2018-19 Utah Jazz Regular Season Thread

KqWIN · Post #301 » by **KqWIN** » Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:58 pm

Random question of the day. Who is a better center, Favors or Steven Adams?

stitches · Post #302 » by **stitches** » Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:49 pm

KqWIN wrote:Random question of the day. Who is a better center, Favors or Steven Adams?

I'm biased. Favors is above average starting center in the league. He's might be top 10... or borderline.

Here's his updated stats at center this year(minutes without Gobert on the floor):
per36:

21/14/2/2.5/1.5 on 65%TS

RIDICULOUS!

Rauxcee · Post #303 » by **Rauxcee** » Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:23 pm

My favorite part was the 100% 3 point shooting. Let's get Gobert off the floor more often. :lol:

But in all seriousness, I think this is Favors best season he's ever had. He's been so great. I thought he'd be gone for sure next season, now I'm not sure you can let him go, despite fit, that's how good he's been.

I wish there was a way to have both Favors and a stretch 4 that could shoot consistently.

LesGrossman · Post #304 » by **LesGrossman** » Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:56 am

Favors is great. Adams is great in other ways. I think the OKC Thunder would be **** without Adams, All stars or not. I dont think Favors makes THAT much of a difference for the Jazz.

That being said i'm very glad he hasnt been traded. This is an exceptional situation and unique chance - no real modern 4, but instead two full size starting centers.

KqWIN · Post #305 » by **KqWIN** » Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:22 am

Favors doesn't make THAT much of a difference because he can only play 12-16 minutes at C and spends another 12 playing out of position at PF where he's an offensive liability. It would be different if he was playing 32 minutes a night and we didn't have a star C in front of him.

IMO, there are 6 centers who I'd put in a tier above him. Jokic, Embiid, Gobert, Towns, Nurkic, and Vucevic. If he was a C and only a C, I think he'd be right there in the next tier with Horford, Gasol, Adams, and Capela.

TNJazz · Post #306 » by **TNJazz** » Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:13 pm

I know consensus has been to trade Favors for a stretch, but putting him in the 2nd tier of centers shows just how valuable he is to this team. Who else has that solid a backup? I don't disagree that he makes it a bit crowded in the middle while playing alongside Gobert, but there are trade offs and I think his attitude of being the backup 5 and starting 4 is a small price to pay for what he brings. His attitude, professionalism, and genuine character all make him a player I want on this team. He has been flat out balling lately and while Gobert and DM get most of the spotlight, Favors just keeps doing his yeoman work remaining off the radar and killing it. I hope he stays, and we somehow find another wing be it a 4 or 3 that can help give spacing but use the two bigs to our advantage. Both Favors and Gobert do a terrific job at guarding on the perimeter so we don't lose much there. This is an advantage I wish we would exploit more, both are agile and both can guard almost any 4-5 in the league. Advantage Jazz.

Post #307 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:32 pm

I love Favors as much as the next guy but I think Adams is a better C, and it's not even a hard question.

KqWIN · Post #308 » by **KqWIN** » Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:51 pm

Favors is a luxury at backup C, but the cost is that you have to handicap yourself for 12 minutes by playing him at PF and you are not paying him like a backup. Having him might also prevent you from getting an actual PF.

Backup C, no matter how good he is, does very little as far as increasesing the ceiling of your team when your best player is also a C. Especially when you half of his minutes are spent as a liability in the corner.

I don’t think there’s any player that goes through a more drastic changes in role during a game. He alters between a corner three point shooter, which he is the worst at in the league, to a roll man where he is one of the best.

babyjax13 · Post #309 » by **babyjax13** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:22 pm

KqWIN wrote:Favors is a luxury at backup C, but the cost is that you have to handicap yourself for 12 minutes by playing him at PF and you are not paying him like a backup. Having him might also prevent you from getting an actual PF.

