Game 10: Toronto Raptors (9-1) @ Utah Jazz (4-5)

[Rauxcee]

The strength of the team is the mother****** team boys!!!!

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Up oh. Trouble in paradise. They're going to need a guy's night out and maybe a slumber party to really strengthen those bonds of friendship.


In all seriousness, they should be frustrated. They are under preforming in just about every aspect of the game. Crowder has been our best, and most consistent player for craps sake! Individual performances have been poor.

And I don't even know what to say about this team defensively. They still have moments where they are dialed in and in complete control on that end, but it only lasts a few possessions. I refuse to believe it's the rule changes. The Jazz could not have relied on grabbing, holding, bumping, etc last year to be successful. They should be able to play defense just as well even with the changes. Also, you'd think the changes would help them on the offensive end, but they almost look worse and maybe that's just because they can't score in any aspect right now.

[KqWIN]

I keep trying to find some indicators in the numbers, but it's mostly all bad.

We're pretty good on defense with Gobert on the floor, but in the past we've been mega-elite with him on the floor. When he's off the floor, we've been absolute trash on both ends. I don't think Favors is a good defender at any position right now. He's not a great paint defender, and he's slow as molasses on the perimeter.

The starters have been really bad, but so has the first sub (Crowder+O'Neale in for Favors+Ingles). We're getting blown out at the start of games. The main bench unit has been good and the closing unit have been good at least.

[FJS]

We have a lot of problems:
A) Rubio can't score. You see players like Conley or Lowry in the opponent team and you can only feel fustration.
b) We can't make a FT. We shot 41 FT last night, and scored 27 (66%). It's pretty poor by our side. Shot 66% @ Nuggets, 56% vs Grizzlies and 60% @ Wolves (18-30)
c) We are playing bad defense. Wolves shot 58% on us, Grizzlies 50.7, Nuggets 49.4 and Raptors 57%
D) We lack of firepower offensive. We love our players, but they aren't as good as we think. Rubio is not a top 15 PG. I'm not sure if we want to defend that Favors is better than Udoh, because he is not scoring either. Ingles is an unathletic 31 years old man, who is good to be a bench guy or 6th man, but not a starter SF in this league. Exum it's not better than Rubio. O'Neale it's a bad offensive player.. Crowder has had some good nights... But I would bury in the end of the bench in anothers.
Long season...

[wajr]

For all the defensive talk it is once again our offense that is a problem. Teams are going on huge runs against us where we simply can't score and it is leading to massive swings. Between the horrible turnovers and shooting droughts this team just looks inept for long stretches.

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Eh, I don't agree with that. The biggest difference from this year's performance from last year is that we are no longer an elite defensive team. If we were elite on defense, we'd be more or less where we were last year.

I can't quite put my finger on why we're so mediocre defensively, but one thing that hasn't been talked about is that Gobert hasn't been the force at the rim he has been in years past. I think he's actually been one of the worst rim protectors in the league by the numbers and that's what I'm seeing with eyes as well. Teams are going right after him and they're scoring with ease.

Absolutely. The problem is not that we cannot answer runs... the problem is that we give up those runs to begin with. Our offense has been at about the same relative(to the league) level it has been in the last 3-4 years(we are 15th ranked offense) and on absolute level our offense is better now than it has been in the last 3 years(small sample disclaimer as usual). At the same time our defense is about 5 to 7 points worse than it has been in the last 3 years in absolute sense and in relative sense we are now below average defense while being in the top 5 every year for the last 3 years.

It's really not(or should not be) that contentious that it's our defense that's currently lagging and not matching expectations. Our offense is where it's always been and where it will always be until we get some better offensive talent.

You may feel disappointed right now Jazz fans...but just think about how disappointed Raps fans were when they decided to break up their team and get Kawhi. Friendship with DeMar = Over. They missed out on a great opportunity to run back the same team and take advantage of continuity. Instead, they got a basketball playing robot that they clearly don't need.

We're better with Danny Green then we were with Demar. The trade was good for us even if/when Leonard leaves.

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[BarneyGumble]

Rubio is the biggest problem. This is a league of elite guard play. If you don’t have it, you don’t stand a chance. Our starting point guard shoots 32% from the field and has a low assist to turnover ratio. That’s basically a death sentence. Then you bring in $33 million Exum off the bench, and it’s pretty much a rich man’s Rubio with more speed and worse passing. This team is going nowhere fast. I’d pretty much trade any combination of any players outside of Mitchell, Ingles, and a Gobert for Butler at this point just to make the season interesting. But that would be a”non-JAzz” thing to do so it won’t happen here, like winning championships.

[sipclip]

For all the defensive talk it is once again our offense that is a problem. Teams are going on huge runs against us where we simply can't score and it is leading to massive swings. Between the horrible turnovers and shooting droughts this team just looks inept for long stretches.

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Eh, I don't agree with that. The biggest difference from this year's performance from last year is that we are no longer an elite defensive team. If we were elite on defense, we'd be more or less where we were last year.

I can't quite put my finger on why we're so mediocre defensively, but one thing that hasn't been talked about is that Gobert hasn't been the force at the rim he has been in years past. I think he's actually been one of the worst rim protectors in the league by the numbers and that's what I'm seeing with eyes as well. Teams are going right after him and they're scoring with ease.

Absolutely. The problem is not that we cannot answer runs... the problem is that we give up those runs to begin with. Our offense has been at about the same relative(to the league) level it has been in the last 3-4 years(we are 15th ranked offense) and on absolute level our offense is better now than it has been in the last 3 years(small sample disclaimer as usual). At the same time our defense is about 5 to 7 points worse than it has been in the last 3 years in absolute sense and in relative sense we are now below average defense while being in the top 5 every year for the last 3 years.

