Should we bring Rubio from the bench

anish23 · Post #1 » by **anish23** » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:56 am

Once he is healthy?

sipclip · Post #2 » by **sipclip** » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:37 pm

Rubio or Exum should still start when healthy. This team may be winning these home games but we aren't looking particularly good against some really bad teams.

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

KqWIN · Post #3 » by **KqWIN** » Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:27 pm

Not if Royce O’Neale is the other option.

Though it should be noted that the starting lineup has been dominant while the bench has been trash. That’s why some of these games feel closer than they should be.

Stern Fixer · Post #4 » by **Stern Fixer** » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:55 pm

I said no but that is misleading. I think he should either play or sit until we can trade him and his expiring deal. Better to either start him (on a short leash minutes wise) or take him out of the rotation so as to maintain some trade value. If we have to just let him walk so be it. He does some good things but he is Mr Inconsistency, and I believe the offense usually runs better without him. I think D.M. benefits from playing more minutes at the point and we really need a point guard that can penetrate (Exum and DM) and is also a scoring threat (DM particularly).

BarneyGumble · Post #5 » by **BarneyGumble** » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:39 pm

Mitchell is definitely more aggressive as a starter to begin games when Rubio is not playing IMO. I wouldnt mind exploring matchups where the team is better served having Rubio come off the bench....though there seems to be an unwritten rule that you don't shuffle out a starter once he's a starter......problem is that Rubio only plays like a starter sometimes.

TO11 · Post #6 » by **TO11** » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:49 pm

I still think Rubio is a starter...schedule was getting easy as he went down and now people think cuz we won a few games in a row against subpar teams that it is because he is out. We should start our best players and right now in this organization Rubio is the best PG.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

BarneyGumble · Post #7 » by **BarneyGumble** » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:55 pm

TO11 wrote:I still think Rubio is a starter...schedule was getting easy as he went down and now people think cuz we won a few games in a row against subpar teams that it is because he is out. We should start our best players and right now in this organization Rubio is the best PG.

That is debatable. Its possible Mitchell is our best PG. And I actually think Neto might be better than Rubio to be honest. No disrespect to Rubio...I like him. That's just my opinion.

zero24gravity · Post #8 » by **zero24gravity** » Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:18 pm

BarneyGumble wrote:
TO11 wrote:I still think Rubio is a starter...schedule was getting easy as he went down and now people think cuz we won a few games in a row against subpar teams that it is because he is out. We should start our best players and right now in this organization Rubio is the best PG.

That is debatable. Its possible Mitchell is our best PG. And I actually think Neto might be better than Rubio to be honest. No disrespect to Rubio...I like him. That's just my opinion.

Neto better? Perhaps not. But at the very least, he's more consistent & can be counted on to knock down open 3's at a reasonable rate.

If Rubio wasn't in the last year of his deal, I don't even think this debate is worth putting a lot of time & effort into (because he'd just be played as a starter, no matter what). But with his contract being up, it's very a valid conversation to have about whether or not to trade him at the deadline. If the Jazz think Mitchell or Ex are the future at PG, then getting a wing or stretch big of decent caliber for Rubio has to be a consideration. I don't, however, think he'll become a bench player.

I've said it a few times before ... the Suns would be a great fit for Ricky. He knows the coach, plus the young guys (especially Ayton) could use a vet to set them up, allowing Booker to stay away from the point. Might need to be a third team involved though.

Daddy 801 · Post #9 » by **Daddy 801** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:44 am

I think it’s a serious consideration. But the more important detail is who else is playing off the bench with Rubio? Who is his PnR man?

I would love to see Donny, Korver, Ingles, Crowder, Gobert play a bit more together so maybe that’s the starting lineup? I see that as a killer lineup with a ton of spacing.

Korver and probably Gobert could get subbed out pretty quick and then Rubio, Donny, Ingles, Crowder, Favs could play a bit. I’m not sure the exact rotation. But if Rubio can handle it, and I think he could, it could work.

anish23 · Post #10 » by **anish23** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:36 am

After the way we have been playing of late, I don't see how Quin can use the same starting lineup we had all year after Rubio comes back.

I really wish we go with

Mitchell
O'neal/Exum
Ingles
Favors
GOBERT

as our starting five.

cojayar · Post #11 » by **cojayar** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:43 pm

When people were speaking about favorable schedule ahead it was meant bad teams.

With current line up it would not reach playoffs and had zero chance on a PO series.

MeestR · Post #12 » by **MeestR** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:58 pm

I kinda like that option.

Start Exum and Mitchell together in the back court and have the vets lead the 2nd team (Rubio, Korver, Crowder).

I think this would give the Jazz a good jump at the start of games with Exum's first step and Mitchell's creativity. And then the vets could or should be able to hold their own against the other teams benches, if not take advantage of the oppositions weaknesses.

KqWIN · Post #13 » by **KqWIN** » Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:46 pm

Daddy 801 wrote:I think it’s a serious consideration. But the more important detail is who else is playing off the bench with Rubio? Who is his PnR man?

I would love to see Donny, Korver, Ingles, Crowder, Gobert play a bit more together so maybe that’s the starting lineup? I see that as a killer lineup with a ton of spacing.

