In Defense of Ricky Rubio

[Crunch 99]

Rubio was irrelevant (in Philly game), since all offense ran through Mitchell (against the wall) until it was too late.

I didn't go back and rewatch the Philly game to verify how much Mitchell was bringing up the ball and directing the offense versus Rubio, but I was left with the same impression that Grossman had, that a lot of the time the offense was run through Mitchell. Rubio needs to be bringing the ball up the court every time and handling the ball most of the time to find his rhythm to positively impact the game.

Rubio's numbers for December are very good: 13.4 ppg on 42.3%/38% shooting with 6.2 apg, 1.3 spg, 4 rebs and 3.5 tovs. Rubio has the second highest plus minus per game for December at 5.0 behind Joe Ingles. And when Rubio is stone cold, he doesn't take a lot of shots. He finds other ways to contribute.

These December Jazz stats in the link below will slightly change after tonight's final December game against the Knicks:
https://stats.nba.com/players/traditional/?sort=PLUS_MINUS&dir=-1&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612762&Month=3

I'm glad we didn't lock him up and a big part of me wants to move on. I think he's lost a step. I know he's only 25 but he's been playing pro ball since he was fourteen - he's got a lot of miles on him. From a consistency standpoint, he feels like the weak link to me and Exum has made that quantum leap we all have been waiting for. Maybe we'll get some indication as Rubio looks to be sidelined for a couple of games.

If Exum continues to develop to eventually outplay Rubio, that would be great news, because Rubio is a darn good player. If that happens, I would still try to re-sign RR as a high quality backup along with my other off season target, Marcus Morris (if Favors doesn't significantly improve his 3 pt%).

[LesGrossman]

Rubio was irrelevant (in Philly game), since all offense ran through Mitchell (against the wall) until it was too late.

I didn't go back and watch the Philly game to verify how much Mitchell was bringing up the ball and directing the offense versus Rubio, but I was left with the same impression that Grossman had, that a lot of time the offense was put in Mitchell's hands. Rubio needs to be bringing up the ball every time and handling the ball most of the time to find his rhythm.

Rubio's average numbers for December have been very good: 13.4 ppg on 42.3%/38% shooting with 6.2 apg, 1.3 spg, 4 rebs and 3.5 tovs. Rubio has the second highest plus minus per game for December at 5.0 behind Joe Ingles. And when Rubio is stone cold, he doesn't take a lot of shots. He finds other ways to contribute.

Note: These Jazz December stats below will change after tonight's final December game against the Knicks:
https://stats.nba.com/players/traditional/?sort=PLUS_MINUS&dir=-1&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612762&Month=3

I'm glad we didn't lock him up and a big part of me wants to move on. I think he's lost a step. I know he's only 25 but he's been playing pro ball since he was fourteen - he's got a lot of miles on him. From a consistency standpoint, he feels like the weak link to me and Exum has made that quantum leap we all have been waiting for. Maybe we'll get some indication as Rubio looks to be sidelined for a couple of games.

If Exum continues to develop to eventually outplay Rubio, that would be great news, because Rubio is a good player. If that happens, I would still try to re-sign RR as a high quality backup along with my other off season target, Marcus Morris (if Favors doesn't significantly improve his 3 pt%).

Dante has been great in that he has mastered the art of the layup finally, and is mire than just a quick guy who misses all the time. Wether he outplayed Rubio I don't know, I haven't seen any real point guard playmaking from him. But I guess if after these last few games one claims that Rubio is the weak link there is little sense in continuing the discussion anyway. We not only must see different games but actually different sports.


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[stitches]

Ricky is great when his game is on point. He does every single small thing right! That's part of the appeal. The huge problem is that he does two of the most important things in modern basketball - shooting and finishing at the rim, incredibly inconsistently. And this is quite honestly the most flattering word I could muster for it. Inconsistent.

The reality is... IMO Ricky is the type of player I always fear the most - it's the type that gives you just enough good moments and stretches of games to fool you into believing in him, only to follow the good stretch with a horrendous month. And then he will explode for 25 and 10 with great D and hustle plays and reel you back in... rinse and repeat. In other words - he's the type that is never going to be good enough to help you consistently compete at the highest level but at the same time he will prevent you from seriously pursuing the right player for the position. In a weird way I kind of feel like we need to lose him and be worse at the position before we can get better. The problem is... DL wants us to be as competitive as possible and losing your starting PG when you don't have ready replacement is not a recipe for success. Ricky is better than anything else we have by a good margin IMO, and probably better than anything we can possibly get. That's why I think we will try to re-sign him in the summer.

[Inigo Montoya]

Rubio is forced to play in a system that is very dependent on his shot, which is his weakness, while not being very dependent on his playmakingm which is his strength. If we are going to keep running the same offense, which Snyder has shown he's sticking to no matter who plays and how they fit, then locking Rubio long-term when he's not a good fit would be a mistake. If the team is committed to running a certain system, they should also be committed to assembling a roster that fit the system the best. Unfortunately, the PG market is rather small this offseason, despite all the depth at that position around the league.

