Around the NBA, Season 2018-2019

[sipclip]

Frank is like Exum with less injury problems, but also without speed and athleticism. Doesn't strike me as a high potential guy. The guard version of Dragan Bender.

Frank has plenty of speed and athleticism. He isn't a freak athlete by any means but he has the potential to develop into a solid guard in my opinion. Definitely worth a look if we could get him for a 2nd rd pick or maybe even nothing just so the Knicks can get more capspace.

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[KqWIN]

Frank has more potential than Tony Bradley, I'll give you that. He's fine as your 14th or 15th guy, but who isn't?

[Denizfeital]

What about Lillard probably extension:

"the new deal would kick in by 2021, giving Lillard $42.6 million in 2021-22, $46 million in 2022-23, $49.4 million in 2023-24, and $52.8 million in 2024-25; by that point, Lillard will be 34 years old"

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/5/21/18634471/damian-lillard-portland-trail-blazers-supermax-extension-reports

Would you be scared at least a little bit if you were a Portland fan? I would.

Thoughts?

Regards,

[stitches]

What about Lillard probably extension:

"the new deal would kick in by 2021, giving Lillard $42.6 million in 2021-22, $46 million in 2022-23, $49.4 million in 2023-24, and $52.8 million in 2024-25; by that point, Lillard will be 34 years old"

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/5/21/18634471/damian-lillard-portland-trail-blazers-supermax-extension-reports

Would you be scared at least a little bit if you were a Portland fan? I would.

Thoughts?

Regards,

You might be, but the alternative is a non-starter so... you have to do it.

[Rauxcee]

What about Lillard probably extension:

"the new deal would kick in by 2021, giving Lillard $42.6 million in 2021-22, $46 million in 2022-23, $49.4 million in 2023-24, and $52.8 million in 2024-25; by that point, Lillard will be 34 years old"

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/5/21/18634471/damian-lillard-portland-trail-blazers-supermax-extension-reports

Would you be scared at least a little bit if you were a Portland fan? I would.

Thoughts?

Regards,

The Jazz are going to be facing the very real possibility of this same situation with Gobert in 2 years. I hate the supermax, it's a killer, but what choice do you have? Start over?

[KqWIN]

What about Lillard probably extension:

"the new deal would kick in by 2021, giving Lillard $42.6 million in 2021-22, $46 million in 2022-23, $49.4 million in 2023-24, and $52.8 million in 2024-25; by that point, Lillard will be 34 years old"

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/5/21/18634471/damian-lillard-portland-trail-blazers-supermax-extension-reports

Would you be scared at least a little bit if you were a Portland fan? I would.

Thoughts?

Regards,

The Jazz are going to be facing the very real possibility of this same situation with Gobert in 2 years. I hate the supermax, it's a killer, but what choice do you have? Start over?

Supermax has had the opposite effect as intended, as do a lot of other CBA rules. Or, should I say opposite "advertised" effect. THe league knows what it's doing.

[sipclip]

The supermax is going to be viewed as franchise killers in a few years. I wouldn't expect it to stay around for the next CBA because teams won't want it and the vast majority of players won't want it because it means they are being paid less.

[KqWIN]

The supermax is a disaster. The NBA's attempts at helping small market teams = spend more money. It's incredibly stupid because rules that require more money spent will disproportionately affect the teams who have less of it.

I think they should amend the CBA right now. At the very least, that extra 5% should not count against the cap sheet. It would still require teams to pay more, but at least it wouldn't kill their cap sheet.

[dr0welf]

I'm not thinking Frank for the starting position. I'm looking at him as one of the players that could be cheap to get with high potential. Low risk medium reward type player. Exum and Frank would be good to compete for the back up spot. Where he is only 20 I think he has the potential to grow into a decent player with a solid coaching staff.

What about Frank makes you think high potential? He has a mountain to climb just to be an NBA level player. I'm talking 9/10th player level.