Backup C, no matter how good he is, does very little as far as increasesing the ceiling of your team when your best player is also a C. Especially when you half of his minutes are spent as a liability in the corner.

I don’t think there’s any player that goes through a more drastic changes in role during a game. He alters between a corner three point shooter, which he is the worst at in the league, to a roll man where he is one of the best.

Eh, do we even play him that much at power forward? He averages 23 minutes a game and rudy averages 32, so it's more like 7-8 minutes at power forward. Regardless, he gives us a huge edge. No other team has a two way center as a backup near the caliber of Favors. I think he's just as impactful as a Gallinari would be for us. That being said, I think he'll be a Hawk next year and we'll be sad he's gone.

KqWIN · Post #310 » by **KqWIN** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:55 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
KqWIN wrote:Favors is a luxury at backup C, but the cost is that you have to handicap yourself for 12 minutes by playing him at PF and you are not paying him like a backup. Having him might also prevent you from getting an actual PF.

Backup C, no matter how good he is, does very little as far as increasesing the ceiling of your team when your best player is also a C. Especially when you half of his minutes are spent as a liability in the corner.

I don’t think there’s any player that goes through a more drastic changes in role during a game. He alters between a corner three point shooter, which he is the worst at in the league, to a roll man where he is one of the best.

Eh, do we even play him that much at power forward? He averages 23 minutes a game and rudy averages 32, so it's more like 7-8 minutes at power forward. Regardless, he gives us a huge edge. No other team has a two way center as a backup near the caliber of Favors. I think he's just as impactful as a Gallinari would be for us. That being said, I think he'll be a Hawk next year and we'll be sad he's gone.

It’s 42% of his minutes, so more like 9-10.

I don’t think he would have same impact as Gallo (if Gallo is healthy), especially in a playoff series where Rudy should be playing more. 12 minutes of great backup C with 10 minutes of bad PF is not the same as 30+ minutes of good PF. Gallo is damn good btw. He’s exactly what the team needs offensively.

AGE1207 · Post #311 » by **AGE1207** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:13 pm

We'd have to wait for the outcome of those last 8-9 games but I have already come to the conclusion that we are a better team than last year. The Jazz 2019 would easily beat the Jazz 2018, so job well done.

However, the problem as I see it, is that whilst we did improve (slightly), we did so in an ever more competitive West, where most of our competitors progressed a lot more than we did.
Denver got healthy, Houston always has Harden, Warriors play in a league of their own (if they choose to), Portland, OKC & LAC look deeper, the Spurs needed some time to digest Aldridge and luckily, AD decided to torpedo NO or they would have battled for that 8th spot. LeBron moved West and couldn't get things going, such is the strength of this conference.

I know, it's always next season, but to me, next season is the one. Next season is the one where we want to jump to 60 wins and get a genuine chance at a ring. I hope our FO sees things the same way and can get it done.

KqWIN · Post #312 » by **KqWIN** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:57 pm

Looks like we already have a new slogan and buzz word. “Consistency”.

Read on Twitter

?

LesGrossman · Post #313 » by **LesGrossman** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:01 pm

The team is fine, btu has issues (as written elsewhere often enough). Not sure abotu the "better than last season" part. I feel like offense came easier (less chucking, less pump faking, ball stopping, being "sticky"), while on D other teams have scouted and adjusted to the Jazz. They still cant reilably score over Rudy, but now they know it, accepted it, and actively look for short jumpers and floaters. My prediction is that we'll see a ton of those from the other teams guards. I think the crucial players for the success will not be Mitchell or Rudy but rather Ricky, Ingles and Crowder. We'll need one or more of them to catch fire in order to win a series, but it can happen.

KqWIN · Post #314 » by **KqWIN** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:25 pm

I can get behind the argument that we’re better this season, at least from a regular season standpoint. Rudy didn’t get injured (knock on wood) and improvements from Jae, Favors, and the addition of Korver have made us marginally better. But our ceiling is more or less the same. These upgrades haven’t change the outlook of the team, but they did offset some regression from Rubio, Mitchell, and Ingles.

