Future Free Agent Thread

Moderators: FJS, Inigo Montoya

Rauxcee
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,593
And1: 3,063
Joined: Jan 07, 2006
 

Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#541 » by Rauxcee » Thu May 16, 2019 12:21 am

KqWIN wrote:
Losing Hayward was due to their own bad, very bad, blunder years before. Had they not been so cheap (I'm calling them cheap because otherwise they are dumb), Hayward never could have left for BOS.


I disagree. With or without the cheap front office move, every reason Hayward left would still be present: his college coach, easier all star bid, easier path to the finals. And, if he had 1 more year with us, he would have seen a young, up and coming Boston team almost beat LeBron in the conference finals.

Hayward leaves regardless.
KqWIN
RealGM
Posts: 15,520
And1: 6,360
Joined: May 15, 2014
 

Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#542 » by KqWIN » Thu May 16, 2019 12:27 am

Rauxcee wrote:
KqWIN wrote:
Losing Hayward was due to their own bad, very bad, blunder years before. Had they not been so cheap (I'm calling them cheap because otherwise they are dumb), Hayward never could have left for BOS.


I disagree. With or without the cheap front office move, every reason Hayward left would still be present: his college coach, easier all star bid, easier path to the finals. And, if he had 1 more year with us, he would have seen a young, up and coming Boston team almost beat LeBron in the conference finals.

Hayward leaves regardless.


Boston would not have had the cap to sign him last summer. He could have not gone there. Maybe he signs up somewhere else anyways...but maybe he doesn't want to leave if we aren't so damn cheap in the first place.
User avatar
CAE15
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,141
And1: 699
Joined: Jul 16, 2006
Location: Udoka Azubuike Central
   

Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#543 » by CAE15 » Thu May 16, 2019 8:57 pm

KqWIN wrote:
Rauxcee wrote:
KqWIN wrote:
Losing Hayward was due to their own bad, very bad, blunder years before. Had they not been so cheap (I'm calling them cheap because otherwise they are dumb), Hayward never could have left for BOS.


I disagree. With or without the cheap front office move, every reason Hayward left would still be present: his college coach, easier all star bid, easier path to the finals. And, if he had 1 more year with us, he would have seen a young, up and coming Boston team almost beat LeBron in the conference finals.

Hayward leaves regardless.


Boston would not have had the cap to sign him last summer. He could have not gone there. Maybe he signs up somewhere else anyways...but maybe he doesn't want to leave if we aren't so damn cheap in the first place.
He got petty, many teams have their players find their value on the market. To act like a Hayward who put up 16,5,5,1.5 with 3 TOs on 41,30,81 splits was worth the full 5 year max (before the cap exploded) that's just not max numbers for a #1 guy. There was so many people saying he wasn't worth it and at the time, no he wasn't but he grew into it. He got his offer from the Hornets and we then matched. Contract went by and he said peace out, well he pretty much didn't show up, didn't say anything to anyone and without him leaving now you have he and Hood in there same spots. Hayward stays at 1 and Hood at 2. Hood never feels the pressure of having to be the #1 option. Much less opportunity for Mitchell to make an impact off the bench.

Should we have offered the full 5 year max to a guy who wasn't really worth max yet we paid it out anyway? Yeah, probably. Did we expect him to hold a grudge despite us helping him develop into a top 30 player? No.

Sent from my SM-N950U using RealGM mobile app
Image
KqWIN
RealGM
Posts: 15,520
And1: 6,360
Joined: May 15, 2014
 

Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#544 » by KqWIN » Thu May 16, 2019 9:24 pm

CAE15 wrote:
KqWIN wrote:
Rauxcee wrote:
I disagree. With or without the cheap front office move, every reason Hayward left would still be present: his college coach, easier all star bid, easier path to the finals. And, if he had 1 more year with us, he would have seen a young, up and coming Boston team almost beat LeBron in the conference finals.

Hayward leaves regardless.


