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Re: Future Free Agent Thread

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:18 am
by CAE15
Tom349 wrote:With Royce $$$ guaranteed for next season and beyond I've looked into what space we could possibly have next season. Now Im not sure whats legal and whats not with all the different rules regarding NBA salary caps but heres what I've come up with.

First if we waive Mudiay (don't have his rights) and Clarksons rights we are at 114m of a forecasted 116m salary cap which gives no cap space but if we could re-negotiate Conleys deal so instead of making 34m he makes 18-20m over an additional 3-4 four years that would leave between 17-19m in cap space. Which for 17-19m that could potentially land one of the following players Gallanari, Favors, Bertans or Fournier at 16-20m or land a combination of Milsap, Ibaka, Saric, Gasol or Joe Harris @ 8-10m. Furthermore I believe we would still have the full MLE (9.7m) and BLE(3.8m). Assuming my maths is correct and this all legal you could potentially look at having a 8 man line up of Conley, Mitchell, O'Neale, Ingles, Gobert, Bogdanovic plus Fourner/Saric, Gasol/Bertans or maybe Gallanari on his own.

This probably isn't possible for whatever reason but if it is is definitely food for thought.
Think the only way this is possible is if Conley exercised his early termination option and resigned at a lower price. Though I think his cap hold would still limit us?

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Re: Future Free Agent Thread

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:37 pm
by SoCalJazzFan
Do the Jazz have Clarkson's bird rights? If so, they can go over the the cap to resign him.

Re: Future Free Agent Thread

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:44 am
by CAE15
SoCalJazzFan wrote:Do the Jazz have Clarkson's bird rights? If so, they can go over the the cap to resign him.
Yes we do have his bird rights. I believe our salary cap space is in reference to the luxury tax line?

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Re: Future Free Agent Thread

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:31 pm
by SoCalJazzFan
CAE15 wrote:
SoCalJazzFan wrote:Do the Jazz have Clarkson's bird rights? If so, they can go over the the cap to resign him.
Yes we do have his bird rights. I believe our salary cap space is in reference to the luxury tax line?

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As the Jazz have Clarkson's Bird rights, they can offer him up to 120% of his current salary, or up to $15M/yr. They can do that even if they are over the salary cap.

Worth noting that after extending Royce, the Jazz are at $118M salary for 12 players next season. Add in their FRP in the 20s, and that climbs to about $120M. The tax is estimated to be $141M, leaving the Jazz $23M to sign Clarkson and/or use their BAE and/or MLE exceptions (there would only be one roster spot left if Clarkson is resigned) to avoid going into luxury tax.

Re: Future Free Agent Thread

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:41 pm
by CallMeKahn
SoCalJazzFan wrote:
CAE15 wrote:
SoCalJazzFan wrote:Do the Jazz have Clarkson's bird rights? If so, they can go over the the cap to resign him.
Yes we do have his bird rights. I believe our salary cap space is in reference to the luxury tax line?

Sent from my SM-N950U using RealGM mobile app

As the Jazz have Clarkson's Bird rights, they can offer him up to 120% of his current salary, or up to $15M/yr. They can do that even if they are over the salary cap.

Worth noting that after extending Royce, the Jazz are at $118M salary for 12 players next season. Add in their FRP in the 20s, and that climbs to about $120M. The tax is estimated to be $141M, leaving the Jazz $23M to sign Clarkson and/or use their BAE and/or MLE exceptions (there would only be one roster spot left if Clarkson is resigned) to avoid going into luxury tax.


The only thing we need to keep in mind is re-upping Rudy and Maxing Donovan is going to make things very interesting in terms of numbers. I'm not really sure what their numbers will look like however, but we've only $45m committed to 20/21.

Re: Future Free Agent Thread

Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 1:03 am
by wco81
Yeah it doesn't seem likely that Jazz would go into the luxury tax just for Clarkson alone.

Depending on how they fare in the playoffs, they will have to evaluate how much they want to keep certain players.

If they at least get to the WCF and lose a competitive series there or do it in the Finals or win it all, sure keep the gang together.

Otherwise, for a small market team to pay luxury taxes on a team that can't get past the second round?

Re: Future Free Agent Thread

Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 1:03 am
by CAE15
CallMeKahn wrote:
SoCalJazzFan wrote:
CAE15 wrote:Yes we do have his bird rights. I believe our salary cap space is in reference to the luxury tax line?

Sent from my SM-N950U using RealGM mobile app

As the Jazz have Clarkson's Bird rights, they can offer him up to 120% of his current salary, or up to $15M/yr. They can do that even if they are over the salary cap.