I think Quin is pretty close to maximizing the current talent level of this team. We have the best defense in the league. One could argue that we should have the best defense by an even larger margin...but hard to complain with #1. Short jumpers and floaters are the worst shots in basketball. That is a huge reason why we’ve been the best defense this year and over the past several years with Gobert.

Offensively, we are mediocre, but mediocre isn’t bad for our talent level. I don’t look at this roster and think that we should be more than what we are. If we wanted to be a better offensive team, we’d need better players and/or see improvement from the players. Especially from the ball handler/shot creation standpoint.

We are “fine” if you think second round exits are success. Personally, I want to see improvement, and we didn’t see much of that. Don’t get me wrong, some canvases would kill to be in our position, but that shouldn’t mean that we have to be satisfied with what we have and don’t look to improve.

stitches · Post #315 » by **stitches** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:41 pm

KqWIN wrote:I can get behind the argument that we’re better this season, at least from a regular season standpoint. Rudy didn’t get injured (knock on wood) and improvements from Jae, Favors, and the addition of Korver have made us marginally better. But our ceiling is more or less the same. These upgrades haven’t change the outlook of the team, but they did offset some regression from Rubio, Mitchell, and Ingles.

I think Quin is pretty close to maximizing the current talent level of this team. We have the best defense in the league. One could argue that we should have the best defense by an even larger margin...but hard to complain with #1. Short jumpers and floaters are the worst shots in basketball. That is a huge reason why we’ve been the best defense this year and over the past several years with Gobert.

Offensively, we are mediocre, but mediocre isn’t bad for our talent level. I don’t look at this roster and think that we should be more than what we are. If we wanted to be a better offensive team, we’d need better players and/or see improvement from the players. Especially from the ball handler/shot creation standpoint.

We are “fine” if you think second round exits are success. Personally, I want to see improvement, and we didn’t see much of that. Don’t get me wrong, some canvases would kill to be in our position, but that shouldn’t mean that we have to be satisfied with what we have and don’t look to improve.

Wholeheartedly agree with most here. We are doing well with what we have. Elite defense, OK offense. If we want to be better offensively we need better offensive talent. Besides Mitchell we have nobody to create anything for this team. We have to rely on the system and the system has done well for the team... but the system can only get us this far. We need infusion of talent. Just imagine that for 15 minutes a game the best offensive talent on the floor for the Jazz is the Jingles/Favors combo. I love them both, but come on. No wonder we go on dry spells ... if you cannot make the PnR work on certain nights or if our role players can't hit a shot we are dead in the water.

KqWIN · Post #316 » by **KqWIN** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:02 pm

stitches wrote:
KqWIN wrote:I can get behind the argument that we’re better this season, at least from a regular season standpoint. Rudy didn’t get injured (knock on wood) and improvements from Jae, Favors, and the addition of Korver have made us marginally better. But our ceiling is more or less the same. These upgrades haven’t change the outlook of the team, but they did offset some regression from Rubio, Mitchell, and Ingles.

I think Quin is pretty close to maximizing the current talent level of this team. We have the best defense in the league. One could argue that we should have the best defense by an even larger margin...but hard to complain with #1. Short jumpers and floaters are the worst shots in basketball. That is a huge reason why we’ve been the best defense this year and over the past several years with Gobert.

Offensively, we are mediocre, but mediocre isn’t bad for our talent level. I don’t look at this roster and think that we should be more than what we are. If we wanted to be a better offensive team, we’d need better players and/or see improvement from the players. Especially from the ball handler/shot creation standpoint.

We are “fine” if you think second round exits are success. Personally, I want to see improvement, and we didn’t see much of that. Don’t get me wrong, some canvases would kill to be in our position, but that shouldn’t mean that we have to be satisfied with what we have and don’t look to improve.

