Putting Dante Exum into perspective

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Re: Putting Dante Exum into perspective 

Post#81 » by stitches » Sat Dec 8, 2018 6:47 am

GimmeDat wrote:One thing I've found about Exum in the time that I have watched him is that he plays a bit too much of a finesse game for someone who is so big for his position. Almost a bit soft offensively. He's also either 0 or 100 speed wise, and always straight line.. I just watched some highlights of SGA, a PG with similar dimensions, and he's not nearly as athletic, but he probes the defense with more patience and a more versatile, live dribble. It also helps that he is physical getting deep position against other guards, and will use his body to bully his way in to shots in that mid-range or high key area. It also obviously helps that he has a more functional jumpshot than Exum that he can pull in to.

In comparison, Exum either has a straight line to drive or he doesn't. And he often does, because he's fast AF, but I think this lack of nuance limits his ability to be a 'true PG', despite being a decent passer. And that's okay, but if you can't be a floor general type point can run an offense, then you need to be able to play off the ball. He has the size and athleticism to do so, but he doesn't have the off-ball game right now. I don't think his form is horrible, it's stiff and lacks a lot of functionality, but if he's set it looks fine, and it sounds like he shoots it well in practice, and he also shoots FT's relatively well (around 80%). So I don't get why he misses so many spot up looks even, I guess it just must not take much to through him off his form. Maybe speeding it up a little, making it a little bit more one motion, even if it remains quite a set shot, would help in this regard. And again, when it comes to off-ball play, he could be a great off-ball cutter if he was more active and finished with physicality.

I believe his issues with finishing are a combination of him always going so fast to the rim, with him always going for finesse finishes with one hand. He's always trying to beat his opponent to the rim, and as a 6'6 PG, that shouldn't have to be the case. He needs to have patience, be more physical inside, and not always use one hand! Even if he uses his body to get deep position and pushes up a little floater over them. Obviously a true in-between game would be even better, but I think that's an even bigger reach for him to develop.

Also needs to work on having a strong dribble at all times, idk if he's just being casual/loose with it, or maybe his handle just can't keep up with the speed he plays at, but sometimes he dribbles it too low for his stance and he needs to like go collect it. He's way too one hand dominant also.. he needs to mix that up and ideally develop some basic changes of direction.. doesn't need to be anything fancy, and it'll be easier once he slows his game up and uses *change* of speed more effectively.

I'm probably not telling you guys anything you don't already know, but just my 2cents. It's just a bit frustrating because the potential is still completely there, but he still plays like a raw athlete project type 3 years into his 4th season. Even still, I think he brings a lot to the table and needs freedom and opportunity to find these developments in his game.. he's never going to expand what he does out on the court unless he has that rope.


Yeah, him having practically one speed is a problem. There is indeed no nuance in his game. He either goes fast or he doesn't go and there is very little that's not straight line.

About his handles... I think it can be separated into two problems - first the handle is loose itself. He has little control over it... it just looks like he can lose the ball any time he's dribbling it... and second... the more I've been watching the more it looks to me like huge number of his turnovers are on his gather. It's not exactly part of his handle, since it's the finishing moment of him possessing the ball - either gathering it for layup or to pass it, but that's the majority of the cases when he gets stripped... it's very similar to Gobert's biggest problem with ball security... the moment when he has to catch the ball after dribbling or after a cut, he's most vulnerable to getting stripped. He just doesn't have it securely in his hands end even the slightest of contact either to him or to the ball creates turnover opportunity.

I have no idea what the solution to those problems is but I tend to think that handle and ball security is one of the things that's the hardest to correct. I don't know if purely working on it can help. It's almost an indictment on either his or the Jazz's inability to identify and/or address the most obvious of problems in his game. Just think about it - is there any PG in the league, even among the backups with such a glaring ballhandling problem. I can't think of anyone. There are PGs that make mistakes, there are PGs that make bad passes or have poor decisionmaking... this is not the main problem with Dante... it's the physical act of dribbling the ball and securing it in his hands when he goes for a layup in traffic that actually presents the biggest problem for him.
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Re: Putting Dante Exum into perspective 

Post#82 » by ForeverRDjazz » Sat Dec 8, 2018 4:18 pm

Dante goes left many times.
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Re: Putting Dante Exum into perspective 

Post#83 » by ForeverRDjazz » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:58 am

Any time Neto is getting should go to Exum. Starting to think Quin is losing this team.
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Re: Putting Dante Exum into perspective 

Post#84 » by ForeverRDjazz » Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:24 am

If i'm Exum and Quin keep me on the bench unless its garbage time? I'd be asking to be traded by alstar break. Kid needs to play or be traded.
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Re: Putting Dante Exum into perspective 

Post#85 » by BudTugly » Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:30 am

ForeverRDjazz wrote:If i'm Exum and Quin keep me on the bench unless its garbage time? I'd be asking to be traded by alstar break. Kid needs to play or be traded.



