Putting Dante Exum into perspective

Post #21 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:00 pm

Probably too soon for that. Rubio started last season slow too. And I can't see the Jazz making Rubio a second string PG in a contract year--I just don't think they'll do that to him.

zero24gravity · Post #22 » by **zero24gravity** » Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:27 pm

DudeJustDidThis wrote:
KDBG wrote:
DudeJustDidThis wrote:How's that first step been looking this season?

Much respect to Utah for sticking with him through all of his setbacks.

It looks even quicker before the ACL tear. Part of it is that he is absolutely fearless now. He's almost too aggressive now though. He needs to learn how to absorb contact, so he doesn't slam to the floor every game. His shot looks so much better as well. Can potentially be a perfect sidekick to Mitchell. If the Warriors have the best shooting backcourt in the league, we will have the most explosive/athletic.

Stat wise it's looking like they haven't played too many minutes together. Shame. But from what I've seen, especially last year in the playoffs vs. OKC, he's shown legitimate improvements. An Exum/Mitchell backcourt would fare decently defensively I would reckon as well.

I think they don't play together by design. Coach wants one of them on the floor at all times (like Gobert & Favs), since they both are aggressors who are better with the ball in their hands. They can definitely play together, but having Ex with the 2nd unit makes good sense. I like Rubio, his D is strong & he's just a good teammate by all accounts. It's also too early to write him off, but if he doesn't get things straightened out my mid season, I would definitely like to see him shopped for a wing shooter who can compliment DM & Ex's drive and kick ability. (Or maybe Allen turns into that guy and they use Ricky to get a shooting PF-type?)

MalonesElbows · Post #23 » by **MalonesElbows** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:41 am

He's still a huge work in progress. 3 point shot unreliable. No mid range game whatsoever. Most teams wouldn't have resigned him for 11m a year, but Utah knows their free agency choices are few and far between.

cojayar · Post #24 » by **cojayar** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:53 pm

He is not a PG. And never will be. He can just attack (very well) the rim. No tempo, no control, no shot, no quality PnR, no good defense. Sorry but he will never be a starter except when the main PG is injured.

Winglish · Post #25 » by **Winglish** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:17 pm

anish23 wrote:Big fan of Ricky here but do you guys think we should give Exum a go at starting ?

No no no no no.

A million times no!

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Winglish · Post #26 » by **Winglish** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:18 pm

erudite23 wrote:I'm bullish on Dante. I have written him off entirely at least 3 or 4 times during his rookie contract. The fact that he has come back and is contributing the way he is right now is a major testament to his competitive will and love for the game--along with just his pure natural ability.

I still see more than a glimmer of stardom there for him. He can clearly beat anyone in the league off the dribble, and he's finally starting to figure out how to finish around the rim, which as always been his biggest issue. His handle is still lacking, and he makes maddening decisions at times, but overall I can honestly say he's ahead of where I expected him to be. At the very least, he's giving us a big boost on our 2nd unit for each of the next two years. But I expect more. I think he unseats Ricky as the starter and that Rubio is either let go in FA or comes back as a 6th man/3rd guard type (not very likely).

I believe you'll see Dante average 20+ for a full season at some point in his career and perhaps make an All Star game or two. He's taken a long time to get where he is, but you can see all the pieces there and he's finally starting to put them together. If he ever figures it all the way out, there's definitely star potential there, even after all this time. Really unique player and career path.

I think you are out of your mind if you think Dante Exum will EVER be as good as Ricky Rubio.

Not in this lifetime.

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Winglish · Post #27 » by **Winglish** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:18 pm

cojayar wrote:He is not a PG. And never will be. He can just attack (very well) the rim. No tempo, no control, no shot, no quality PnR, no good defense. Sorry but he will never be a starter except when the main PG is injured.

Precisely.

This is spot on correct.

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babyjax13 · Post #28 » by **babyjax13** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:14 pm

Funny how responses were all positive after two very good games, and negative after two bad ones and one that was meh. I'm still liking what I'm seeing overall. He's a better player than he was and he's still young - that was the entire point of the post. I guess put it this way, he and Grayson Allen are essentially the same age. I think Dante is closer to being a consistently useful rotation player (but I like both quite a bit).

anish23 · Post #29 » by **anish23** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:08 pm

Winglish wrote:
anish23 wrote:Big fan of Ricky here but do you guys think we should give Exum a go at starting ?
No no no no no.