Wholeheartedly agree with most here. We are doing well with what we have. Elite defense, OK offense. If we want to be better offensively we need better offensive talent. Besides Mitchell we have nobody to create anything for this team. We have to rely on the system and the system has done well for the team... but the system can only get us this far. We need infusion of talent. Just imagine that for 15 minutes a game the best offensive talent on the floor for the Jazz is the Jingles/Favors combo. I love them both, but come on. No wonder we go on dry spells ... if you cannot make the PnR work on certain nights or if our role players can't hit a shot we are dead in the water.

When we struggle, it’s almost always due to poor shot making. I feel like the only way to stump us is to leave someone open and hope that they miss. It works often because we don’t have shot makers/creators, but that’s not really a Quin thing. He really does put our players in advantageous situations. Whether they can convert or not...that’s been the issue.

I think it’s remarkable that we get the quality of shots that we do without having an actual offensive star.

stitches · Post #317 » by **stitches** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:09 pm

KqWIN wrote:
When we struggle, it’s almost always due to poor shot making. I feel like the only way to stump us is to leave someone open and hope that they miss. It works often because we don’t have shot makers/creators, but that’s not really a Quin thing. He really does put our players in advantageous situations. Whether they can convert or not...that’s been the issue.

I think it’s remarkable that we get the quality of shots that we do without having an actual offensive star.

Imagine prime Hayward minus the injury on this team. Holy ****! This could have been a great team. And it's not like I'm asking for an MVP candidate. I'm asking for like... a good secondary creator to help Mitchell a bit with the offensive load. I think Quin is underrated with the way he runs his team, the way he prepares the team, the way he plans for games... ATO plays... it's ridiculous the quality of shots we are getting after most ATOs.

KqWIN · Post #318 » by **KqWIN** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:21 pm

stitches wrote:
KqWIN wrote:
When we struggle, it’s almost always due to poor shot making. I feel like the only way to stump us is to leave someone open and hope that they miss. It works often because we don’t have shot makers/creators, but that’s not really a Quin thing. He really does put our players in advantageous situations. Whether they can convert or not...that’s been the issue.

I think it’s remarkable that we get the quality of shots that we do without having an actual offensive star.

Imagine prime Hayward minus the injury on this team. Holy ****! This could have been a great team. And it's not like I'm asking for an MVP candidate. I'm asking for like... a good secondary creator to help Mitchell a bit with the offensive load. I think Quin is underrated with the way he runs his team, the way he prepares the team, the way he plans for games... ATO plays... it's ridiculous the quality of shots we are getting after most ATOs.

We’d be so damn good. It makes me so frustrated to think about what could have been. I think we would be in the mix for the #1 seed had he not left.

Meanwhile, Boston wouldn’t even be a playoff team if they were in the west...So much weirdness going on.

stitches · Post #319 » by **stitches** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:40 pm

KqWIN wrote:We’d be so damn good. It makes me so frustrated to think about what could have been. I think we would be in the mix for the #1 seed had he not left.

Meanwhile, Boston wouldn’t even be a playoff team if they were in the west...So much weirdness going on.

The Boston thing is so weird. Pretty much everyone is under-performing this season for them. I guess Kyrie's "leadership" is indeed of the toxic variety... and Haywood receiving the Shelvin Mack coach's pet treatment is not helping with their wings chemistry.

stitches · Post #320 » by **stitches** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:40 pm

KqWIN wrote:We’d be so damn good. It makes me so frustrated to think about what could have been. I think we would be in the mix for the #1 seed had he not left.

Meanwhile, Boston wouldn’t even be a playoff team if they were in the west...So much weirdness going on.

The Boston thing is so weird. Pretty much everyone is under-performing this season for them. I guess Kyrie's "leadership" is indeed of the toxic variety... and Haywood receiving the Shelvin Mack coach's pet treatment is not helping with their wings chemistry.