, not reliable defender etc. but he is much better player than Ersan, who probably will be gone soon. Mirotic still got some prospect talent, and got very good contract. Overall i think swap Fav for Miro should be enough as Derick is better player, but i guess we have much bigger need than Bulls as they are in full rebuild mode

[KqWIN]

There's no point in Illyasova. He's not as good as Jerebko or Thabo. Even if you think he is it can't be by that much.

IMO, the only point in getting Mirotic is that you think he is a significant upgrade AND a long term piece. I don't think people who want him see him as a rental. They see him as a player who wants to be here and can excel.

Adding onto that, you only deal him for pieces that you do not consider part of the future of this team. I've been wanting Mirotic for some time, but the Jazz should not consider giving up their first round pick for him. If that's the cost, you wait.

[dr0welf]

Mirotic would be a good fit next to Gobert and add another dimension to our offense with a pick and pop option. Right now we don't really have that with even Favors. If I look at our draft picks over the past 10 years, who would you take instead of Mirotic as a solid compliment on this team? Spida is the sure thing, Hayward was better then sliced bread, Gobert, AK in 99, but Exum hasn't stayed healthy enough to hit his potential. Kanter was good offensively but defensively not so much. In 20 years I would rank 3-5 players that I would pick above Mirotic; especially for the fit on the team.

Very rarely do you get a rookie like Spida and I don't expect us to draft that good again for years as he is the exceptional draft choice. So if we are honest in our drafting capabilities where does Mirotic stand compared to what we would be not willing to give up to get (a 1st round pick)?

[Stern Fixer]

Forget Ilyasova, I've always coveted Belinelli:

Watch on YouTube

Old man's got ice water running through his veins and one of the sweetest strokes on the planet.

[dr0welf]

I'll pass on both Ilyasova and Belinelli.

[Daddy 801]

I'll pass on both Ilyasova and Belinelli.

Huge pass. Why are we talking about guys who don’t fit our timeline and are tread options.


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[Cappy_Smurf]

Thought this would be an appropriate place to post. He looks like a legit enough Jazz source -

Read on Twitter

Checketts is a hack. This is Woj's rumor, and he's just jumping on the bandwagon. He does the same **** every year.

I'm not sure he's a hack. He probably has some sources... he just doesn't go out there searching for news so he just confirms with them when he hears something big.

I was listening to him today talk about the Mirotic rumors. He is really amazed that Mirotic was able to get a NTC with absolutely no clue that it is a stipulation of the contract he signed and that it would apply to anyone who signed a one year deal.

Therefore, he thinks Utah has leverage because Mirotic wants to come to Utah and has a NTC, kinda like the Melo situation. He said that, and then went on to say he thinks he might give Favors and a top 15 protected FRP for Mirotic, or Favors and 2 seconds.

Hack is probably a fair assessment.

[AingesBurner]

Checketts is a hack. This is Woj's rumor, and he's just jumping on the bandwagon. He does the same **** every year.

I'm not sure he's a hack. He probably has some sources... he just doesn't go out there searching for news so he just confirms with them when he hears something big.

I was listening to him today talk about the Mirotic rumors. He is really amazed that Mirotic was able to get a NTC with absolutely no clue that it is a stipulation of the contract he signed and that it would apply to anyone who signed a one year deal.

Therefore, he thinks Utah has leverage because Mirotic wants to come to Utah and has a NTC, kinda like the Melo situation. He said that, and then went on to say he thinks he might give Favors and a top 15 protected FRP for Mirotic, or Favors and 2 seconds.

Hack is probably a fair assessment.

Yeah he didn’t sound too knowledgeable today with PK.


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[stitches]

Checketts is a hack. This is Woj's rumor, and he's just jumping on the bandwagon. He does the same **** every year.

I'm not sure he's a hack. He probably has some sources... he just doesn't go out there searching for news so he just confirms with them when he hears something big.

I was listening to him today talk about the Mirotic rumors. He is really amazed that Mirotic was able to get a NTC with absolutely no clue that it is a stipulation of the contract he signed and that it would apply to anyone who signed a one year deal.

Therefore, he thinks Utah has leverage because Mirotic wants to come to Utah and has a NTC, kinda like the Melo situation. He said that, and then went on to say he thinks he might give Favors and a top 15 protected FRP for Mirotic, or Favors and 2 seconds.

