Re: Game 3: Utah Jazz (0-2) Vs. Houston Rockets (2-0)

[TO11]

Exum stopped us getting Conley

Meh. I think the asking price was ridiculous. No way should the Jazz have traded a first, Rubio, Favors, and Exum for Conley. Either Favors or Exum, not both. Glad they said no.

Conley wouldn't have changed the outcome of this series other than Jazz winning 1 game instead of none.

The deal was Rubio, Exum, and a 1st. It couldn't have been Rubio+Exum+Favors+1st. The money didn't work.

Wasn't it 2 first round picks tho?

[Wolverine]

Exum stopped us getting Conley

Meh. I think the asking price was ridiculous. No way should the Jazz have traded a first, Rubio, Favors, and Exum for Conley. Either Favors or Exum, not both. Glad they said no.

Conley wouldn't have changed the outcome of this series other than Jazz winning 1 game instead of none.

I’m sure Conley would have hit at least one corner three. Different game then

The deal was Rubio, Exum, and a 1st. It couldn't have been Rubio+Exum+Favors+1st. The money didn't work.

[stitches]

We also had our star player on offense shoot 4-20 after quarter time which regardless of the talent around him isn't good enough. Thats not a criticism of Mitchell but rather points to his inexperience and over time that will correct itself but also exactly why we don't need make any major roster changes and let things play out. Look at Lillard who only just now seems to be figuring out his game in playoffs and that with less talent around him than he has ever had before.

As for the team itself, it is only in its second year and has plenty of internal improvement to come, that coupled with smart additions in place of Thabo/Ekpe will lead to major improvements. Another star player would be great but the scope of this team isn't defined by who we get in, its defined by how much Gobert can improve his offense and how much Mitchell can improve his off the dribble pull up shooting.

Small additions don't lead to major improvements. We have to get this into our heads. Role players very rarely if ever change teams. I said it when we picked up Korver... if you expect players like him to massively improve your team you are in for a rude awakening...

This team is capped by how good our star players get(Mitchell and Gobert right now) AND by how many star players we get. Role players are nice and useful when you have the game changers directing your course as a team. With that said, what kind of improvements do you expect from Gobert offensively? He's 27... he will tweak a thing or two here or there, but he won't become a different player offensively. He is what he is... high efficiency rim roller/offensive rebounder. He's already at the limits of how good he can possibly be at this role. Unless you want him to start shooting 3s or posting up, IMO you can only expect marginal improvements from Gobert if not him actually declining because he's already at the top of most categories he gets his offensive output from.

Mitchell is a completely different story though... He has a ton of room for improvement and he can indeed take multiple major steps forward if he applies himself.

Would you rather wait 12-18 months and get the best possible player in who could definitely take you to the next level or be impatient and get whoever you can now and waste the cap space we have whilst Mitchell is on his rookie contract?

I'm on the record that we need to get high impact free agent in the next couple of free agency windows while Mitchell is still cheap. If we cannot get an impact player I do NOT want us to get tied to long-term mediocrity that will prevent us from pursuing high end player in 2020. This is our window to make major improvement on the roster. The problem is that you are acting like it's a certainty that we will be able to get that best possible player in 12-18 months.

So here... lets ask the question now... who is the absolute worst player on the free agency market or via trade(Conley?) that will make you not want to prolong the wait? What is the list of players that you consider worth it this summer?

In general... my plan would be - either get high end FA for long term, or short-term mediocre improvements(1 year contracts) that won't hinder you in 2020.

[LesGrossman]

Meh. I think the asking price was ridiculous. No way should the Jazz have traded a first, Rubio, Favors, and Exum for Conley. Either Favors or Exum, not both. Glad they said no.

Conley wouldn't have changed the outcome of this series other than Jazz winning 1 game instead of none.

I’m sure Conley would have hit at least one corner three. Different game then

The deal was Rubio, Exum, and a 1st. It couldn't have been Rubio+Exum+Favors+1st. The money didn't work.

Thats some serious math there. BTW Rubio hit one corner three i think. But i'm sure there'll be a way to blame him for this loss

[KqWIN]

Meh. I think the asking price was ridiculous. No way should the Jazz have traded a first, Rubio, Favors, and Exum for Conley. Either Favors or Exum, not both. Glad they said no.