I think he's very young, has a decent reach for a PG (7'0 at draft night). Lacks a little in quickness and shiftiness, but makes up for it in court vision and basketball IQ. He's got a very good PnR pocket pass which might not work with Gobert, but he might be good with lob as well. He seems to be able to find the open guy similar to Rubio. Everything I've heard is he is a very likable guy and would definitely have Jazz DNA.

I think he would have a lot of growth ahead of him and worth the risk. I might have over sold with "high potential", but I think he could easily become a rotational player similar to O'neal.

[KqWIN]

There is a non zero chance that we come out of these playoffs saying that Kawhi Leonard is the best player in the world.

^^^^

[Luigi]

It's all gonna crack when the Warriors bring everybody back and they break from orbit in taxes.

Durant was on track to complete his case for best player on a three ring stretch before he went down, with FMVPs to prove it. If he got the third and then goes to the Knicks or the Clippers, he could point back to his rings as the big fish. It was plausible to say they don't beat James, Harden, others without Durant.

But now, post Durant injury, Curry is shining again, and the favorite player in the bay is walloping Durant's legacy as the Warriors go back to winning without him. This leaves Durant with nowhere to go. Pre-injury, I was betting on Durant leaving. Now, I'm betting on Durant staying, along with everyone else. Which means (!), we're going to see the Warriors field a roster with double the cost of any other team in the league. So far, we've seen a handful of teams willing to go into tax orbit above the cap. But this, this is going to break everything, at least until the next CBA.

What we really needed was Houston to beat the Warriors, and then the Bucks to beat Houston in convincing style. That way, all the baddies lose. Warriors gets a blemish on their record. Houston gets embarased by the young up and comers in the finals. And Bucks settle into dominating the East instead of 76ers and Celtics, and Toronto loses on their Leonard gamble. Instead... none of that. We're getting Warriors holding momentum, and player movement looking low this summer (Leonard, Durant stay). At least, that's my new prediction.

[Crunch 99]

But now, post Durant injury, Curry is shining again, and the favorite player in the bay is walloping Durant's legacy as the Warriors go back to winning without him. This leaves Durant with nowhere to go. Pre-injury, I was betting on Durant leaving. Now, I'm betting on Durant staying, along with everyone else.

I am hoping Durant doesn't play the rest of the way and the Warriors sweep Toronto. I think that is the best possible scenario to encourage Durant to leave. Durant's legacy was already questioned by some for having bandwagoned on to a championship team; if the Warriors win a second championship without him, his legacy will continue to be questioned both backwards and forward. He would be considered a greater champion if he were to leave and lead another team to a championship.

But Durant will probably be back for the Finals to get some of the credit for another Warriors' championship. Worse case scenario for encouraging Durant to stay imo is if Durant comes back and wins the Finals MVP. Hopefully Curry will stay aggressive and win the Finals MVP.

[Crunch 99]

I really enjoy watching this Durantless version of the Warriors play basketball more than I enjoy watching the Durant version of Warriors play basketball. There is better ball and player movement imo. Curry and Green both take on bigger roles that are fun to watch. Draymond Green in particular looks like he is really enjoying this opportunity to play without Durant.

[Luigi]

Yes, I agree about the watch factor.

Maybe you're right about Durant staying if he gets more success there. I was thinking that another FMVP would give him the license to leave. But I can see it the other way, too. I just think he knows his legacy is hurt already, pre injury, and he's looking for a way to repair it. The best repair I could see what 3 FMVPS then out. But 2, and a Durantless Warriors title puts him in a tough spot. He could settle for being a big part of that team going forward.

But I'm really rooting for a Warriors breakup, whatever makes that most likely.

[SoCalJazzFan]

The supermax is going to be viewed as franchise killers in a few years. I wouldn't expect it to stay around for the next CBA because teams won't want it and the vast majority of players won't want it because it means they are being paid less.