Worth noting that after extending Royce, the Jazz are at $118M salary for 12 players next season. Add in their FRP in the 20s, and that climbs to about $120M. The tax is estimated to be $141M, leaving the Jazz $23M to sign Clarkson and/or use their BAE and/or MLE exceptions (there would only be one roster spot left if Clarkson is resigned) to avoid going into luxury tax.


The only thing we need to keep in mind is re-upping Rudy and Maxing Donovan is going to make things very interesting in terms of numbers. I'm not really sure what their numbers will look like however, but we've only $45m committed to 20/21.
We won't know how that looks until Conley either resigns at a more team friendly price or he's off the roster entirely.

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Re: Future Free Agent Thread

Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 1:21 am
by SoCalJazzFan
Jazz could resign Clarkson for mid-teen money and not go into the luxury tax.

Gobert will get roughly $45M and DM $30M the first year of their max contracts, bringing the total salary to roughly $120M assuming Conley is off the roster. If Clarkson is still on for say $15M, that would bring the total to roughly $135M, about $15M short of the estimated luxury tax to fill in with rookie contracts, minimum players and players signed with the exceptions. Hopefully, DM, Royce, Bogey and Gobert (and possibly Clarkson) make a great core as that who is we could see for a few years.

Re: Future Free Agent Thread

Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 1:26 am
by SoCalJazzFan
In another forum, somebody threw out Christian Woods as a player that we could use. I agree, and would be willing to give him a portion of the MLE, or even BAE, money this summer. I don't see a way to realistically trade for him this season, though.

Re: Future Free Agent Thread

Posted: Sat Feb 8, 2020 8:08 am
by babyjax13
Was thinking about a plan to create as much money for free agency as possible this offseason.

Trade 1:
Utah trades: Ed Davis, 2023 UTA 2nd, 2024 UTA 2nd, cash
Team X trades: nada
Someone will take us up on this. They pay part of Ed Davis' contract and get two seconds that - while in the future - still hold some value.

Trade 2:
Jazz trade: Mike Conley Jr., 2020 UTA 1st (23), 2021 GSW 2nd, 2024 CLE 2nd, cash
Jazz receive: nada
Great guy, bad fit. Mitchell is our point guard.

Bulls trade: Otto Porter Jr.
Bulls receive: Mike Conley Jr.
Chicago gets a veteran point guard to steady the ship and mentor their young guys. Conley probably helps them make the playoffs next season.

Knicks trade: Bobby Portis, 2020 CHA 2nd (38)
Knicks receive: Otto Porter Jr., 2020 UTA 1st (23), 2024 CLE 2nd
Knicks add a first, and takes the chance that Otto Porter Jr. might be moveable at the deadline for value, esp. considering the 2021 free agency class.

Charlotte trades: nada
Charlotte receives: Bobby Portis, 2020 CHA 2nd (38), 2021 GSW 2nd, cash
MJ is cheap, so I don't think the Knicks can be cut out. But in this case they get another 4/5 that can shoot, and they also get their second round pick back, plus another late 2nd in the future (for whatever that's worth), and cash.

This opens up about $37 million in cap space (if we were to renounce Jordan Clarkson - which I doubt we do). I assume we resign Clarkson. I think $8 million a year is fair, and I wouldn't go much over that ($10 million max, but I don't see him as worth more than Royce). So, $27 million to play with (assuming the $10 million). We'd basically be competing with only Minnesota to sign free agents that want to play for a potentially good team.

I'd imagine the goal would be a power forward and shooting guard, and that we'd prioritize defense at the power forward position. I also assume that Evan Fournier would be our top target, and an easy get w/Rudy. Don't hate it, basically becomes another JJ Reddick type for us. I'd imagine he'd sign for $15-18 million (let's say $15), leaving plenty of room for a good power forward. I'd want to target Jerami Grant (say $10/yr), just seems perfect for what we do. Use the remainder to bring back Mudiay ($2/yr). We could fill out the roster by using the room MLE on a defensive stopper (Craig?). In this way we'd basically have 'moved' Favors for Bojan, and Rubio + 3 1sts for Fournier/Grant. Not the greatest, but not horrific, and I think the roster is balanced after. Then we just go bargain hunting for a center (Ante Zizic?).

Rudy/Bradley/Zizic
Grant/Craig/Bojan
Ingles/Bojan
Fournier/Clarkson/Tucker
Mitchell/Mudiay/Clarkson

I think that team is pretty nasty, and the bench would be nuts. Tons of scoring, and playing with the capulator, I think we'd be hovering under the luxury tax once Mitchell and Rudy are resigned.