Conley wouldn't have changed the outcome of this series other than Jazz winning 1 game instead of none.

The deal was Rubio, Exum, and a 1st. It couldn't have been Rubio+Exum+Favors+1st. The money didn't work.

Wasn't it 2 first round picks tho?

From what I remember, it came down to one 1st, Exum, and Rubio. The Jazz didn't want to give up Exum or a second 1st. Who know what the actual deal was, but the reporting made it seem like that is how it went.

[eLo]

We're simply not talented enough. That's it. Mitchell and Gobert are future perennial all-stars, but we lack the personnel to surround them.

This is Dennis Lindsey's summer. He's got the most to prove.

You are 100% right with Lindsey, as he destroed mediocre team to build similar one. But but with this first sentence you are missing a point, like unfortunately most JazzFans. Its not about build around those two, who where exposed in this series as much as it is possible, but adding super star and 1 option like Kemba or Kyrie. Gob and Michell as leaders won't change any thing, first is playing relatively poor in another play offs, second is one of less effective player in whole nba, hard to expect those two even with best set of role players will change anything, and will made out of this team a contender.

[Tom349]

We also had our star player on offense shoot 4-20 after quarter time which regardless of the talent around him isn't good enough. Thats not a criticism of Mitchell but rather points to his inexperience and over time that will correct itself but also exactly why we don't need make any major roster changes and let things play out. Look at Lillard who only just now seems to be figuring out his game in playoffs and that with less talent around him than he has ever had before.

As for the team itself, it is only in its second year and has plenty of internal improvement to come, that coupled with smart additions in place of Thabo/Ekpe will lead to major improvements. Another star player would be great but the scope of this team isn't defined by who we get in, its defined by how much Gobert can improve his offense and how much Mitchell can improve his off the dribble pull up shooting.

Small additions don't lead to major improvements. We have to get this into our heads. Role players very rarely if ever change teams. I said it when we picked up Korver... if you expect players like him to massively improve your team you are in for a rude awakening...

This team is capped by how good our star players get(Mitchell and Gobert right now) AND by how many star players we get. Role players are nice and useful when you have the game changers directing your course as a team. With that said, what kind of improvements do you expect from Gobert offensively? He's 27... he will tweak a thing or two here or there, but he won't become a different player offensively. He is what he is... high efficiency rim roller/offensive rebounder. He's already at the limits of how good he can possibly be at this role. Unless you want him to start shooting 3s or posting up, IMO you can only expect marginal improvements from Gobert if not him actually declining because he's already at the top of most categories he gets his offensive output from.

Mitchell is a completely different story though... He has a ton of room for improvement and he can indeed take multiple major steps forward if he applies himself.

Would you rather wait 12-18 months and get the best possible player in who could definitely take you to the next level or be impatient and get whoever you can now and waste the cap space we have whilst Mitchell is on his rookie contract?

I'm on the record that we need to get high impact free agent in the next couple of free agency windows while Mitchell is still cheap. If we cannot get an impact player I do NOT want us to get tied to long-term mediocrity that will prevent us from pursuing high end player in 2020. This is our window to make major improvement on the roster. The problem is that you are acting like it's a certainty that we will be able to get that best possible player in 12-18 months.

So here... lets ask the question now... who is the absolute worst player on the free agency market or via trade(Conley?) that will make you not want to prolong the wait? What is the list of players that you consider worth it this summer?

In general... my plan would be - either get high end FA for long term, or short-term mediocre improvements(1 year contracts) that won't hinder you in 2020.

Small additions plus significant development from Mitchell and to a lesser extent Gobert certainly would lead to significant improvement within this team. Your example of Korver is terrible given we saw considerable improvement once we obtained him and whilst individually speaking he has by no means been brilliant, the added spacing he has added certainly has benefited us. If you could insert a younger version of Korver who can get his shot of with more regularity then that would be a very good addition to the team and would only make the rest of the team better especially Mitchell and Gobert. I think in this instance a role player can be just as beneficial as what a star player can be, especially within Quins system. I don't think it is as simple as saying we need another ball dominant shot maker, sure in this particular series whereby Houston will switch everything and won't be punished by going small, we do need another shot maker but against say a Golden State I don't think it matters as it is a far better match up. Which I don't think you should make roster decisions based on how you match up with one particular opponent when against another opponent you may have the upper hand.