Boston would not have had the cap to sign him last summer. He could have not gone there. Maybe he signs up somewhere else anyways...but maybe he doesn't want to leave if we aren't so damn cheap in the first place.
He got petty, many teams have their players find their value on the market. To act like a Hayward who put up 16,5,5,1.5 with 3 TOs on 41,30,81 splits was worth the full 5 year max (before the cap exploded) that's just not max numbers for a #1 guy. There was so many people saying he wasn't worth it and at the time, no he wasn't but he grew into it. He got his offer from the Hornets and we then matched. Contract went by and he said peace out, well he pretty much didn't show up, didn't say anything to anyone and without him leaving now you have he and Hood in there same spots. Hayward stays at 1 and Hood at 2. Hood never feels the pressure of having to be the #1 option. Much less opportunity for Mitchell to make an impact off the bench.

Should we have offered the full 5 year max to a guy who wasn't really worth max yet we paid it out anyway? Yeah, probably. Did we expect him to hold a grudge despite us helping him develop into a top 30 player? No.

Sent from my SM-N950U using RealGM mobile app


Hayward didn’t ask for a full 5 year max. The reports say the Jazz were firm at 4/48 while Hayward wanted 52-56. The difference in those numbers are inconsequential in terms of cap planning. There’s really no argument as to why you’d be willing to go to 48 and not to 52 other than you want to be cheap. Especially with the cap going up, which was 100% public knowledge already.

The fact that he got multiple max offers after a terrible season shows how badly this was fumbled. Why did he get so much interest? Because everyone new that it wasn’t a real max and the cap was going. Hayward didn’t earn his contract with his play, he got it because the cap was rising. Everything that got him the offer sheet was known at the time of renegotiation. The only new thing we learned was that Hayward had a bad season, and it didn’t matter.

The whole concept of being “worth” a max just doesn’t address the situation properly. For one, people attach an emotional connotation to the words “max contract” that polluted the correct decision making process. More importantly, it wasn’t even a real max contract because the cap was going up anyways.

There’s only two ways you can look back on this situation. Either the Jazz were incredibly stupid and lacked any sort of foresight about the cap rising...or they were being cheap and price gouged him.
zero24gravity
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,698
And1: 842
Joined: Jan 08, 2017
 

Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#545 » by zero24gravity » Fri May 17, 2019 6:42 pm

KqWIN wrote:There’s only two ways you can look back on this situation. Either the Jazz were incredibly stupid and lacked any sort of foresight about the cap rising...or they were being cheap and price gouged him.


It appears that there are more than two ways to look at it since there are other opinions about that matter. Just sayin'. ;)
Jingles2
Junior
Posts: 326
And1: 63
Joined: Jun 27, 2017

Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#546 » by Jingles2 » Sat May 18, 2019 1:00 am

I have to say I think Malcolm Brogdon would be a great fit with Mitchell. He can play the one and two, he's a good defender, and a pretty decent shooter. I'm not sure of health/injury concerns, but I have to think he's going to get a good pay day. Do you think 4/70 would be in the ball park if what it would take to sign him?
D Rog
Junior
Posts: 276
And1: 83
Joined: Dec 20, 2018
   

Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#547 » by D Rog » Sat May 18, 2019 1:40 am

I would think the Bucks would hang on to Brogdon at 4 years at $70M. He is a RFA. I imagine Milwaukee is happy to pay luxury tax for an Eastern Conference Champion & they won't break up this team. The Jazz can't afford to wait 3 days while Milwaukee decides if they are going to match. Maybe some type of sign & trade but what do the Jazz have that Milwaukee wants?
D Rog
Junior
Posts: 276
And1: 83
Joined: Dec 20, 2018
   

Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#548 » by D Rog » Sat May 18, 2019 1:43 am

Jingles2 wrote:I have to say I think Malcolm Brogdon would be a great fit with Mitchell. He can play the one and two, he's a good defender, and a pretty decent shooter. I'm not sure of health/injury concerns, but I have to think he's going to get a good pay day. Do you think 4/70 would be in the ball park if what it would take to sign him?


