Game 42: Utah Jazz (17-24) @ Charlotte Hornets (15-24)

[LesGrossman]

It is a fact that we've played better with Mitchell at PG, particularly on offense. Our net rating with Mitchell playing the point is +0.1 and our offensive rating is 109.7. Our net rating with Rubio playing PG is -5.5 and our offensive rating is 101.4.

The statement that we have been playing better with Mitchell at PG is indeed a fact. There is no opinion to it.

Whether or not Rubio should finish games is a different discussion. I'm not trying to make a point as to whether or not he should play.

Sigh. I'm about to give up this discussion since it obviously leads nowhere.

Sure, from a statistical point of view, Mitchell has produced offensively better numbers. What can you take away from that? That he is the better option? No. That he should be the point guard of this team? No. They havent played against the same opponent, the situations are not comparable, so that is a typical number that - if naively interpreted in a too simplicistic way - does more bad than good.

Whatever, man. I dont feel like thers much common ground. I'll just stop commenting on your posts i guess, since everyone else is probably bored/annoyed by this discussion already.

[Crunch 99]

I would like to see both Rubio and DM play at end of the games. Imo, Rubio has a tremendous will to win and brings high energy and intensity on both ends of the court every minute that he is in the game.

Edit: I just looked up "clutch stats" at NBA.com, and in the last five minutes of games, with neither team ahead by more than five points, Rubio is leading the entire Jazz team with 3 ppg on 62.5% shooting and 100% on threes. Changing the filter to last 3, 2 or 1 minute of the game, Rubio still does well. Rubio also leads the Jazz on the advanced PIE stat for the last five minutes of games. These are small number of games, but the data says Rubio has been playing well in clutch time; he hasn't been taking shots and bricking them at the end of games. This data matches up to what I thought I was seeing with the eye test.

https://stats.nba.com/players/clutch-traditional/?sort=PTS&dir=-1&Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612762

Rodney Hood was the worst player on the Jazz the last 5, 3, 2 and 1 minutes of games on every filter I looked at: FG%, Net Rating and PIE. Rodney Hood has yet to knock down a three pointer during the last five minutes in a clutch game this season.

[Inigo Montoya]

I don't see this as a Mitchell thing as much as I see it as a Snyder thing. Sure, Mitchell is a rookie who could benefit from learning from his mistakes, but that's not really what's going on here imho. I have no problem with Mitchell taking as many shots as he wants. All I want is to see the team work to get quality shots, especially at the end of games. As far as I'm concerned, Mitchell may take all of them and miss them all.

The thing is, that I don't see the team doing that. Hell, they don't even set up a proper ISO play for Mitchell, we just let the guy run three quarters of the court and launch an off-ballance 3 with a hand in his face at a time when we need a good shot. And if Mitchell is a rookie and gets a pass, then what about Hood? He did the same thing at the end of the Hornets game too. It is up to the coach to let the players know what he'd like them to do on the court. I can't understand how Snyder could just let his team do the same thing over and over repeatedly (cross half-court running and launch a bad 3) and not do anything. Unless he told them to do that, which doesn't seem plausible.

As for Mitchell's learning: at the end of the Heat game, he had to run almost 3 quarters of the court and shoot in motion with a hand in his face. What did he and Hood do at the end of the Hornets game? The exact same thing, only further away from the basket. It's on the players for making such bad plays and taking such bad shots repeatedly, without using the rest of the team to help them get a better shot, but it is also on the coach for allowing this to happen repeatedly instead of trying to help his players get a better shot by calling some plays for them to execute (unless he did and he was just repeatedly ignored, which isn't a good thing also).

[KqWIN]

If you watch the bad stretch again, Mitchell's turnovers came because he got trapped in PnR and all three of his shots were good looks. I don't think he was put in a position to fail, he just needed to make the play. Quin called TO twice during this stretch, so you can't say he did nothing. One ATO was a nice play that gave Hood a wide open shot. He missed.

Maybe he had the wrong guys on the floor, but I don't see how you can say he put them in a bad position.

[Inigo Montoya]

I don't call these quality shots or good playcalling:
(first Hood shot)
http://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0021700618&GameEventID=618&Season=2017-18&title=MISS%20Hood%20%203PT%20Jump%20Shot&sct=plot

http://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0021700618&GameEventID=651&Season=2017-18&title=MISS%20Hood%2027'%203PT%20Jump%20Shot&sct=plot

http://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0021700618&GameEventID=655&Season=2017-18&title=MISS%20Mitchell%2028'%203PT%20Jump%20Shot&sct=plot

[LesGrossman]

I don't call these quality shots or good playcalling:
(first Hood shot)
http://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0021700618&GameEventID=618&Season=2017-18&title=MISS%20Hood%20%203PT%20Jump%20Shot&sct=plot

http://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0021700618&GameEventID=651&Season=2017-18&title=MISS%20Hood%2027'%203PT%20Jump%20Shot&sct=plot

http://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0021700618&GameEventID=655&Season=2017-18&title=MISS%20Mitchell%2028'%203PT%20Jump%20Shot&sct=plot

Couldnt agree more. Snyder seems to freeze at critical times, comepletely handing the keys to iso players, be it Mitchell, Hood, Burks or Johnson. While i dont blame Mitchell for missing, i am slightly disappointed that after half a year of very intense usage (probably more than most other rookies), he still chucks away at times. Hes not particularily bad at decision making, just not exceptionally good. And Snyder imho is slowing down his development by the "do what you want" approach. Sure we arent in the locker room after the game, we dont see the video analysis, we dont see what pointers he gives him, but watching those shots and turnovers, either he doesnt get many pointers or he cant really apply them.

