Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade

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Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade 

Post#1 » by babyjax13 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:28 am

Not sure if this is quite thread worthy, but YOLO. When we traded for Tony Bradley we traded the picks that were Josh Hart and Thomas Bryant. Currently, both players are starting caliber guys at their respective positions, while Bradley isn't really an NBA player. I think our FO is generally pretty good, but they've devalued second round picks (an area we've historically been very good at). Another player we recently let go - Tyrone Wallace - who is an NBA level rotation player. So even now we've had an above average hit rate. What I think it indicates is that late in the draft (essentially 20 and later), more shots at players is generally better than a higher pick.

Thomas Bryant: 9/6/1 on 65/33/85 shooting in 19mpg
Josh Hart: 9/4/2 on 41/35/70 shooting in 27mpg

How could would we be with these two players? Likely a bit better than we are, but not significantly. Where they'd really be valuable for us is a bit further down the road.
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Re: Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade 

Post#2 » by KqWIN » Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:23 am

This section is of the draft is a total crapshoot. For me it's not even about the names we missed out on, it's the entire idea of drafting Tony Bradley. No matter who you're selecting, it's unlikely he will make it to his second contract. But you're really going to bet on the big, slow, non-shooting big man that can't protect the rim? His one NBA skill is offensive rebounding, and that's something the Jazz actively avoid as part of their gameplan. Come on!

He was also a huge project as someone who barely got minutes in college. There's nothing wrong with taking a project, but why take a project that has an extremely low ceiling? Even if he develops, he'll be the least sought after type of player in the entire league. No one is looking for a big plodding big man that's not even a rim protector. There's really no path for him to be a successful player except as an out of date backup C. But is that even a success?

What's kind funny is that he's a full time G-League player, but we used the #1 pick in the D-League draft to select Willie Reed who plays the same position as him and is better than him. He's a complete waste of a roster spot and it was a mistake to pick up his 3rd year option.
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Re: Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade 

Post#3 » by Stern Fixer » Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:47 am

Definitely a swing and a miss by the FO. I hate watching Laker games because Josh Hart is such an integral part of that team and definitely a guy that would've helped us with his shooting, his motor and his D. Actually forgot about the other pick that turned out to be Bryant, for a total project old-school big man, when we already have one of the premier centers in the league - head-scratcher for sure. Better to do all deals with the Nets and Nuggets cause the Lakers do their homework and ain't takin any plug nickels. :noway:
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Re: Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade 

Post#4 » by stitches » Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:22 am

Yep, I don't think it's fair to compare him to the players the Lakers took with those picks simply because we don't know who we would have picked at those spots, it was the Lakers that selected those players, not us. IMO Bradley would have fallen to 30 and we would have taken him again... and we probably sell or trade that second rounder... like we always do.

Like KqWIN said though... this is not the problem - the problem was with the thought process behind that pick. I honestly have no idea what they saw in Bradley at the time. There was literally nothing appealing about his game. Slow, plodding, non-shooter, non-defender. He had some minimal skill and was good rebounding but that's very far from where the league is going now.

Both this and the Grayson Allen picks were headscratchers to me. Grayson Allen less so because Locke had been preparing us for him for 2 months prior to the draft.
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Re: Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade 

Post#5 » by Tom349 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:12 am

Willing to back the coaching staff and DL who actually get to watch him and are impressed with his development than you guys who claim all he does is rebound. Kind of laughable really you don't watch him and yet claim all he can do is rebound when he is made improvements in a number of areas and has grown since we drafted him. Im not claiming he is going to make it but there is 100% something there to work with which is why he a guaranteed contract for next season and the hate this pick gets is currently unwarranted. Especially given both Hart and Bryant would be spending more time where Bradley is now than on a NBA court if they were on the Jazz roster.
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Re: Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade 

Post#6 » by Tom349 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:31 am

For what its worth the Allan pick is far more controversial given the sample size on Allen was far greater given he spent four years at Duke and whilst capable of athletic plays has always struggled against NBA athletes. Whereas Bradley played 15 minutes a night on a championship side all the while still developing his game and growing into his body that can potentially compete against NBA athletes, which since being drafted he has improved his shooting, moves his feet much better on defense and has got taller. No reason that his shooting can't continue to get better and as he grows into his body, his feet should continue to improve on defense especially given he runs the floor quick for a 5.
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Re: Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade 

Post#7 » by KqWIN » Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:12 pm

stitches wrote:Yep, I don't think it's fair to compare him to the players the Lakers took with those picks simply because we don't know who we would have picked at those spots, it was the Lakers that selected those players, not us. IMO Bradley would have fallen to 30 and we would have taken him again... and we probably sell or trade that second rounder... like we always do.

