Future Free Agent Thread

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Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#1961 » by babyjax13 » Wed Jul 8, 2020 7:39 am

Inigo Montoya wrote:
sipclip wrote:This is an absolute non starter with the 1st rd pick thrown in. We need to stop with the stupid trading 1sts for future free agents. It has set this franchise back forever.

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I tend to agree. If we have to trade 1sts, at least do it for a real game-changer. Porter will not change the fortunes of this team.


I think I disagree on both counts.
(1) trading 1sts: I agree that trading picks for expiring players has damaged us - in particular, sending out two firsts for Conley, which was clearly a mistake [I thought two firsts was too much, but I didn't think it was horrific, by any means]. That being said, the team has generally been worse with Conley, other than a few small stretches.

(2) Porter is exactly the kind of player that fits with our system, and he's also proven willing to take a secondary/tertiary role, while being EXTREMELY efficient at it (career 48/40/78 shooter). He was the player I wanted when we were targeting Conley, because he seemed like someone who clearly had the potential to break out if given the opportunity to scale up his scoring. After being traded to Chicago, he did show that his efficiency scales with higher volume. To me, that means when we have a situation where someone is hurt, Porter can scale up. But not only that, he is someone who can be a third/fourth option for the foreseeable future. This - of course - assumes that we retained him. I don't think that would be a huge worry. We'd have his bird rights, and I think he would really enjoy playing for us.

Beyond this:
(3) Even if we did lose him, I think a year of seeing the team with Mitchell at point guard is worth moving down in this draft in particular. One, because it's actually fairly deep...but two, because our ability to work out players is likely going to be significantly reduced...I think this will be a higher variance draft than normal. Generally, we've made fairly solid decisions in who we pick (with Grayson Allen being IMO the lone exception).

(4) He's also a very good defender, which is something we desperately need. Only four players on our roster posted positive defensive RAPTOR ratings, Rudy, Royce, Joe, and Bradley. Rudy - as we've seen - carries the team on that end. We need to get him some help (especially another guy that can rebound) and Porter would be perfect for that role.

IDK I have always loved Porter (since his days in Georgetown). He's a very cerebral player who never forces the issue, and is just extremely reliable. He's kind of like what Marvin Williams was for us, but on steroids, and to me - a chance at retaining that player long term is much more valuable than the 24th pick in a draft filled with uncertainty.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#1962 » by Catchall » Wed Jul 8, 2020 7:17 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
Inigo Montoya wrote:
sipclip wrote:This is an absolute non starter with the 1st rd pick thrown in. We need to stop with the stupid trading 1sts for future free agents. It has set this franchise back forever.

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

I tend to agree. If we have to trade 1sts, at least do it for a real game-changer. Porter will not change the fortunes of this team.


I think I disagree on both counts.
(1) trading 1sts: I agree that trading picks for expiring players has damaged us - in particular, sending out two firsts for Conley, which was clearly a mistake [I thought two firsts was too much, but I didn't think it was horrific, by any means]. That being said, the team has generally been worse with Conley, other than a few small stretches.

(2) Porter is exactly the kind of player that fits with our system, and he's also proven willing to take a secondary/tertiary role, while being EXTREMELY efficient at it (career 48/40/78 shooter). He was the player I wanted when we were targeting Conley, because he seemed like someone who clearly had the potential to break out if given the opportunity to scale up his scoring. After being traded to Chicago, he did show that his efficiency scales with higher volume. To me, that means when we have a situation where someone is hurt, Porter can scale up. But not only that, he is someone who can be a third/fourth option for the foreseeable future. This - of course - assumes that we retained him. I don't think that would be a huge worry. We'd have his bird rights, and I think he would really enjoy playing for us.

Beyond this:
(3) Even if we did lose him, I think a year of seeing the team with Mitchell at point guard is worth moving down in this draft in particular. One, because it's actually fairly deep...but two, because our ability to work out players is likely going to be significantly reduced...I think this will be a higher variance draft than normal. Generally, we've made fairly solid decisions in who we pick (with Grayson Allen being IMO the lone exception).

(4) He's also a very good defender, which is something we desperately need. Only four players on our roster posted positive defensive RAPTOR ratings, Rudy, Royce, Joe, and Bradley. Rudy - as we've seen - carries the team on that end. We need to get him some help (especially another guy that can rebound) and Porter would be perfect for that role.