It's really not(or should not be) that contentious that it's our defense that's currently lagging and not matching expectations. Our offense is where it's always been and where it will always be until we get some better offensive talent.

The problem is absolutely that we can't answer these runs. Don't get me wrong the defense is bad but offense is what changes it into a mega run that we can't come back from. Last night in the second quarter we were up by 6 with 8 minutes left and then we were outscored 27-10 to finish the quarter. That is terrible defense but just as bad offense. You can't score 10 points in 8 minutes and stay in a game right now. Against the nuggets we were up by 9 with 1 minute left in the 3rd quarter. Then over the next 11 minutes we were outscored 9 to 37. Yes that is horrible defense but even worse offense. If you only score 9 points in 11 minutes you are going to get blown out of most games.

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[sipclip]

The other part of it is our bad offense leads directly to bad defense because teams are able to run off of our bad misses and turnovers. The offense is our biggest problem by far right now. In particularly Ingles and Rubio. Lots of bricks and lots of horrible turnovers. These guys are so careless with the basketball it is infuriating.

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[Inigo Montoya]

What's discouraging is that the Raptors were on the second game of a back to back and on their third game in four days, without Leonard, and on the road, and they pretty much owned us. The talent disparity when they are without Leonard is not that great between the two teams. This shouldn't have been a blowout (the Jazz cut the lead down in the last two minutes).

I'm assuming that the Jazz will figure it out at some point and find their groove, but as KqWIN often says, when you bring back the entire team from last season, you shouldn't encounter the same issues that plagued it at the beginning of the last season, when some players were new and needed to adjust.

[KqWIN]

Our offense is 15th in the league, which is about where it’s been for years. The defense is 16th when it’s been elite. Getting a stop is just as important as getting a bucket. Though, it’s hard to play defense when you’re throwing so many pick 6’s.

[KqWIN]

What's discouraging is that the Raptors were on the second game of a back to back and on their third game in four days, without Leonard, and on the road, and they pretty much owned us. The talent disparity when they are without Leonard is not that great between the two teams. This shouldn't have been a blowout (the Jazz cut the lead down in the last two minutes).

I'm assuming that the Jazz will figure it out at some point and find their groove, but as KqWIN often says, when you bring back the entire team from last season, you shouldn't encounter the same issues that plagued it at the beginning of the last season, when some players were new and needed to adjust.

You wouldn’t think it should be a talent difference, but t sure looked that way. Lowry and Van Vleet were hitting jumpers off the dribble with ease and getting wherever they wanted with the ball. Meanwhile, our perimeter guys are being left wide open on purpose and missing by a mile.

The big matchup wasn’t so great either. Rudy held his own, sort of, but Favors was getting annihilated by Siakam and Ibaka. It was no contest. Not only are those two way more athletic than Favs, but they’re also more skilled, active, and better shooters.

At some point, you just have to be better than the guy across from you and we weren’t. Everyone was getting owned. It’s a good story and great feeling when you have an overachieving team...but games like this remind you why it was considered overachieving in the first place.

[AK47MVP]

You may feel disappointed right now Jazz fans...but just think about how disappointed Raps fans were when they decided to break up their team and get Kawhi. Friendship with DeMar = Over. They missed out on a great opportunity to run back the same team and take advantage of continuity. Instead, they got a basketball playing robot that they clearly don't need.

That is the most out of touch post I have ever seen. Head to Raptors forum and check out " how disappointed Raps fans are"....

[stitches]

You may feel disappointed right now Jazz fans...but just think about how disappointed Raps fans were when they decided to break up their team and get Kawhi. Friendship with DeMar = Over. They missed out on a great opportunity to run back the same team and take advantage of continuity. Instead, they got a basketball playing robot that they clearly don't need.

That is the most out of touch post I have ever seen. Head to Raptors forum and check out " how disappointed Raps fans are"....

You should try procuring a sarcasm detector... it's a really useful invention.

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[KqWIN]

No sarcasm. Kawhi really is a robot.

[AK47MVP]

You should try procuring a sarcasm detector... it's a really useful invention.

Watch on YouTube

Thanks, makes sense. I couldn't not believe somebody would think there is a single unhappy Raptors fan on Earth because of that trade.

[eLo]

its already this time of the year, Snyder dont know what to do so he find out that Burks is on bench, so he could drop this 30 on 20 min on 70%, next time we gonna see him playing will be mid of February

PS Gangsta Donovan is great, wait few games like that and he will demand to trade him

[LesGrossman]

The other part of it is our bad offense leads directly to bad defense because teams are able to run off of our bad misses and turnovers. The offense is our biggest problem by far right now. In particularly Ingles and Rubio. Lots of bricks and lots of horrible turnovers. These guys are so careless with the basketball it is infuriating.

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Thats an interesting observation. No need to argue about the turnovers, those have to stop. However, when it comes to shooting, i often feel like Rubio and Ingles take shots within the offense (as do Crowder, Gobert). Favors basically gets no plays run for him, he lives off pnr and offensive rebounds. But the really painful misses to me seem to come mostly from Mitchell going 1 on 5, because there is no floor spacing set up for transition defense when he decides to move because he surprises not only the opponent but also his team mates. Otherwise theres usually a safety ready to take on the first wave but with the Spida attacks guys dont seem to know what to do - go for the rebound, cut and get open, spot up in the corner or run back?