[KqWIN]

Greetings from Bologna! Well, from a train exiting Bologna!

I find the, “he didn’t get the ball enough” argument silly. We’ve had several PG’s come through Utah and play Quin’s system. If a PG isn’t getting enough shots or time with the ball, it’s dependent on him. Players can be as aggressive or passive as they want. This is the same as, “my favorite player wasn’t involved enough” and Quin is to blame.

Truth is, Philly was going under every PnR, daring Rubio to shoot. Often backing up 10-15 feet. He wasn’t hitting his shots, and he was not game to take the shots the defense was giving him. This often led him into dribbling into a much worse shot he had to take.

The Philly game is a perfect example as to why I say Rubio, or anyone else really, has to keep shooting and being aggressive no matter how they are playing. Chances are that if you’re open, nobody else is open. You’re not going to get a better shot so you have to take it. Rubio only shoots when he’s feeling it, and when they’re going in, he looks like an all star. We have more than enough history to know that Rubio is not a world beater as a scorer. It’s not his game and not something he’s comfortable with. But that’s they only way to be successful, even if he’s shooting poorly he has to stay aggressive. If he’s not good enough as a scorer for us to get where we need to be, then we need a new PG, but there is no way we can live with him not being a willing shooter and aggressive offensive player.

In short, I do believe Rubios aggression is an issue. But it’s not a coaching issue. That comes from the player level.

[ForeverRDjazz]

Well well well....Exum is starting tonight?

[Stern Fixer]

Rubio was irrelevant (in Philly game), since all offense ran through Mitchell (against the wall) until it was too late.

I didn't go back and rewatch the Philly game to verify how much Mitchell was bringing up the ball and directing the offense versus Rubio, but I was left with the same impression that Grossman had, that a lot of the time the offense was run through Mitchell. Rubio needs to be bringing the ball up the court every time and handling the ball most of the time to find his rhythm and to positively impact games.

Rubio's numbers for December are very good: 13.4 ppg on 42.3%/38% shooting with 6.2 apg, 1.3 spg, 4 rebs and 3.5 tovs. Rubio has the second highest plus minus per game for December at 5.0 behind Joe Ingles. And when Rubio is stone cold, he doesn't take a lot of shots. He finds other ways to contribute.

These December Jazz stats in the link below will slightly change after tonight's final December game against the Knicks:
https://stats.nba.com/players/traditional/?sort=PLUS_MINUS&dir=-1&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612762&Month=3

I'm glad we didn't lock him up and a big part of me wants to move on. I think he's lost a step. I know he's only 25 but he's been playing pro ball since he was fourteen - he's got a lot of miles on him. From a consistency standpoint, he feels like the weak link to me and Exum has made that quantum leap we all have been waiting for. Maybe we'll get some indication as Rubio looks to be sidelined for a couple of games.

If Exum continues to develop to eventually outplay Rubio, that would be great news, because Rubio is a darn good player. If that happens, I would still try to re-sign RR as a high quality backup along with my other off season target, Marcus Morris (if Favors doesn't significantly improve his 3 pt%).

Somehow I'm not sure that Rubio would accept that role. If so and he would take a reduction (I wouldn't pay him more than nine or ten) I'd be in.

[TO11]

I wish that when we talked about Rubio, more people would mention a replacement idea...because the fact is when I compare Rubio to a lot of the PG's out there and what they are getting paid...Rubio seems more and more of a good fit.

[Stern Fixer]

Ricky is great when his game is on point. He does every single small thing right! That's part of the appeal. The huge problem is that he does two of the most important things in modern basketball - shooting and finishing at the rim, incredibly inconsistently. And this is quite honestly the most flattering word I could muster for it. Inconsistent.

The reality is... IMO Ricky is the type of player I always fear the most - it's the type that gives you just enough good moments and stretches of games to fool you into believing in him, only to follow the good stretch with a horrendous month. And then he will explode for 25 and 10 with great D and hustle plays and reel you back in... rinse and repeat. In other words - he's the type that is never going to be good enough to help you consistently compete at the highest level but at the same time he will prevent you from seriously pursuing the right player for the position. In a weird way I kind of feel like we need to lose him and be worse at the position before we can get better. The problem is... DL wants us to be as competitive as possible and losing your starting PG when you don't have ready replacement is not a recipe for success. Ricky is better than anything else we have by a good margin IMO, and probably better than anything we can possibly get. That's why I think we will try to re-sign him in the summer.

Man you really summed up what I've been thinking and expressed it better than I could have. He is such a charmer, I mean who doesn't like this guy and want him to succeed. He still has a loyal following up in Minneapolis. But like you say he reels you in and then betrays you with his inconsistency. And maybe we do have to get worse before we get better, but with Exum playing with confidence now I'd be willing to take that chance. I mean I'd be willing to hand over the keys to Exum if we could just sign a Collison, a Livingston or a Tony Parker type player in relief. Actually for that type of player, I think maybe Austin Rivers represents the best value considering he probably won't demand more than five or six. (Course I guess that could go up considerably if he keeps up the good work in Houston). The flip side of that is that with Rubio in the fold, I just don't ever see Exum getting his chance to lead, regardless how many times he outperforms Rubio.