I would think the Bucks would hang on to Brogdon at 4 years at $70M. He is a RFA. I imagine Milwaukee is happy to pay luxury tax for an Eastern Conference Champion & they won't break up this team. The Jazz can't afford to wait 3 days while Milwaukee decides if they are going to match. Maybe some type of sign & trade but what do the Jazz have that Milwaukee wants?
User avatar
Inigo Montoya
Forum Mod - Jazz
Forum Mod - Jazz
Posts: 16,004
And1: 7,464
Joined: May 31, 2012

Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#549 » by Inigo Montoya » Sat May 18, 2019 12:49 pm

D Rog wrote:I would think the Bucks would hang on to Brogdon at 4 years at $70M. He is a RFA. I imagine Milwaukee is happy to pay luxury tax for an Eastern Conference Champion & they won't break up this team. The Jazz can't afford to wait 3 days while Milwaukee decides if they are going to match. Maybe some type of sign & trade but what do the Jazz have that Milwaukee wants?

Welcome to the board.

I actually think the Jazz can wait 3 days, especially if they make the offer on the first day of free agency. Brogdon isn't a top-tier free agent (meaning KD, Leonard, Irving level, etc.) and those are the ones who'll be targeted first. If the Bucks match, they'll likely have to let Mirotic go, so the Jazz could apply the pressure and go after either one, or both (not at the same time). It's not like the Jazz are competing for the top free agents. But 4\70 will likely get matched, I agree.
Draft Nate Wolters - FAILED
Keep Nate Wolters - FAILED
Image
KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.
User avatar
CAE15
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,141
And1: 699
Joined: Jul 16, 2006
Location: Udoka Azubuike Central
   

Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#550 » by CAE15 » Sat May 18, 2019 1:59 pm

Brogdon to maybe not get matched is over 20 million per year IMO and because the bucks are contenders, may just match that too.

Sent from my SM-N950U using RealGM mobile app
Image
sipclip
Head Coach
Posts: 6,859
And1: 1,240
Joined: Jan 20, 2005

Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#551 » by sipclip » Sat May 18, 2019 2:34 pm

I'm really starting to warm up to the idea of going after Julius Randle. The guy is just entering his prime and has gotten better and expanded his game every year. He took a massive jump in his 3pt shooting this last year and I think he eventually settles in as a 36-38% shooter which is just fine for me. That means he has to be guarded out there. Defensively I thought he was awesome his last year with the Lakers but not very good for the pelicans. That shows it is more of an effort thing than anything and I think Rudy will hold him accountable on that end of the court.

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app
AingesBurner
RealGM
Posts: 14,759
And1: 3,737
Joined: Jan 18, 2013
   

Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#552 » by AingesBurner » Sat May 18, 2019 3:09 pm

sipclip wrote:I'm really starting to warm up to the idea of going after Julius Randle. The guy is just entering his prime and has gotten better and expanded his game every game. He took a massive jump in his 3pt shooting this last year and I think he eventually settles in as a 36-38% shooter which is just fine for me. That means he has to be guarded out there. Defensively I thought he was awesome his last year with the Lakers but not very good for the pelicans. That shows it is more of an effort thing than anything and I think Rudy will hold him accountable on that end of the court.

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app


I would be stoked if we got Randle.
Ingles is cooked.
sipclip
Head Coach
Posts: 6,859
And1: 1,240
Joined: Jan 20, 2005

Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#553 » by sipclip » Sat May 18, 2019 3:11 pm

AingesBurner
RealGM
Posts: 14,759
And1: 3,737
Joined: Jan 18, 2013
   

Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#554 » by AingesBurner » Sat May 18, 2019 3:11 pm

sipclip wrote:I'm really starting to warm up to the idea of going after Julius Randle. The guy is just entering his prime and has gotten better and expanded his game every game. He took a massive jump in his 3pt shooting this last year and I think he eventually settles in as a 36-38% shooter which is just fine for me. That means he has to be guarded out there. Defensively I thought he was awesome his last year with the Lakers but not very good for the pelicans. That shows it is more of an effort thing than anything and I think Rudy will hold him accountable on that end of the court.