Might already be, case in point John Wall. Lillard next. It is probably not realistic, but the NBA would be better off (from an owner and fans perspective) with an NFL style player contract situation without fully guaranteed contracts.

[SoCalJazzFan]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mortenjensen/2019/05/23/nba-supermax-contracts-vs-repeater-tax-penalties-somethings-gotta-give/#77f16ee5239e

[stitches]

Since time immemorial the way to create a championship contender is to get players on undervalued contracts that massively outplay those contracts. The two best ways are
1. get superstars/MVP contender types on your team because they usually outplay their value because of the limit on the max salaries
2. draft players that can provide all-star/borderline all star production on their rookie contract, again - because those contracts are capped.

In reality you HAVE to have a superstar, otherwise it become very hard to beat multiple teams with that type of player on their own teams as you go deeper in the playoffs. In free agency you usually will get players that are either at about fair value or UNDER-PERFORM those contracts, especially for teams like the Jazz that have to overpay players for them to come.

Right now we have a player on rookie contract that's massively out-performing his contract. We need him to take the next step and become a top 10 player/MVP contender or thereabout if we want to have any chance whatsoever. For as good as Rudy is I don't think he will be good value for the supermax. Very few player are worth a supermax type of contract in the NBA...

I guess... what I meant to say is... Inigo and others(I think reapaman) have posed the possibility of trading Gobert if we think he will want a supermax. And I'm not very far from agreeing with this, especially if we don't manage to add high impact player in FA. Players like Gobert and the top tier of FAs we are talking about in most of our threads only make difference about our championship odds if we already have the MVP-type guy. Unfortunately, 50 wins seasons are way too valuable for DL and co. and I doubt they see it this way.

[Inigo Montoya]

Let's say that when it comes time to sign both DM and Gobert, DM gets a max contract, and Gobert is willing to sign a regular max and not a supermax. It changes nothing if the Jazz have no other top-tier talent next to them, because we won't be able to get that talent through free agency--we'd be capped out anyway. And we won't be able to trade for one if we have no meaningful talent next to them.

Let's go a step further. Let's say DM gets the max, Gobert gives the Jazz a HUGE discount and signs the max and not a supermax, and the Jazz then strike gold in the draft. This is about the most positive outcome we can hope for, I think. Well, by the time that rookie really comes into his own, Gobert will be on the other side of 30 and on the decline. The timeline doesn't fit all that well. And this is without taking into account other teams getting weaker and stronger, and other super-teams forming. The more I look at it, the more it feels like unless the Jazz make something big happen before both Gobert and DM are due their next contracts, the timeline of this roster isn't aligned for it to be any more than it is now even in the best case scenario.

[Luigi]

Let's say that when it comes time to sign both DM and Gobert, DM gets a max contract, and Gobert is willing to sign a regular max and not a supermax. It changes nothing if the Jazz have no other top-tier talent next to them, because we won't be able to get that talent through free agency--we'd be capped out anyway. And we won't be able to trade for one if we have no meaningful talent next to them.

Let's go a step further. Let's say DM gets the max, Gobert gives the Jazz a HUGE discount and signs the max and not a supermax, and the Jazz then strike gold in the draft. This is about the most positive outcome we can hope for, I think. Well, by the time that rookie really comes into his own, Gobert will be on the other side of 30 and on the decline. The timeline doesn't fit all that well. And this is without taking into account other teams getting weaker and stronger, and other super-teams forming. The more I look at it, the more it feels like unless the Jazz make something big happen before both Gobert and DM are due their next contracts, the timeline of this roster isn't aligned for it to be any more than it is now even in the best case scenario.

This is why it was so hard to watch teams gamble with Paul George, Kawhi Leonard, and Jimmy Butler when we had assets. And to hear that Beal, Conley, Holiday might be available. We gotta do something while the window is open.

It's probably Mirotic. I think he probably makes us a worse team than Favors though.

[KqWIN]

The Raptors did it!!! What a great job by Masai to put this team together. I can't **** believe they've got Kawhi.