Hack is probably a fair assessment.

Yeah, I noticed the exact same thing in his interview. Maybe I've mis-evaluated him.

[Stern Fixer]

I'll pass on both Ilyasova and Belinelli.

Huge pass. Why are we talking about guys who don’t fit our timeline and are tread options.


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No question that Mirotic is the most complete player available in our price range right now. I floated the first trade proposal regarding him in the trades thread about three weeks ago. The problem is that we seem to have a lot of tire kickers around here that would rather haggle all day than actually commit to a deal. This is a cheaper alternative that still has some offensive firepower which we require in a deal (originally proposed by another poster), but alas still no consensus. I'm starting to think that Utah fans are spoiled by the recent fleecings of Denver and less recently Brooklyn and demand to eat gourmet steak on a hamburger budget or nothing at all.

[Crunch 99]

https://youtu.be/i8R-KHDqccY

Admit this is only Bulls game i have watched this year but i don't see this player on our roster.

I suppose this game was Mirotic at his very best, but I loved the fact that he was able to get those three point attempts up and drain them with defenders pretty close up on him. While it is unlikely Mirotic will keep his current three point percentage going for the season, he looks like he would be a more productive three point shooter than Ingles, who often hesitates and passes up threes with defenders further away.

[Inigo Montoya]

There's no point in Illyasova. He's not as good as Jerebko or Thabo. Even if you think he is it can't be by that much.

IMO, the only point in getting Mirotic is that you think he is a significant upgrade AND a long term piece. I don't think people who want him see him as a rental. They see him as a player who wants to be here and can excel.

Adding onto that, you only deal him for pieces that you do not consider part of the future of this team. I've been wanting Mirotic for some time, but the Jazz should not consider giving up their first round pick for him. If that's the cost, you wait.

There is no point to Ersan just as there is no point to Mirotic. I'd rather we won't take on any rental player that helps us win meaningless games this season. But if we're so desperate for a stretch 4 to help out this season and aren't willing to play Jerebko more for some reason (or Thabo, or JJ, or even O'Neale), I'd rather take on Ersan's expiring deal for a 2nd round pick than Mirotic's 1.5-year rental deal for a 1st. And Mirotic is on fire right now. His actual career performance is pretty much on par with what Ersan is contributing, even this season. In fact, looking at their stats of current and past seasons and their style of play, I'd say that Ersan is a much better comp than the previous comp of Olynyk I brought up.

[Daddy 801]

I'll pass on both Ilyasova and Belinelli.

Huge pass. Why are we talking about guys who don’t fit our timeline and are tread options.


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No question that Mirotic is the most complete player available in our price range right now. I floated the first trade proposal regarding him in the trades thread about three weeks ago. The problem is that we seem to have a lot of tire kickers around here that would rather haggle all day than actually commit to a deal. This is a cheaper alternative that still has some offensive firepower which we require in a deal (originally proposed by another poster), but alas still no consensus. I'm starting to think that Utah fans are spoiled by the recent fleecings of Denver and less recently Brooklyn and demand to eat gourmet steak on a hamburger budget or nothing at all.

I want nothing to do with a player who is here only this season. What reason do we have to go win an extra game?

[KqWIN]

There's no point in Illyasova. He's not as good as Jerebko or Thabo. Even if you think he is it can't be by that much.

IMO, the only point in getting Mirotic is that you think he is a significant upgrade AND a long term piece. I don't think people who want him see him as a rental. They see him as a player who wants to be here and can excel.

Adding onto that, you only deal him for pieces that you do not consider part of the future of this team. I've been wanting Mirotic for some time, but the Jazz should not consider giving up their first round pick for him. If that's the cost, you wait.

There is no point to Ersan just as there is no point to Mirotic. I'd rather we won't take on any rental player that helps us win meaningless games this season. But if we're so desperate for a stretch 4 to help out this season and aren't willing to play Jerebko more for some reason (or Thabo, or JJ, or even O'Neale), I'd rather take on Ersan's expiring deal for a 2nd round pick than Mirotic's 1.5-year rental deal for a 1st. And Mirotic is on fire right now. His actual career performance is pretty much on par with what Ersan is contributing, even this season. In fact, looking at their stats of current and past seasons and their style of play, I'd say that Ersan is a much better comp than the previous comp of Olynyk I brought up.