[tleikheen]

The flip side of that is that with Rubio in the fold, I just don't ever see Exum getting his chance to lead, regardless how many times he outperforms Rubio.

Snyder sees himself in Ricky Rubio, that he runs the offense like he'd run it on the court ,his alterego. He doesn't see himself as Exum, too much athleticism without the coaches mind on the court. I think Rubio needs to get hurt for Exum to get to play the PG position by default not by the quality of his performance .

I think Rubio would make a great 3rd guard with less pressure on him having to score and go back to what he does best ,at facilitating points scored. Exum is juicing up the Jazz both offensively and defensively like no one else ,all eyes are on Exum when he's playing even on TV.

[Stern Fixer]

The flip side of that is that with Rubio in the fold, I just don't ever see Exum getting his chance to lead, regardless how many times he outperforms Rubio.

Snyder sees himself in Ricky Rubio, that he runs the offense like he'd run it on the court ,his alterego. He doesn't see himself as Exum, too much athleticism without the coaches mind on the court.

I don't think it's that so much as the fact that the Jazz are a very conservative minded organization which is reflected in their coach and his on-court coaching decisions. Change is a scary thing for these folks and if I have one giant criticism of Snyder, it's that rather than reassessing and trying something new and innovative, he seems, in my eyes at least, to continue to make the same decisions time and time again, regardless how many times they backfire.

[eLo]

wow Ricki is like right now the worst shooter in the whole nba, i dont get it, ok he was never great one but he got many streaks when he knew how to shoot and now... he would not make one from 10ft even ih his life would depend from that

[sipclip]

The worst part about Rubio is he shoots this bad with some of the cleanest looks you will ever see. Give any decent shooter the same looks that Rubio gets and he shoots 60% from the field and 50% from 3.

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[LesGrossman]

Rubio has a forgettable stretch of games, shooting wise. At the same time, he single handedly has won this team multiple games right now, not even the greatest haters / critical fans can deny that. What he does, even when he isnt even able to hit the side of a barn, is 100% hustle and defense along with playmaking and clever disruption of the opponents' offense. Add to that that he is intelligent enough to stop shooting when he notices its a bad night - but he continues when he feels shots will start falling at some point. He had one game where he couldnt make a simple layup in the first, then continued to be the top scorer on very efficient shooting for that game.

At the same time, Ingles and Mitchell, whose main task is to put the ball in the basket, are complete and utter disasters. Ingles turns down open shots which may be good for his numbers and his fan base (see sip's post above - criticising Rubio for missing open looks, but giving Ingles a pass apparetnyl for turning down those same open looks), but its extremely bad for the spacing - trading great open looks for contested, late midrange shots - while Mitchell is taking more and more dumb, selfish attempts rather than moving the ball. Sadly, he also does that on a high volume, and if shots dont fall he gives up on D, too. The degree of damage he does is a magnitude of what Rubio causes with his misses, thats simple math.

So if a fan really "identifies" Rubio as our main culprit here, i beg to differ - call me a fanboy, i'll call it ignorant and hating. Be rational, look at the numbers, and look at the energy, body language and obvious desire to win. From an informed, intelligent fan, i'd expect two critical posts about Mitchell and one about Ingles for every single "trade Rubio" post.

[packforfreedom]

hey, now Thibs is gone, can you give us Ricky back?

[sipclip]

Since when do I give Ingles a pass for turning down open looks? You are seriously reaching with some of your praise for Ricky while ignoring posters criticism of other players to try and act like Ricky is the only guy getting criticized. Every poster on this board knows I criticize every player when I don't like what I'm seeing and Ingles is no exception. I criticize him all the time for passing up clean looks which turn to bad looks for other guys later in the clock. It is a big problem. I also criticize him and Rubio for some of the laziest turnovers I have ever seen. The difference between you and I is that your love affair with Rubio has you glossing over his blatant weaknesses and overstating his strengths.

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[zero24gravity]

hey, now Thibs is gone, can you give us Ricky back?

I'm open to it. Make an offer.

[Inigo Montoya]

hey, now Thibs is gone, can you give us Ricky back?

Can you give us Saric?

[Stern Fixer]

hey, now Thibs is gone, can you give us Ricky back?

Can you give us Derrick Rose back? (Course you'll have to throw in somebody to balance the salary, Gibson would be fine.)

[Sanfranko]

hey, now Thibs is gone, can you give us Ricky back?

Can you give us Derrick Rose back? (Course you'll have to throw in somebody to balance the salary, Gibson would be fine.)

Rose has NTC in his contract. So he has to agree to come to Utah. Doubt he wants to come after he was waived before and it's not like SLC appeals to a guy like Rose.

Teague is a more realistic target for Utah.

Why would Jazz want Gibson? Isn't Favors enough already?