Like KqWIN said though... this is not the problem - the problem was with the thought process behind that pick. I honestly have no idea what they saw in Bradley at the time. There was literally nothing appealing about his game. Slow, plodding, non-shooter, non-defender. He had some minimal skill and was good rebounding but that's very far from where the league is going now.

Both this and the Grayson Allen picks were headscratchers to me. Grayson Allen less so because Locke had been preparing us for him for 2 months prior to the draft.


Allen is easier to rationalize. In theory, he can be be a goodshooter and decent pick and roll player at the NBA. Everybody needs guys on the perimeter who can dribble, pass, and shoot. He may never be good enough to be in a rotation, but at least the path is there for him to be a useful piece.

It isn’t there with Bradley. Nobody needs a player like him.
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Re: Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade 

Post#8 » by Stern Fixer » Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:32 pm

Tom349 wrote:For what its worth the Allan pick is far more controversial given the sample size on Allen was far greater given he spent four years at Duke and whilst capable of athletic plays has always struggled against NBA athletes. Whereas Bradley played 15 minutes a night on a championship side all the while still developing his game and growing into his body that can potentially compete against NBA athletes, which since being drafted he has improved his shooting, moves his feet much better on defense and has got taller. No reason that his shooting can't continue to get better and as he grows into his body, his feet should continue to improve on defense especially given he runs the floor quick for a 5.


Oh I don't hate Bradley at all, but to give up two very usable picks to get him when he would have fallen to us anyway is the thing that stings. I see Bradley being a competent back-up in the years to come and see a lot to like in his game (got to admit though that Reed looks compelling as well). I do like Hart a whole lot in retrospect and can see where he could have helped us more immediately than Bradley will and that's the thing the hits me when I watch the Lakers play.

I do think you're selling Allen a little short however. He had a pretty illustrious collegiate career and I don't see any glaring deficiencies that are going to slow his progress to becoming a solid pro. He's tough and athletic, he'll get it.
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Re: Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade 

Post#9 » by JazzyPhinz » Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:24 pm

Im a Bradley hater. Get rid of him.
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Re: Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade 

Post#10 » by CAE15 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:29 pm

The story was that the spurs wanted him, so no he wouldn't of been available at pick 30. Sometimes you identify what you want and go and get it. Much like we did with Mitchell and Gobert(Which I imagine they had some negative scouting reports)Jazz had Hill(FA), Exum, Neto, Mack (FA),Burks, Hood, Ingles, Hayward(FA) having just drafted Mitchell that's 9 of players of the roster who were guards or wings. That's not even including Joe Johnson who played more small ball 4. And then Gobert and Favors with pending FAs Withey, Diaw and non guaranteed Bolomboy. The pick was going to be a big. Utah took on a young project who mind you, is just barely 21 years old to potentially be a backup to Gobert and its likely he can be one as a controlled cost. Instead of having someone who is going to shell out 20 million plus per year for a young big player. Let the development take place and see where he is next year or the year after or even 2 more after that. The kid is 21 years and 16 days old..

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Re: Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade 

Post#11 » by SoCalJazzFan » Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:29 pm

I think that someone in the front office office is blinded by stats and projections as Bradley was a stat darling, but it was very obvious he was a bad pick, which I complained about from the moment the Jazz drafted him. It is extremely unlikely that he will make it as anything other than a limited use backup, and even that is questionable with where the NBA has been headed with either stretch bigs or rim protecting bigs (he is neither, what were the Jazz thinking?!?).
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Re: Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade 

Post#12 » by babyjax13 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:36 pm

My point wasn't necessarily about specific players, it's that multiple shots late in the draft are almost always a better proposition than one slightly higher pick.
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Re: Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade 

Post#13 » by SoCalJazzFan » Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:53 pm

babyjax13 wrote:My point wasn't necessarily about specific players, it's that multiple shots late in the draft are almost always a better proposition than one slightly higher pick.

Lindsey's disdain for 2nd round picks isn't doing the Jazz any favors.
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Re: Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade 

Post#14 » by CAE15 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:27 pm

babyjax13 wrote:My point wasn't necessarily about specific players, it's that multiple shots late in the draft are almost always a better proposition than one slightly higher pick.
Outside of draft and stash which yes, I'm a big fan of and think we should do it every year. The jazz don't have the space to just add a bunch of maybe players.