A million times no!

Sent from my SM-G892U using RealGM mobile app

Well, no after yesterday's game and I agree. lol.

erudite23 · Post #30 » by **erudite23** » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:48 am

Winglish wrote:I think you are out of your mind if you think Dante Exum will EVER be as good as Ricky Rubio.

Not in this lifetime.

He's already visibly better than him in some games. There are nights when Ricky's confidence in his shot is so bad that he completely disappears from the game. For all of Dante's wildness and immaturity, you always know when he's on the court.

I mean I don't blame you for being so passionate. I understand where you're coming from.

But Dante has a few talents that are simply unmatched in this league. There isn't another player in the world with his combination of quickness, size and length. There are only a few guards in the NBA who can match his quicks and they are all smaller than him.

Whenever you possess not just a world class gift, but a world class combination of gifts, that gives you a chance at greatness. Dante, for all his flaws, has that.

Now he still has to becomes a real player. His total lack of an in between game right now is a real problem. He's either getting all the way to the rim or passing. Defenders don't have to worry about him pulling up. But he's still very young. He's bright, he's determined and he's willing to put in the work. Those are all very positive indicators.

He's already giving us a major advantage off the bench most nights. It's not that big of a leap from that to starter.

Maybe Ricky holds him off--which I would be totally fine with, btw--but he's going to have to play really well to do it.

KqWIN · Post #31 » by **KqWIN** » Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:23 pm

Exum needs to better at finishing his drives. He’s shooting under 50% on his layups/floaters. If he can bring that up, he’s a serious player.

anish23 · Post #32 » by **anish23** » Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:17 pm

Winglish wrote:
erudite23 wrote:I'm bullish on Dante. I have written him off entirely at least 3 or 4 times during his rookie contract. The fact that he has come back and is contributing the way he is right now is a major testament to his competitive will and love for the game--along with just his pure natural ability.

I still see more than a glimmer of stardom there for him. He can clearly beat anyone in the league off the dribble, and he's finally starting to figure out how to finish around the rim, which as always been his biggest issue. His handle is still lacking, and he makes maddening decisions at times, but overall I can honestly say he's ahead of where I expected him to be. At the very least, he's giving us a big boost on our 2nd unit for each of the next two years. But I expect more. I think he unseats Ricky as the starter and that Rubio is either let go in FA or comes back as a 6th man/3rd guard type (not very likely).

I believe you'll see Dante average 20+ for a full season at some point in his career and perhaps make an All Star game or two. He's taken a long time to get where he is, but you can see all the pieces there and he's finally starting to put them together. If he ever figures it all the way out, there's definitely star potential there, even after all this time. Really unique player and career path.
I think you are out of your mind if you think Dante Exum will EVER be as good as Ricky Rubio.

Not in this lifetime.

Sent from my SM-G892U using RealGM mobile app

Sure he may never be. Because I personally am a big fan of Rubio and really hope and wish the best for him. I'd love it if Rubio was our PG for the long haul.

I watched this interview, i think it was postgame or something I don't remember where he said, "I was rushing things early in the season because I was excited to show what I worked on during the summer" something along those lines, talking about his jumpshot. So many we start seeing consistency on his shots and most importantly his threes. If that is the case and he can lets say get us 16-19 points a game with high percent threes, then perfect.

But when you say Dante can never be a great player, that's just stupid. He is young, he is long, and he is athletic. And that shot has come along. If everything goes well, I kind of see him as a mini-Ante. And if he does fulfill his potential, Jazz will be in a MUCH better shape.

zero24gravity · Post #33 » by **zero24gravity** » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:19 pm

Winglish wrote:
cojayar wrote:He is not a PG. And never will be. He can just attack (very well) the rim. No tempo, no control, no shot, no quality PnR, no good defense. Sorry but he will never be a starter except when the main PG is injured.
Precisely.