Who is gonna trade for him? He’s a shooting guard that sucks at shooting and he’s a point guard who can’t lead the floor. He’s a combo guard without combinations. Clearly the organization believes in him but to this point Dante is still just potential.
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Re: Putting Dante Exum into perspective 

Post#86 » by ForeverRDjazz » Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:43 am

BudTugly wrote:
ForeverRDjazz wrote:If i'm Exum and Quin keep me on the bench unless its garbage time? I'd be asking to be traded by alstar break. Kid needs to play or be traded.



Who is gonna trade for him? He’s a shooting guard that sucks at shooting and he’s a point guard who can’t lead the floor. He’s a combo guard without combinations. Clearly the organization believes in him but to this point Dante is still just potential.

I'm sure teams would love to take a chance on Exum. Quin isn't gonna play him? Trade him and watch the kid shine on another team.
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Re: Putting Dante Exum into perspective 

Post#87 » by BudTugly » Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:48 am

ForeverRDjazz wrote:
BudTugly wrote:
ForeverRDjazz wrote:If i'm Exum and Quin keep me on the bench unless its garbage time? I'd be asking to be traded by alstar break. Kid needs to play or be traded.



Who is gonna trade for him? He’s a shooting guard that sucks at shooting and he’s a point guard who can’t lead the floor. He’s a combo guard without combinations. Clearly the organization believes in him but to this point Dante is still just potential.

I'm sure teams would love to take a chance on Exum. Quin isn't gonna play him? Trade him and watch the kid shine on another team.


OK who? For what? Like I said I don’t think he will be moved this year but if you can find somebody who will give us a useful role player or a decent pick let’s see who they are.

I don’t think Dante has much value. He is the new Burks.
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Re: Putting Dante Exum into perspective 

Post#88 » by ForeverRDjazz » Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:57 am

BudTugly wrote:
ForeverRDjazz wrote:
BudTugly wrote:

Who is gonna trade for him? He’s a shooting guard that sucks at shooting and he’s a point guard who can’t lead the floor. He’s a combo guard without combinations. Clearly the organization believes in him but to this point Dante is still just potential.

I'm sure teams would love to take a chance on Exum. Quin isn't gonna play him? Trade him and watch the kid shine on another team.


OK who? For what? Like I said I don’t think he will be moved this year but if you can find somebody who will give us a useful role player or a decent pick let’s see who they are.

I don’t think Dante has much value. He is the new Burks.

I think Exum still have lot of value. Watching him play tonight make me wonder why he's NOT getting all of Neto's time. Neto and others got burned over and over by Dennis S. Then Exum come in and with his size and speed was able to put a stop to DS. I put as much value on players playing D as I do there shooting. Value is there. I'd have to talk with league GMS about trades to really be able to tell you who's willing to take on Exum. But I know there's teams that would love to have Exum. LOVE.
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Re: Putting Dante Exum into perspective 

Post#89 » by sipclip » Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:44 am

The problem with Exum right now is that he has stretches where he is unbelievably bad. On a team that is still trying to win games that is a nail in the coffin for his minutes. Hopefully our record gets so bad that we aren't trying to win and Quin will force feed him minutes and let him play through those horrible stretches. I'm sure the suns would jump at the chance to try to develop him since they aren't likely to care about his salary the next couple years if he doesn't pan out.

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Re: Putting Dante Exum into perspective 

Post#90 » by tleikheen » Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:33 am

The problem with Exum right now is that he has stretches where he is unbelievably bad.



But if you watch the games …..that describes everyone on the Jazz . Including Mitchell who had 6 turnovers and no assists tonight.

When Crowder is tossing up bricks ,he plays .Rubio has had awful games,plays .Ditto O'Neale,Favors Neto ,plays .One mistake from Exum yanked and in the doghouse ...that isn't coaching !! It's obvious Exum has a gear no one else has on this terribly unathletic team and the Jazz have sunk to mediocre. Jazz are NO threat with the level of pace they play at now. Exum needs to play through any mistakes or if always in Snyders doghouse as the Jazz lose ask to be traded.
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Re: Putting Dante Exum into perspective 

Post#91 » by sipclip » Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:20 am

tleikheen wrote:
The problem with Exum right now is that he has stretches where he is unbelievably bad.



But if you watch the games …..that describes everyone on the Jazz . Including Mitchell who had 6 turnovers and no assists tonight.

When Crowder is tossing up bricks ,he plays .Rubio has had awful games,plays .Ditto O'Neale,Favors Neto ,plays .One mistake from Exum yanked and in the doghouse ...that isn't coaching !! It's obvious Exum has a gear no one else has on this terribly unathletic team and the Jazz have sunk to mediocre. Jazz are NO threat with the level of pace they play at now. Exum needs to play through any mistakes or if always in Snyders doghouse as the Jazz lose ask to be traded.
I'm not disagreeing but we all know that Snyder plays favorites and Exum has never been one of those guys.