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app


I would be stoked if we got Randle.
Ingles is cooked.
sipclip
Head Coach
Posts: 6,859
And1: 1,240
Joined: Jan 20, 2005

Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#555 » by sipclip » Sat May 18, 2019 3:15 pm

KqWIN
RealGM
Posts: 15,520
And1: 6,360
Joined: May 15, 2014
 

Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#556 » by KqWIN » Sat May 18, 2019 5:21 pm

I've been on the Randle train for awhile. One of the reasons Favors-Gobert doesn't work is the shooting, but it also doesn't work because Favors has no perimeter or guard skills whatsoever. Randle has ball skills and can attack from the perimeter. If you sag off on him, he'll kill you on cuts and will run over you at the rim if you give him a running start. You also can't switch against him because he will annihilate smaller players inside. His bull in a china shop game is as good as anyone besides Giannis.

He still with lots of upside. What if he does improve his jumpshot? What if he improves his awareness and BBIQ? Randle has only played with toxic franchises, and he's got so many areas to improve. The way I see it, Randle is pretty damn good as it is. But he also has great upside to go along with it.
Crunch 99
General Manager
Posts: 7,669
And1: 3,679
Joined: Jan 05, 2017
 

Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#557 » by Crunch 99 » Sat May 18, 2019 5:30 pm

Lakers are reportedly targeting Favors (should the Jazz decline the team option).
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/253842/Lakers-Reportedly-Targeting-Bradley-Beal-Derrick-Favors-In-Summer-Moves
User avatar
stitches
RealGM
Posts: 14,412
And1: 6,811
Joined: Jul 14, 2014
 

Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#558 » by stitches » Sat May 18, 2019 5:35 pm

Crunch 99 wrote:Lakers are reportedly targeting Favors (should the Jazz decline the team option).
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/253842/Lakers-Reportedly-Targeting-Bradley-Beal-Derrick-Favors-In-Summer-Moves

We should trade him for Ingram or Kuzma ... once they miss on all the big FAs.
KqWIN
RealGM
Posts: 15,520
And1: 6,360
Joined: May 15, 2014
 

Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#559 » by KqWIN » Sat May 18, 2019 6:15 pm

stitches wrote:
Crunch 99 wrote:Lakers are reportedly targeting Favors (should the Jazz decline the team option).
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/253842/Lakers-Reportedly-Targeting-Bradley-Beal-Derrick-Favors-In-Summer-Moves

We should trade him for Ingram or Kuzma ... once they miss on all the big FAs.


Neither of those two are ideal fits next to Zion. If AD is traded to LA, maybe the Pels prefer Favors to one of them.
User avatar
babyjax13
RealGM
Posts: 31,029
And1: 14,285
Joined: Jul 02, 2006
Location: Tuscaloosa Alabama
Contact:
     

Re: Future Free Agent Thread 

Post#560 » by babyjax13 » Sat May 18, 2019 6:33 pm

KqWIN wrote:I've been on the Randle train for awhile. One of the reasons Favors-Gobert doesn't work is the shooting, but it also doesn't work because Favors has no perimeter or guard skills whatsoever. Randle has ball skills and can attack from the perimeter. If you sag off on him, he'll kill you on cuts and will run over you at the rim if you give him a running start. You also can't switch against him because he will annihilate smaller players inside. His bull in a china shop game is as good as anyone besides Giannis.

He still with lots of upside. What if he does improve his jumpshot? What if he improves his awareness and BBIQ? Randle has only played with toxic franchises, and he's got so many areas to improve. The way I see it, Randle is pretty damn good as it is. But he also has great upside to go along with it.


Completely agree. We might be best off grabbing him the first day (unless we wait to see if Kyrie signs in Brooklyn so we can grab Russel ). He's also younger than all the max FAs.
Image

JazzMatt13 wrote:just because I think aliens probably have to do with JFK, doesn't mean my theory that Jazz will never get Wiggins, isn't true.

JColl

Return to Utah Jazz