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Re: Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade 

Post#15 » by Stern Fixer » Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:34 pm

CAE15 wrote:The story was that the spurs wanted him, so no he wouldn't of been available at pick 30. Sometimes you identify what you want and go and get it. Much like we did with Mitchell and Gobert(Which I imagine they had some negative scouting reports)Jazz had Hill(FA), Exum, Neto, Mack (FA),Burks, Hood, Ingles, Hayward(FA) having just drafted Mitchell that's 9 of players of the roster who were guards or wings. That's not even including Joe Johnson who played more small ball 4. And then Gobert and Favors with pending FAs Withey, Diaw and non guaranteed Bolomboy. The pick was going to be a big. Utah took on a young project who mind you, is just barely 21 years old to potentially be a backup to Gobert and its likely he can be one as a controlled cost. Instead of having someone who is going to shell out 20 million plus per year for a young big player. Let the development take place and see where he is next year or the year after or even 2 more after that. The kid is 21 years and 16 days old..

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I appreciate the context and I can actually see your point with all the guards and wings, but still, we had Gobert and we had Faves. And nobody's going to convince me that Faves isn't the best backup center in the league. But you're right in that it was before we picked up Udoh for our third string spot. But we had to have known that he was going to be a long term project. And if that is indeed the case then maybe we're right on schedule.

How many times did we question Exum's development and now he's a viable NBA player that many teams would like to have. I see no reason why Bradley won't step in as our 3rd string next season. I think he's got better hands than Udoh and he's a big body. It looks like he's been working on his 3pt shot (G League stats) and his stats aren't terrible all around. 1.6 blks per 36 so it's not like he plays zero D - plus the big body. (Actually I thought he was one of the better big men in Summer League last year.) Wish I could understand why his FT% went from .814 last season to .412 this though. :noway:
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Re: Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade 

Post#16 » by SoCalJazzFan » Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:39 pm

CAE15 wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:My point wasn't necessarily about specific players, it's that multiple shots late in the draft are almost always a better proposition than one slightly higher pick.
Outside of draft and stash which yes, I'm a big fan of and think we should do it every year. The jazz don't have the space to just add a bunch of maybe players.

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The beauty of 2nd round picks is that the team doesn't actually have to keep them. If they excel during camp, then offer them a roster spot, create a roster spot or offer them a 2-way contract.

I would love the Jazz to have the option to have some of these guys (a couple they did):
https://www.nba.com/magic/ranking-second-round-draft-60-20180211
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Re: Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade 

Post#17 » by zero24gravity » Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:55 pm

Don't worry, if many Jazz fans get their way, the team will be trading Favors, meaning that Bradley will become an active roster player, as only he & Udoh will be viable centers behind Rudy. I can see it now, Rudy or Epeh goes down & Bradley becomes a 20MPG player. FUN!

I can see why the Jazz drafted him in hopes of developing him. He seemed to have some skills, but in the limited time I've seen him, he simply isn't a player in "today's NBA". It was a swing and a miss by the Jazz FO, but at least they took a swing.

Look at it this way, it was a better pick that A.Tomic, who most Jazz fans sat around waiting on for years, but never even wanted to play for the Jazz (or in the NBA). At least Bradley is a semi-skilled warm body for the Stars & for Jazz practices.
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Re: Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade 

Post#18 » by sipclip » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:03 pm

The stupid thing about the entire trade is that it most likely wasn't even needed to get Bradley. The Lakers would have taken Hart at 28 anyways and I think the spurs would have taken White at 29. If the spurs did take Bradley then the jazz would still have their choice of a couple bigs in Bolden and Bell that fit the modern nba so much. Bolden is finally getting minutes for the Sixers and looks pretty good while Bell looked good last year and I can't help but feel like the warriors are tanking his value this year so that they can afford to resign him in the offseason. It would have been pretty amazing to come out of that draft with Bolden or Bell at 30 and a guy like Dillon Brooks or Dotson at 42. Instead we have Bradley who doesn't look like an nba player. He is still young though so hopefully he proves us all wrong.

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Re: Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade 

Post#19 » by babyjax13 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:24 pm

sipclip wrote:The stupid thing about the entire trade is that it most likely wasn't even needed to get Bradley. The Lakers would have taken Hart at 28 anyways and I think the spurs would have taken White at 29. If the spurs did take Bradley then the jazz would still have their choice of a couple bigs in Bolden and Bell that fit the modern nba so much. Bolden is finally getting minutes for the Sixers and looks pretty good while Bell looked good last year and I can't help but feel like the warriors are tanking his value this year so that they can afford to resign him in the offseason. It would have been pretty amazing to come out of that draft with Bolden or Bell at 30 and a guy like Dillon Brooks or Dotson at 42. Instead we have Bradley who doesn't look like an nba player. He is still young though so hopefully he proves us all wrong.

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Spurs were going to take Bradley, apparently.
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Re: Revisiting the Tony Bradley trade 

Post#20 » by sipclip » Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:31 pm

That is the so called justification but I highly doubt the spurs let anyone know besides there core group of they were taking Bradley. I think that is more likely the jazz leaking that to justify moving up. In the end we will never know though and the spurs couldn't be happier with Derrick White.

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