IDK I have always loved Porter (since his days in Georgetown). He's a very cerebral player who never forces the issue, and is just extremely reliable. He's kind of like what Marvin Williams was for us, but on steroids, and to me - a chance at retaining that player long term is much more valuable than the 24th pick in a draft filled with uncertainty.


Porter's injury history and mixed performance makes him a less valuable asset than Conley, imo. The Jazz wouldn't need to include a FRP to make a deal like this. I think Chicago would need to include another small asset. Most teams won't rely on OP to produce much and will treat him mainly as an expiring contract. Conley can still play.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#1963 » by babyjax13 » Wed Jul 8, 2020 7:49 pm

Catchall wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
Inigo Montoya wrote:I tend to agree. If we have to trade 1sts, at least do it for a real game-changer. Porter will not change the fortunes of this team.


I think I disagree on both counts.
(1) trading 1sts: I agree that trading picks for expiring players has damaged us - in particular, sending out two firsts for Conley, which was clearly a mistake [I thought two firsts was too much, but I didn't think it was horrific, by any means]. That being said, the team has generally been worse with Conley, other than a few small stretches.

(2) Porter is exactly the kind of player that fits with our system, and he's also proven willing to take a secondary/tertiary role, while being EXTREMELY efficient at it (career 48/40/78 shooter). He was the player I wanted when we were targeting Conley, because he seemed like someone who clearly had the potential to break out if given the opportunity to scale up his scoring. After being traded to Chicago, he did show that his efficiency scales with higher volume. To me, that means when we have a situation where someone is hurt, Porter can scale up. But not only that, he is someone who can be a third/fourth option for the foreseeable future. This - of course - assumes that we retained him. I don't think that would be a huge worry. We'd have his bird rights, and I think he would really enjoy playing for us.

Beyond this:
(3) Even if we did lose him, I think a year of seeing the team with Mitchell at point guard is worth moving down in this draft in particular. One, because it's actually fairly deep...but two, because our ability to work out players is likely going to be significantly reduced...I think this will be a higher variance draft than normal. Generally, we've made fairly solid decisions in who we pick (with Grayson Allen being IMO the lone exception).

(4) He's also a very good defender, which is something we desperately need. Only four players on our roster posted positive defensive RAPTOR ratings, Rudy, Royce, Joe, and Bradley. Rudy - as we've seen - carries the team on that end. We need to get him some help (especially another guy that can rebound) and Porter would be perfect for that role.

IDK I have always loved Porter (since his days in Georgetown). He's a very cerebral player who never forces the issue, and is just extremely reliable. He's kind of like what Marvin Williams was for us, but on steroids, and to me - a chance at retaining that player long term is much more valuable than the 24th pick in a draft filled with uncertainty.


Porter's injury history and mixed performance makes him a less valuable asset than Conley, imo. The Jazz wouldn't need to include a FRP to make a deal like this. I think Chicago would need to include another small asset. Most teams won't rely on OP to produce much and will treat him mainly as an expiring contract. Conley can still play.


Conley is paid more and has just as big (if not bigger) injury issues. Porter is still young, I have confidence he can get healthy and have a long, productive career. I think he's also better than Conley, at this point.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#1964 » by SoCalJazzFan » Wed Jul 8, 2020 8:11 pm

babyjax13 wrote:Utah trades: Mike Conley, 2020 UTA 1st (24)
Chicago trades: Otto Porter Jr., 2021 CHI 2nd

Follow up/or part of the same:
Utah trades: 2021 CHI 2nd
Philadelphia trades: 2020 NYK 2nd (36)

Move down a bit in a draft that may have more variance than normal, drop some salary, get a player who is more impactful when healthy and would give us some more rebounding/defense in addition to elite shooting.

I wouldn't be opposed to this. It is a meh draft with a lot of complications anyway, and your proposal wouldn't have us give up a pick entirely, just slide down 8 spots. However, tacking on the FRP might not be necessary as the Bulls might want to trade Otto anyways, and need a PG. Conley hasn't been great on the Jazz, it has been an unexpected odd fit. If the $6M savings in contract were the difference of being able to resign Clarkson, it would then become a no-brainer for me.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#1965 » by Inigo Montoya » Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:35 am

This thread is about to hit 100 pages so I'm going to lock it down and start a new one.
Draft Nate Wolters - FAILED
Keep Nate Wolters - FAILED
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KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.

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