Future Free Agent Thread

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Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#1921 » by babyjax13 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:23 pm

KqWIN wrote:The problem with going the cap space route is that you're likely losing Clarkson as well. Whoever you sign in FA has to be better than Conley, Clarkson, + whatever draft compensation is needed to get off of Conley. Think that's very difficult to pull of.

I'd explore the Gordon+Aminu angle, then look at the overpaid 4/5's. Blake, Horford, Love ect.


Gordon + Aminu make almost as much as Tobias ($28 million vs. $33). Don't think that $5 million is the difference between retaining Clarkson or not, esp. since we have his bird rights (and the max he can be paid is $15 million). Plus Tobias is payed $1 million less than Conley.

Gobert $26/Bradley $3.5/Davis $5
Tobias $33/O'neale $8/Niang $1.6
Bojan $17.8/Jingles
Jingles $10.8/Clarkson $12/Tucker $1.5/Oni $1.5
Donovan $5.1/

The problem comes in subsequent years, obviously, but I think what happens is we pay one year of luxury tax then Joe expires and we are below it again (maybe this isn't the case). But as long as we have Rudy and Donovan, there will be ways to build a great team. I think the above, with the right targets with the MLE, is a championship contender.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#1922 » by KqWIN » Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:45 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
KqWIN wrote:The problem with going the cap space route is that you're likely losing Clarkson as well. Whoever you sign in FA has to be better than Conley, Clarkson, + whatever draft compensation is needed to get off of Conley. Think that's very difficult to pull of.

I'd explore the Gordon+Aminu angle, then look at the overpaid 4/5's. Blake, Horford, Love ect.


Gordon + Aminu make almost as much as Tobias ($28 million vs. $33). Don't think that $5 million is the difference between retaining Clarkson or not, esp. since we have his bird rights (and the max he can be paid is $15 million). Plus Tobias is payed $1 million less than Conley.

Gobert $26/Bradley $3.5/Davis $5
Tobias $33/O'neale $8/Niang $1.6
Bojan $17.8/Jingles
Jingles $10.8/Clarkson $12/Tucker $1.5/Oni $1.5
Donovan $5.1/

The problem comes in subsequent years, obviously, but I think what happens is we pay one year of luxury tax then Joe expires and we are below it again (maybe this isn't the case). But as long as we have Rudy and Donovan, there will be ways to build a great team. I think the above, with the right targets with the MLE, is a championship contender.


I was talking about trading Conley for pure cap. If you intend to use cap space, Clarkson is more or less gone.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#1923 » by babyjax13 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:39 pm

KqWIN wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
KqWIN wrote:The problem with going the cap space route is that you're likely losing Clarkson as well. Whoever you sign in FA has to be better than Conley, Clarkson, + whatever draft compensation is needed to get off of Conley. Think that's very difficult to pull of.

I'd explore the Gordon+Aminu angle, then look at the overpaid 4/5's. Blake, Horford, Love ect.


Gordon + Aminu make almost as much as Tobias ($28 million vs. $33). Don't think that $5 million is the difference between retaining Clarkson or not, esp. since we have his bird rights (and the max he can be paid is $15 million). Plus Tobias is payed $1 million less than Conley.

Gobert $26/Bradley $3.5/Davis $5
Tobias $33/O'neale $8/Niang $1.6
Bojan $17.8/Jingles
Jingles $10.8/Clarkson $12/Tucker $1.5/Oni $1.5
Donovan $5.1/

The problem comes in subsequent years, obviously, but I think what happens is we pay one year of luxury tax then Joe expires and we are below it again (maybe this isn't the case). But as long as we have Rudy and Donovan, there will be ways to build a great team. I think the above, with the right targets with the MLE, is a championship contender.


I was talking about trading Conley for pure cap. If you intend to use cap space, Clarkson is more or less gone.


I don't think so. Conley for pure cap (and also Davis) opens up more than enough room for Clarkson + a really good free agent (Gallo?).
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#1924 » by KqWIN » Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:48 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
I was talking about trading Conley for pure cap. If you intend to use cap space, Clarkson is more or less gone.

I don't think so. Conley for pure cap (and also Davis) opens up more than enough room for Clarkson + a really good free agent (Gallo?).





If you use cap space, you have to sign Clarkson using cap space. I suppose you can still sign him, but I feel like the point of cap space is to sign a player you couldn't before. You can't use all your cap space and then sign Clarkson on top of that.


FYI it's $13.6 with JC's cap hold, $33.7 without the hold.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#1925 » by babyjax13 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:48 pm

KqWIN wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
I was talking about trading Conley for pure cap. If you intend to use cap space, Clarkson is more or less gone.

I don't think so. Conley for pure cap (and also Davis) opens up more than enough room for Clarkson + a really good free agent (Gallo?).