As for Gobert I don't expect him to making great improvements but I still feel like he can stronger and convert more and 1 opportunities when a smaller guard gets switched on him like today where he had good positioning and just needed to be stronger and play through the foul. I think that is realistic improvement he can make and although he has the ability to potentially hit the odd mid range jumper I don't he could ever be a reliable enough option to use in a game of significance. All other improvements on his offensive game would come from having better spacing and ball movement which it doesn't matter if that comes from the addition of star or an effective role player.

I think Mitchell has the potential to have a similar gravitational pull that Lillard has which should he reach would make the need for another ball dominant guard/shot creator less important provided the pieces we put around him can space the floor effectively.

Im not acting like its a certainty that we will be able to get the best possible player in 12-18 months time but should we not be able to get a big name free agent this off season or even next season at least we can end up wasting our cap (overpaying someone) knowing we tried to get the best player possible. I would rather overpay knowing we had done that instead of doing it now on someone like Harris and potentially missing out on a genuine star next season.

Should we not get anyone in free agency I would look to get a declining star whos contract runs out at the end of next season without giving up any of Mitchell, Ingles, Favors or Gobert. I would be asking Memphis what the asking price for Conley is and should they be asking for less than originally proposed I would possibly look to strike a deal with them. I would also suss out how eager Toronto are to get rid of Lowry and potentially look to get him on the cheap although his play this year has me very concerned. Outside of bigger names on the market I would be looking at players who are underperforming at their current club but could be much more suited to Quins system. Someone like Saric could be someone who falls into this category and could come with little asking price, I would also look at guys who are RFA at the end of next season and seeing whether they could be worth the risk of potentially being overpaid should they not improve but could also be on the cusp of breaking out. Someone like Caris Levert kind of fits this description of being someone Brooklyn might not want to pay with Russell and Dinwiddee on the books already.

[KqWIN]

The Jazz have generated the most wide open 3's in the playoffs per game, they are making 18.8% of them.

[sipclip]

The Jazz have generated the most wide open 3's in the playoffs per game, they are making 18.8% of them.

There is a difference between generating wide open 3's and being given wide open 3's. In this case it is the latter.

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

[stitches]

The Jazz have generated the most wide open 3's in the playoffs per game, they are making 18.8% of them.

There is a difference between generating wide open 3's and being given wide open 3's. In this case it is the latter.

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

It is NOT. They give wide open 3s to good shooters. Almost all of our best 3p shooters are getting MORE wide open looks in this series than they did during the regular season. Just all of them are unable to hit them all of a sudden.

[Inigo Montoya]

I just noticed that Mitchell ended up missing more shots than Harden...

[KqWIN]

The Jazz have generated the most wide open 3's in the playoffs per game, they are making 18.8% of them.

There is a difference between generating wide open 3's and being given wide open 3's. In this case it is the latter.

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

It is NOT. They give wide open 3s to good shooters. Almost all of our best 3p shooters are getting MORE wide open looks in this series than they did during the regular season. Just all of them are unable to hit them all of a sudden.

This is true

[Crunch 99]

Yes, I thought it was an enjoyable game --- well at least compared to the first two games. We looked better on defense with Gobert getting the seven blocks. We generated a lot of good open looks on offense for threes, but just couldn't sink them. Ingles is only at 23.5% for the series on threes now. Last postseason he knocked threes down at 45.5%

[Crunch 99]

Last post season we hit threes at 35.7% against Houston and 35.9% overall. We were ranked number eight out of sixteen playoff teams on three point shooting percentage. This post season, despite getting lots of good looks, we are are only knocking threes down at 25.5% and are ranked number sixteen.

[tleikheen]

Last post season we hit threes at 35.7% against Houston and 35.9% overall. We were ranked number eight out of sixteen playoff teams on three point shooting percentage. This post season, despite getting lots of good looks, we are are only knocking threes down at 25.5% and are ranked number sixteen.

Since training camp this was Snyder's spiel to the fanz that the Jazz were going to be a 3pt shooting team surrounding Gobert and DM.I think we can call that a failure ….. and no team is copying the Jazz style as almost team is looking to get more athletic players and the Jazz look for the opposite.