[KqWIN]

I don't call these quality shots or good playcalling:
(first Hood shot)
http://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0021700618&GameEventID=618&Season=2017-18&title=MISS%20Hood%20%203PT%20Jump%20Shot&sct=plot

http://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0021700618&GameEventID=651&Season=2017-18&title=MISS%20Hood%2027'%203PT%20Jump%20Shot&sct=plot

http://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0021700618&GameEventID=655&Season=2017-18&title=MISS%20Mitchell%2028'%203PT%20Jump%20Shot&sct=plot

I was more speaking to the stretch where the game was lost and Mitchell choked away the game. He had decent looks, looks that he made the entire game before.

There's also something to not being a micromanager. A lot of coaches are hands off, not everybody is a Sloan who wants to call every single play.

[stitches]

I don't call these quality shots or good playcalling:
(first Hood shot)
http://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0021700618&GameEventID=618&Season=2017-18&title=MISS%20Hood%20%203PT%20Jump%20Shot&sct=plot

http://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0021700618&GameEventID=651&Season=2017-18&title=MISS%20Hood%2027'%203PT%20Jump%20Shot&sct=plot

http://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0021700618&GameEventID=655&Season=2017-18&title=MISS%20Mitchell%2028'%203PT%20Jump%20Shot&sct=plot

I was more speaking to the stretch where the game was lost and Mitchell choked away the game.

Yeah, those look more like the desperation shots once we were way out of reach and trying to get the game close.

[vryadli]

I never heard about somebody become great when that type of leaning is predominant. At least not for last thousand years, after more efficient ways of learning were introduced.

You've never heard of anyone that learned from failure?

That's great, but looks like it's mostly about having a failures and overcoming them. I missed the learning mostly on mistakes part. Can you please highlight that part for me? May be there was something about sacrificing team results for his learning on mistakes? I'd be delighted to read that parts.

[KqWIN]

That's great, but looks like it's mostly about having a failures and overcoming them. I missed the learning mostly on mistakes part. Can you please highlight that part for me? May be there was something about sacrificing team results for his learning on mistakes? I'd be delighted to read that parts.

Are we really doing this right now? If you want to change what I said, go ahead. It's a pretty normal thing around here to change what other people say so I'm not even bothered anymore.

[SoCalJazzFan]

If you watch the bad stretch again, Mitchell's turnovers came because he got trapped in PnR and all three of his shots were good looks. I don't think he was put in a position to fail, he just needed to make the play. Quin called TO twice during this stretch, so you can't say he did nothing. One ATO was a nice play that gave Hood a wide open shot. He missed.

Maybe he had the wrong guys on the floor, but I don't see how you can say he put them in a bad position.

Not to pile on, but Mitchell, although I think he the future PG or at least co-combo guard of the Jazz, isn’t adept at running the pnr yet, which is at least in part why teams double him every time he tries to run it. The learning part of that occurs in practice, not a critical time of the game.

I like Quinn, and I think that the Jazz are tied to him as long as he wants to be here, but his end of game management, use of players and lack of system flexibility can be frustrating.

[KqWIN]

If you watch the bad stretch again, Mitchell's turnovers came because he got trapped in PnR and all three of his shots were good looks. I don't think he was put in a position to fail, he just needed to make the play. Quin called TO twice during this stretch, so you can't say he did nothing. One ATO was a nice play that gave Hood a wide open shot. He missed.

Maybe he had the wrong guys on the floor, but I don't see how you can say he put them in a bad position.

Not to pile on, but Mitchell, although I think he the future PG or at least co-combo guard of the Jazz, isn’t adept at running the pnr yet, which is at least in part why teams double him every time he tries to run it. The learning part of that occurs in practice, not a critical time of the game.

I like Quinn, and I think that the Jazz are tied to him as long as he wants to be here, but his end of game management, use of players and lack of system flexibility can be frustrating.

He does need to get better, but I think the in game experience is valuable. Especially when it's in late game situations. You can't simulate those kind of moments and pressure in practice.

Also, he was having a killer night. I would feel differently if he was struggling, but he was going into the final 5 minutes with a super efficient 34 points. He's also the best player on the team. I will raise my hand and say that in that moment, I would have leaned on Donovan to carry us home.

I think the trap surprised him because that's not typically how they play and they hadn't done it all night. A more experienced player probably wouldn't have made that mistake, but the only way to be experienced is to have experience. Hopefully he can use this and learn from it. He's made a ton of mistakes this year, but at the same time his development is as rapid as I've seen before.

[vryadli]

That's great, but looks like it's mostly about having a failures and overcoming them. I missed the learning mostly on mistakes part. Can you please highlight that part for me? May be there was something about sacrificing team results for his learning on mistakes? I'd be delighted to read that parts.

Are we really doing this right now? If you want to change what I said, go ahead. It's a pretty normal thing around here to change what other people say so I'm not even bothered anymore.

You confused me completely. May be I made mistake somewhere, but completely unable to learn anything from that. But wait... you are MJ!... right?!