If you use cap space, you have to sign Clarkson using cap space. I suppose you can still sign him, but I feel like the point of cap space is to sign a player you couldn't before. You can't use all your cap space and then sign Clarkson on top of that.


FYI it's $13.6 with JC's cap hold, $33.7 without the hold.


He won't be getting the value of his full caphold anyway. $33.7 million in space is enough for Clarkson + a $20 million/yr player.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#1926 » by babyjax13 » Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:17 am

Just because it is the only thing that keeps me entertained this season...I'm thinking about what we could get for some random assortment of players...

Who needs Bojan?
> Orlando needs scoring, possibly needs a small forward: Aaron Gordon for Bojan?
> Portland needs a forward, could always use spacing: Trevor Ariza + 14?
> Denver could use forward depth: Barton?
> Dallas could use a third option: THJ + 19
> Philadelphia needs spacing: Harris for Bojan+Royce?

Of those, the Orlando deal seems the most ideal, we might have to add on...but the Dallas one feels most realistic (and not ideal). For the Orlando deal, I might be tempted to add our first.

Who needs Joe?
> Portland: Ariza + 14
> Dallas: Delon Wright + 19 (and/or Dorian Finney-Smith)
> Denver: Barton
> Indiana: TJ Warren
> Milwaukee: George Hill + 18 + Sterling Brown
> LAL: Danny Green + Kyle Kuzma
> Toronto: Norman Powell + Chris Bouchar

Don't think any of these is worth it, but the Toronto and Milwaukee scenarios are at least interesting.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#1927 » by sipclip » Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:59 pm

babyjax13 wrote:Just because it is the only thing that keeps me entertained this season...I'm thinking about what we could get for some random assortment of players...

Who needs Bojan?
> Orlando needs scoring, possibly needs a small forward: Aaron Gordon for Bojan?
> Portland needs a forward, could always use spacing: Trevor Ariza + 14?
> Denver could use forward depth: Barton?
> Dallas could use a third option: THJ + 19
> Philadelphia needs spacing: Harris for Bojan+Royce?

Of those, the Orlando deal seems the most ideal, we might have to add on...but the Dallas one feels most realistic (and not ideal). For the Orlando deal, I might be tempted to add our first.

Who needs Joe?
> Portland: Ariza + 14
> Dallas: Delon Wright + 19 (and/or Dorian Finney-Smith)
> Denver: Barton
> Indiana: TJ Warren
> Milwaukee: George Hill + 18 + Sterling Brown
> LAL: Danny Green + Kyle Kuzma
> Toronto: Norman Powell + Chris Bouchar

Don't think any of these is worth it, but the Toronto and Milwaukee scenarios are at least interesting.
This is the exact type of thinking we should have. Bojan for Gordon makes sense for both teams. It clears the pf spot for Isaac and gives them a floor spacer.



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Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#1928 » by babyjax13 » Sat Feb 29, 2020 3:33 am

Kind of like Josh Hart. A rebounding machine for a guard. Might be willing to trade our first for him. Consensus on the trade board was Bojan for Gordon was fair, but might need a third team if Orlando prefers rebuilding assets. Also kind of like Conley + 2nds for Otto Porter. Don't mind keeping Bojan, but we need to make a change. Envisioning a lineup of core players of either:

Gobert/???
Porter Jr./???/O'neale
Bogdanovic/O'neale/Jingles
Jingles/Hart
Mitchell/Clarkson

Or:

Gobert
Gordon
Porter Jr.
Jingles/Hart
Mitchell/Clarkson
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#1929 » by dr0welf » Tue Mar 3, 2020 3:22 am

Jordan Bell anyone?
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#1930 » by babyjax13 » Tue Mar 3, 2020 5:40 am

dr0welf wrote:Jordan Bell anyone?


Nah. He doesn't really do anything well.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#1931 » by dr0welf » Tue Mar 3, 2020 9:49 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
dr0welf wrote:Jordan Bell anyone?


Nah. He doesn't really do anything well.


I liked him coming out of college, I thought he had some solid bench potential.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#1932 » by babyjax13 » Thu Apr 2, 2020 3:00 am

Juan Hernangomez is my MLE target. Shoots, rebounds, and is young.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#1933 » by Catchall » Thu Apr 2, 2020 3:32 am

Jerami Grant is likely to decline his player option, but I go back and forth on whether he'd help us. He defends and rebounds, shoots a bit.

Christian Wood is likely to get a few offers above the MLE.

I'd trade Royce O'Neale and #24 if it would move us up in the draft to #14 or #15 for Devin Vassell.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#1934 » by babyjax13 » Thu Apr 2, 2020 10:45 pm

Catchall wrote:Jerami Grant is likely to decline his player option, but I go back and forth on whether he'd help us. He defends and rebounds, shoots a bit.

Christian Wood is likely to get a few offers above the MLE.