There is a point to Mirotic. He could be an significant upgrade and a long term piece. Not everybody sees him as rental.

Ersan doesn’t have the potential for either.

[sipclip]

I'll pass on both Ilyasova and Belinelli.

Huge pass. Why are we talking about guys who don’t fit our timeline and are tread options.


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No question that Mirotic is the most complete player available in our price range right now. I floated the first trade proposal regarding him in the trades thread about three weeks ago. The problem is that we seem to have a lot of tire kickers around here that would rather haggle all day than actually commit to a deal. This is a cheaper alternative that still has some offensive firepower which we require in a deal (originally proposed by another poster), but alas still no consensus. I'm starting to think that Utah fans are spoiled by the recent fleecings of Denver and less recently Brooklyn and demand to eat gourmet steak on a hamburger budget or nothing at all.

You are completely missing the point. That trade would be strictly for this season and that doesn't matter at this point. Also to say we have fleeced Denver again is a massive overstatement. As of this year Lyles level of play is quite a bit higher than Mitchell and at only 22yrs old he still could have quite a bit of room for improvement.

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[Pass_the_rock]

There's no point in Illyasova. He's not as good as Jerebko or Thabo. Even if you think he is it can't be by that much.

IMO, the only point in getting Mirotic is that you think he is a significant upgrade AND a long term piece. I don't think people who want him see him as a rental. They see him as a player who wants to be here and can excel.

Adding onto that, you only deal him for pieces that you do not consider part of the future of this team. I've been wanting Mirotic for some time, but the Jazz should not consider giving up their first round pick for him. If that's the cost, you wait.

There is no point to Ersan just as there is no point to Mirotic. I'd rather we won't take on any rental player that helps us win meaningless games this season. But if we're so desperate for a stretch 4 to help out this season and aren't willing to play Jerebko more for some reason (or Thabo, or JJ, or even O'Neale), I'd rather take on Ersan's expiring deal for a 2nd round pick than Mirotic's 1.5-year rental deal for a 1st. And Mirotic is on fire right now. His actual career performance is pretty much on par with what Ersan is contributing, even this season. In fact, looking at their stats of current and past seasons and their style of play, I'd say that Ersan is a much better comp than the previous comp of Olynyk I brought up.

Mirotic still has some potential as a volume scorer. He was a top scorer for a top team in Europe, and in his early NBA career he was on a team with more accomplished scorers (Rose, Butler, Gasol). He's still 26 so there's some intrigue about him. Ilyasova has none. He's at least 30 y.o. career role player with zero potential, he's worse than Jerebko and has expiring contract. I'd say spending a SRP on him is bigger waste than spending FRP on Mirotic.

And why do you keep calling Mirotic just a rental?

[Inigo Montoya]

There is a point to Mirotic. He could be an significant upgrade and a long term piece. Not everybody sees him as rental.

Ersan doesn’t have the potential for

It doesn't matter if some see him as a long term piece--we will get to that point when offering him a contract in 2019 whether we trade for him or not. Until then, he's a 1 year rental wherever he goes, regardless of anyone's intentions. We should learn from our mistakes. Those who see Mirotic as a long term piece bank on having Mirotic for 1.5 seasons, and hope that this span of time will convince him to sign with the Jazz once he becomes an unrestricted free agent. But we've been through this ordeal before. The Jazz saw Hayward as a long term piece, and he was here for 7 seasons, but at the first time he had control of his destination, he went elsewhere. The Jazz saw Hill as a long term piece, gave up a lottery pick for him, and once he became a UFA, he went to the highest bidder.

Mirotic is not a guy who made a huge amount of money in his career. He is one of those players who'll likely go in free agency to the highest bidder and sign the best contract he can when he's entering his prime, since it will likely be the biggest contract of his career. So that season with the Jazz doesn't really matters as much as what contract they are prepared to offer and what contract the rest of the teams in the league are prepared to offer him.

As for Ersan, he is putting up the same numbers this season as Mirotic had his entire career up until this latest outburst. Sure, Mirotic is probably better and is younger, but they are pretty comparable players.