Re: Future Free Agent Thread

Posted: Sat Feb 8, 2020 9:33 pm
by zero24gravity
Former Jazzman Marvin Williams is available and could fit a role with the Jazz, however, he appears ready to sign with the Bucks, in place of D.Bender. Bender also could fit a backup role with the Jazz, who are seriously hurting for length. No, he's not great at playing big, but he can play 3 positions, and can't be any worse than Davis/Bradley. I like Niang, but he isn't long or athletic, which adds to the Jazz's issues of simply being tiny outside of Rudy. Kidd-Gilchrist also is getting released and would fit the bill as an athletic defender at the forward.

Small tweaks, but tweaks like that are needed to increase the length, flexibility and athleticism of the team, IMO. Just like with Clarkson as a bench scorer, it only takes one player to change things.

Re: Future Free Agent Thread

Posted: Sun Feb 9, 2020 3:17 pm
by Inigo Montoya
I'd be down with Bender. He has good size and is skilled and still young. He'd be a good player to get on the cheap and build his value through development.

Re: Future Free Agent Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:03 pm
by Wolverine
Is Broekhoff worth a look?

Re: Future Free Agent Thread

Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:35 pm
by Goober
Wolverine wrote:Is Broekhoff worth a look?

not really someone who we need with our current roster makeup

Re: Future Free Agent Thread

Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:20 am
by babyjax13
I'd like to see us split our MLE between Torrey Craig and Jae Crowder, if at all possible.

Re: Future Free Agent Thread

Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:38 am
by babyjax13
Kind of intrigued by flipping our first this offseason for Derrick White. Or seeing if we could somehow aggregate assets into someone a bit better (looking at the Spurs that might be Dejounte Murray, but a PF would be better).

Re: Future Free Agent Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:44 am
by KqWIN
babyjax13 wrote:Kind of intrigued by flipping our first this offseason for Derrick White. Or seeing if we could somehow aggregate assets into someone a bit better (looking at the Spurs that might be Dejounte Murray, but a PF would be better).


The guy I’d be targeting is Aaron Gordon. He’s had a very bad year, and he might be forever poisoned by ORL, but he’s the type of player we could really use. It might have to be a 3 team deal, but using Conley as the salary to bring back Gordon and Aminu would be a nice move.

DL needs to do a better job of ripping off the bad FO’s in the league.

Re: Future Free Agent Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:57 am
by babyjax13
KqWIN wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:Kind of intrigued by flipping our first this offseason for Derrick White. Or seeing if we could somehow aggregate assets into someone a bit better (looking at the Spurs that might be Dejounte Murray, but a PF would be better).


The guy I’d be targeting is Aaron Gordon. He’s had a very bad year, and he might be forever poisoned by ORL, but he’s the type of player we could really use. It might have to be a 3 team deal, but using Conley as the salary to bring back Gordon and Aminu would be a nice move.

DL needs to do a better job of ripping off the bad FO’s in the league.


I could see Conley + 2020 1st (23) + another 1st for Gordon+Aminu being a thing...but then we've effectively traded 6 first round picks for Gordon.

1st for Hill
1st for Rubio
2 1sts for Conley
2 1sts for Gordon

At some point you gotta figure out a way to stop hemorrhaging value. I think a better strategy is using a 1st to dump Conley into cap space (e.g. to New York). Then at the very least you sign two good players (lets say one of Fournier/Gallo and one of Millsap/Grant/Craig from Denver) with cap space, and use your room MLE on someone. 6 1sts for Fournier + starting power forward still sucks or Gallo + wing still sucks, but not nearly as much.

Our theatrics to get a point guard are the main area we've lost value, otherwise we've done pretty good (this includes the 5th pick on Dante...reportedly we wanted Gordon, but he went the pick before).

Re: Future Free Agent Thread

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:48 am
by babyjax13
Saw this on the philly board, honestly love the idea:

CHI out: Lavine, Porter
CHI in: Conley (buyout), Zhaire, 2020 UTH 1st, 2020 NYK 2nd, 2021 PHI 1st

PHI out: Harris, Zhaire, Scott, 2020 NYK 2nd, 2021 1st
PHI in: Lavine, Porter Jr.

UTAH out: Conley, 2020 1st
UTAH in: Harris, Scott

Leaves us with a monstrous offensive team.

Re: Future Free Agent Thread

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:34 pm
by KqWIN
The problem with going the cap space route is that you're likely losing Clarkson as well. Whoever you sign in FA has to be better than Conley, Clarkson, + whatever draft compensation is needed to get off of Conley. Think that's very difficult to pull of.

I'd explore the Gordon+Aminu angle, then look at the overpaid 4/5's. Blake, Horford, Love ect.