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Re: Putting Dante Exum into perspective 

Post#92 » by tleikheen » Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:47 am

I'm not disagreeing but we all know that Snyder plays favorites and Exum has never been one of those guys.



True ….I've seen the Alex Burks appreciation thread
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Re: Putting Dante Exum into perspective 

Post#93 » by mudsak » Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:16 pm

My thoughts on Exum...
1. we invested in him with a contract... he needs continued development AND has showed progress... it's irresponsible at this point that the Jazz haven't made sticking to him a priority.

2. This team has been a complete mess this season... Utilizing that time to continue to develop Exum should be a priority imo. The team as a whole has been bipolar and EVERYONE on the team has been making a TON of mistakes. Everyone on this team has their weaknesses, gaps, and areas where focus on improvement is needed.... I'm baffled that Exum isn't given more slack to make/learn from mistakes.

3. Exum's good flashes this season have been some of the most promising moments of the entire season imo. He has at times demonstrated incredible court awareness, great passing ability, and forced defenses to stay on their toes with is ability to get into the paint.

4. Neto has literally ZERO business taking a priority over Exum... Team is not highly invested in Neto. Neto's ceiling is most likely no more than a Shelvin Mack-ish type of player. Exum's ceiling is obviously miles above Neto.

This team has been mostly a disappointment as a whole this season.... let the kid play... invest heavily in his development. I'm frustrated by the lack of allowing him to play through some growing pains.
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Re: Putting Dante Exum into perspective 

Post#94 » by Crunch 99 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:15 pm

I turned off the depressing game against OKC last night before Exum came in, but Neto has generally been a better backup than Exum imo. Last night however, I agree with Tleikheen in the game thread that the quicker Exum should have been given a shot earlier to play against quick Dennis Shroder. Shroder was really hurting us.
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Re: Putting Dante Exum into perspective 

Post#95 » by zero24gravity » Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:23 pm

I'm an Exum fan, but do admit he's far from perfect.

Exum's D vs Harden in the playoffs last year might have been a big part of the reason he got the contract he did in the off season, then he was never matched up with Harden in the last Houston game. I found that really odd. Complaining over something like that in a game the Jazz actually won may seem odd, but it's been bugging me, so thought I'd share. It's interesting that a role can't seem to be found for him, even though he's the physical poster-child for "positionless basketball", when you look at his height, length & speed. I don't even know who to blame for this. I get why Quinn has kept messing with rotations, as the team needs to "find" something that works.

The Exum-mystery continues to baffle, but I think he'll find his niche & he'll be a good player. When? Where? What? ... I dunno
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Re: Putting Dante Exum into perspective 

Post#96 » by PharmD » Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:19 pm

I'm not really sure what is so 'mysterious' about Exum. He's just a guy with bad hands that can't shoot.
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Re: Putting Dante Exum into perspective 

Post#97 » by dr0welf » Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:18 am

Exum is best when running, not so much in half court offense. Trade him to allow him to succeed or have a lineup that is made to run and gun.
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Re: Putting Dante Exum into perspective 

Post#98 » by tleikheen » Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:34 am

Even though it's "garbage time" "inconsequential" don't mean anything if you listen to Locked on Jazz .....Exum has gotten 18 FT's / 56 minutes the last 4 gams including 3 minutes in one game where he got the quick hook.


DM …….. 15 FT's / 114 minutes
Faves….. 14 FT's / 97 minutes
Gobert .. 12 FT's / 84 minutes
Jingles .. 8 FT's / 103 minutes
Crowder..6 FT's / 85 minutes
Rubio ....5 FT's / 109 minutes

A big part of it is in "garbage time" Exum is not sent to the corner and handles and relentlessly attacks the rim when he has the ball.Main point is the Jazz lack anyone (including DM)who break the paint and gets FT's consistently.

Is Snyder and Exum a wrong match or is Exum a round peg in a square hole offense.


When Exum plays with DM or Ingles or Rubio he becomes a "decoy" in the corner.Ingles brings the ball up NOT Exum when they play ,Ingles needs to get his a$$ up the court and let Exum push the ball up .Ingles can still run PNR 's or set up for 3PTer's.

As long as Exum is a corner"decoy" he'll be auditioning for other teams(trade deadline) playing "garbage time".
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Re: Putting Dante Exum into perspective 

Post#99 » by Inigo Montoya » Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:00 pm

tleikheen wrote:Is Snyder and Exum a wrong match or is Exum a round peg in a square hole offense.


I think it's both.
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Re: Putting Dante Exum into perspective 

Post#100 » by KqWIN » Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:13 pm

Exum’s biggest issues right now are the inability shoot, make layups, and terrible handle. You won’t find an offense he’s good in until he improves.

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