I'd trade Royce O'Neale and #24 if it would move us up in the draft to #14 or #15 for Devin Vassell.


I like Grant, but I don't think he is an MLE player. I think Torrey Craig is much more impactful. I also think that Wood is nice on offense, but a mess defensively right now. Per trading up w/Royce, I would not mind it.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#1935 » by babyjax13 » Thu Apr 2, 2020 10:51 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
Catchall wrote:Jerami Grant is likely to decline his player option, but I go back and forth on whether he'd help us. He defends and rebounds, shoots a bit.

Christian Wood is likely to get a few offers above the MLE.

I'd trade Royce O'Neale and #24 if it would move us up in the draft to #14 or #15 for Devin Vassell.


I like Grant, but I don't think he is an MLE player. I think Torrey Craig is much more impactful. I also think that Wood is nice on offense, but a mess defensively right now. Per trading up w/Royce, I would not mind it.


Just looked up RAPTOR ratings

Grant
Offense: -2.1
Defense: -1.7

Craig
Offense: -0.7
Defense: -0.4

O'neale
Offense: +.5
Defense: +1.3

Hernangomez
Offense: -.6
Defense: -.2

Niang
Offense: +.7
Defense: -1.2

Wood (this one I am very wrong on)
Offense: +1.9
Defense: +2.6

I think Hernangomez is as good a shooter as Niang, so his offense would be positive on our team, and his defense should be passable, unlike Niang's. Grant, to me, has been overrated. His hypothetical skillset is nice, but it has not translated into high impact.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#1936 » by babyjax13 » Thu Apr 2, 2020 10:54 pm

Also FWIW, Clarkson
Offense: +3.4
Defense: -1.6

Clarkson is our best offensive player by RAPTOR, followed by Mitchell, Bogey, Niang, O'neal, Joe, and Conley (all positive). Rudy is slightly negative, Mudiay is very negative. Rudy's on/off Raptor on offense is positive, though, which I think is a result of his screen assists.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#1937 » by Catchall » Fri Apr 3, 2020 2:30 am

babyjax13 wrote:Kind of like Josh Hart. A rebounding machine for a guard. Might be willing to trade our first for him. Consensus on the trade board was Bojan for Gordon was fair, but might need a third team if Orlando prefers rebuilding assets. Also kind of like Conley + 2nds for Otto Porter. Don't mind keeping Bojan, but we need to make a change. Envisioning a lineup of core players of either:

Gobert/???
Porter Jr./???/O'neale
Bogdanovic/O'neale/Jingles
Jingles/Hart
Mitchell/Clarkson

Or:

Gobert
Gordon
Porter Jr.
Jingles/Hart
Mitchell/Clarkson


I think Rayjon Tucker is a rebounding machine for 2 also, tbh. I'm interested to see if he can work his way into the rotation.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#1938 » by babyjax13 » Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:31 am

I wonder if we could add Davis Bertans or Nikola Mirotic for the MLE. Probably not (don't think Mirotic is coming back, think Washington will give Bertans more than the MLE) but they could be good fits. Still really interested in Juan Hernangomez, as well as a return of Paul Millsap.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#1939 » by babyjax13 » Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:47 am

Álex Abrines might also generate some interest.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#1940 » by babyjax13 » Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:09 am

Should be doing homework...instead, here is an offseason plan:

Trade:
Utah trades/Philadelphia receives: Bojan Bogdanovic, Mike Conley, Ed Davis ($57 million)
Philadelphia trades/Utah receives: Tobias Harris, Al Horford, Furkan Korkmaz, 2020 OKC 1st (22), 2021 NYK 2nd ($63 million)
Harris is a more dynamic offensive player than Bogey, but less of a pure shooter. I'd love to have both, and Harris has a big contract, but I really think he'd be the perfect third banana on this team. Horford's contract is really bad, but we get some cost controlled contracts in return to balance it out a bit. I also think that he offers some really nice depth, and that he could be flipped at the deadline if we wanted.

Free agency:
Bring back Clarkson
MLE: can't use the whole thing to avoid the luxury tax, but bring back Mudiay

Draft
22: Landro Bolmaro
24: Tyler Bey (or Patrick Williams, if available)

Depth Chart
Gobert 34/Horford 14/Bradley
Harris 32/Niang 8/Horford 8/Bey
Ingles 26/O'neale 16/Niang 6/Bolmaro
O'neale 8/Clarkson 24/Korkmaz 16/Tucker
Mitchell 34/Mudiay 14

I think we'd have one of the better second units in the league, and we'd have some tremendous talent in the gleague (Bolmaro/Tucker/Bradley/Brantley/Oni). I think your goal in this case is to be the third best team in the Western Conference (we would be) and have a chance to beat one of the LA teams either if a) you get hot, or b) they have an injury to a rotation player. I don't feel like our current roster could, but this one might.
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