Korver and probably Gobert could get subbed out pretty quick and then Rubio, Donny, Ingles, Crowder, Favs could play a bit. I’m not sure the exact rotation. But if Rubio can handle it, and I think he could, it could work.

IMO, Rubio has much more natural synergy with Favors than Gobert. Rubio has good vision, but he has poor touch on passes and doesn’t always throw them accurate. It’s not optimal to combine that with Gobert’s iffy hands when you have Favors. Favors can catch everything. Exum has better chemistry with Gobert. Hecan create more lobs because he’s a threat at the rim to score and throws more accurate lobs.

Korver is the other player who I think fits well with Rubio. He gets open on his own doesn’t need the ball. He just needs the pass at the right time, and Rubio can deliver. I think Rubio is at his best when he has the ball and the guys off the ball are threatening the defense. Korver is the only perimeter guy on roster who moves without the ball.

SoCalJazzFan · Post #14 » by **SoCalJazzFan** » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:04 pm

I don't think that Rubio will come off of the bench, if for nothing else those unwritten rules of not screwing over a starting player in a contract year and keeping team chemistry. If anything, I see a Favors situation where Rubio starts, Exum subbed in sooner than usual (or DM moved to PG) and then Rubio having more time with some bench players.

KqWIN · Post #15 » by **KqWIN** » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:37 pm

KqWIN wrote:Not if Royce O’Neale is the other option.

Maybe? Looked at some numbers and Royce is one of the best catch and shoot players on the team this year. When he simplifies his offensive game, he is a real asset. If Royce can be a solid 3&D, might be best to pair him with Mitchell.

Rubio and Exum don’t have as much natural synergy.

SoCalJazzFan · Post #16 » by **SoCalJazzFan** » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:48 pm

KqWIN wrote:Rubio and Exum don’t have as much natural synergy.

Rubio and Exum, without looking at any numbers of them playing together (if there are any), would seem to be a disastrous combo.

KqWIN · Post #17 » by **KqWIN** » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:53 pm

SoCalJazzFan wrote:
KqWIN wrote:Rubio and Exum don’t have as much natural synergy.

Rubio and Exum, without looking at any numbers of them playing together (if there are any), would seem to be a disastrous combo.

Thats's true. Doesn't make sense for them to play with each other so one of the two should start. Wonder if Royce can put his name into consideration to close games though. IMO, it should have already been an open competition between Exum and Rubio, but Rubio was getting the minutes regardless of how the game was going. Korver should be in consideration as well if the matchup allows for it.

LesGrossman · Post #18 » by **LesGrossman** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:52 am

TO11 wrote:I still think Rubio is a starter...schedule was getting easy as he went down and now people think cuz we won a few games in a row against subpar teams that it is because he is out. We should start our best players and right now in this organization Rubio is the best PG.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

This. This is one of the most recency bias ridden group i've seen tbh. A few weeks ago half of those guys wanted to tank desperately . Whom has this team beaten so convincingly without Rubio to think he is obsolete? Have you forgotten those playoffs...

KqWIN · Post #19 » by **KqWIN** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:11 am

The fit issues with Rubio and his game were talked about years before he was even a member of the Jazz, same thing goes for Mitchell. That's hardly recency bias. For Rubio, it's going to be an ongoing thing for the entirety of his career, wherever he goes. The league is going a different direction, so it's a natural talking point. These fit issues are only being magnified by playing in this system and with this roster.

It's really not any different than the Favors/Gobert discussion, except that there's very passionate an emotional support on one side of the argument.

Daddy 801 · Post #20 » by **Daddy 801** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:07 am

KqWIN wrote:
Daddy 801 wrote:I think it’s a serious consideration. But the more important detail is who else is playing off the bench with Rubio? Who is his PnR man?

I would love to see Donny, Korver, Ingles, Crowder, Gobert play a bit more together so maybe that’s the starting lineup? I see that as a killer lineup with a ton of spacing.

Korver and probably Gobert could get subbed out pretty quick and then Rubio, Donny, Ingles, Crowder, Favs could play a bit. I’m not sure the exact rotation. But if Rubio can handle it, and I think he could, it could work.

IMO, Rubio has much more natural synergy with Favors than Gobert. Rubio has good vision, but he has poor touch on passes and doesn’t always throw them accurate. It’s not optimal to combine that with Gobert’s iffy hands when you have Favors. Favors can catch everything. Exum has better chemistry with Gobert. Hecan create more lobs because he’s a threat at the rim to score and throws more accurate lobs.

Korver is the other player who I think fits well with Rubio. He gets open on his own doesn’t need the ball. He just needs the pass at the right time, and Rubio can deliver. I think Rubio is at his best when he has the ball and the guys off the ball are threatening the defense. Korver is the only perimeter guy on roster who moves without the ball.

Valid points. Maybe start Donny, Royce, Ingles, Crowder, and Gobert. With Rubio, Exum, Korver, and Favs being the main bench guys. That's a nine man rotation. Seems pretty good. And that should be one of the best bench units in the NBA.

Should Rubio come from the bench?