This is spot on correct.

Sent from my SM-G892U using RealGM mobile app

It's interesting how people who watch the same player & same games (I'm assuming you both watch the majority of Jazz games) can see things so differently. I can't wrap my head around this perception of Dante. I see him as a PG through & through. Say what you will about his vision, handle, control, etc, (because those things can be viewed differently by the "eye test"), but one thing I will absolutely not agree to disagree about is saying he has "no good defense". That's just a silly, hater comment IMO.

tleikheen · Post #34 » by **tleikheen** » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:28 pm

Exum needs to better at finishing his drives. He’s shooting under 50% on his layups/floaters. If he can bring that up, he’s a serious player.

Man his blowbyes are sweet to see but then he misses and I'm yelling make those layups Dante...….What's really encouraging to see though is he's trying to throw down some vicious dunks and I think it's just a matter of time and those blown layups will start to go in a lot more …..

cojayar · Post #35 » by **cojayar** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:01 pm

erudite23 wrote:He's already giving us a major advantage off the bench most nights. It's not that big of a leap from that to starter.

You are underestimating the complexity of the game. You recognize that it is an unidimensional player. An specialist for some specific cases of a very specific usage. The only unidimensional players that are starters are big scorers. A role player with his clear limits is a good achievement. Accept it.

SoCalJazzFan · Post #36 » by **SoCalJazzFan** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:14 pm

The collision of the Exum fanboys and the Rubio fanboys is nothing, if not entertaining.

stitches · Post #37 » by **stitches** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:37 pm

SoCalJazzFan wrote:The collision of the Exum fanboys and the Rubio fanboys is nothing, if not entertaining.

I don't know how the Rubio fanboys can be so sure there is zero chance of Exum ousting him, when 5 games into the season there has already been a situation when Quin took minutes away from Rubio and gave them to Exum and Exum hasn't even played great yet. I can absolutely envision a situation where Exum takes minutes and potentially even starting spot from Rubio. It's not really that hard... just imagine Rubio playing like he did the first half of last season for about the same stretch of time and imagine Exum not being injured for the same stretch of time and playing at similar level to how he played last season when he came back. I can absolutely see Quin going with Exum...

With that said... right now Exum looks like he only has one speed and he's lacking the nuanced playmaking that Rubio has. He also has close to zero mid-range game and I have very little trust in his ball-security, so ... there are still some important things he needs to improve.

Post #38 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:16 pm

I'm a fan of both Rubio and Exum, so I bumped into the mirror, I guess. Ouch.

I can see Snyder going with Exum over Rubio on a situational basis if Rubio struggles in some games for whatever reason, but I can't see Snyder benching Rubio for Exum--usually the Jazz don't do that to prominent players in contract years. If Snyder, for whatever unlikely to happen reason, turns the page on Rubio (again, I can't see it happening, but I'm just going with it), the most I can see him do is giving Rubio the Favors treatment, where he starts the games and subs out relatively shortly after.

zero24gravity · Post #39 » by **zero24gravity** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:30 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:I'm a fan of both Rubio and Exum, so I bumped into the mirror, I guess. Ouch.

I can see Snyder going with Exum over Rubio on a situational basis if Rubio struggles in some games for whatever reason, but I can't see Snyder benching Rubio for Exum--usually the Jazz don't do that to prominent players in contract years. If Snyder, for whatever unlikely to happen reason, turns the page on Rubio (again, I can't see it happening, but I'm just going with it), the most I can see him do is giving Rubio the Favors treatment, where he starts the games and subs out relatively shortly after.

Agree with this. Can't imagine totally removing Rubio from the starting line-up, but minute distribution could easily be tweaked for more like 50/50 (and even have Allen eat into Ricky's time), if Rubio were to struggle mightily, long term.

tleikheen · Post #40 » by **tleikheen** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:09 am

There has been article after article talking about the pace of the NBA game right now …..this to me is why Exum looks better as he is FINALLY getting to go coast to coast if he see's opportunity. His speed is being unleashed whereas Rubio got exposed by Fox (Sacramento )as having trouble with that speed.

At best , Exum has an opening if his play is good to get more minutes .