2019 Utah Jazz Off Season Thread

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Re: 2019 Utah Jazz Off Season Thread 

Post#741 » by Goober » Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:51 pm

I’m buying an Inglés one
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Re: 2019 Utah Jazz Off Season Thread 

Post#742 » by Goober » Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:13 pm

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I’m a closet BYU fan
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Re: 2019 Utah Jazz Off Season Thread 

Post#743 » by babyjax13 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:38 pm

It would honestly be really cool if they sold these with some prior players names/numbers on them. I'd absolutely by a throwback Kirilenko jersey
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JazzMatt13 wrote:just because I think aliens probably have to do with JFK, doesn't mean my theory that Jazz will never get Wiggins, isn't true.

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Re: 2019 Utah Jazz Off Season Thread 

Post#744 » by Goober » Mon Sep 2, 2019 1:57 pm

When the trade deadline is coming around is there any plausible way the Jazz can get Gallinari? Right now I’m not seeing a way salary wise, but I think Gallo would be a great addition here
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Re: 2019 Utah Jazz Off Season Thread 

Post#745 » by stitches » Mon Sep 2, 2019 3:32 pm

Goober wrote:When the trade deadline is coming around is there any plausible way the Jazz can get Gallinari? Right now I’m not seeing a way salary wise, but I think Gallo would be a great addition here

Bogdanovic for Gallo
Exum+Ingles for Gallo.
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Re: 2019 Utah Jazz Off Season Thread 

Post#746 » by babyjax13 » Mon Sep 2, 2019 4:41 pm

stitches wrote:
Goober wrote:When the trade deadline is coming around is there any plausible way the Jazz can get Gallinari? Right now I’m not seeing a way salary wise, but I think Gallo would be a great addition here

Bogdanovic for Gallo
Exum+Ingles for Gallo.


I *might* be tempted to the first, but definitely not trading Ingles for Gallo. I think what OKC will want is prospects and picks, so each one would need a third team.
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JazzMatt13 wrote:just because I think aliens probably have to do with JFK, doesn't mean my theory that Jazz will never get Wiggins, isn't true.

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Re: 2019 Utah Jazz Off Season Thread 

Post#747 » by babyjax13 » Mon Sep 2, 2019 4:42 pm

Goober wrote:When the trade deadline is coming around is there any plausible way the Jazz can get Gallinari? Right now I’m not seeing a way salary wise, but I think Gallo would be a great addition here


I agree. I don't think we'd do it just b/c we don't want to discourage people from signing here, but Dante+Davis+Niang+Goss+future pick would work salary wise. Think OKC would have better offers.
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JazzMatt13 wrote:just because I think aliens probably have to do with JFK, doesn't mean my theory that Jazz will never get Wiggins, isn't true.

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Re: 2019 Utah Jazz Off Season Thread 

Post#748 » by Goober » Mon Sep 2, 2019 5:02 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
Goober wrote:When the trade deadline is coming around is there any plausible way the Jazz can get Gallinari? Right now I’m not seeing a way salary wise, but I think Gallo would be a great addition here


I agree. I don't think we'd do it just b/c we don't want to discourage people from signing here, but Dante+Davis+Niang+Goss+future pick would work salary wise. Think OKC would have better offers.

I would love to roll with a Conley/Mitchell/Ingles/Gallo/Gobert lineup, would be absolutely deadly.

I wish there was a realistic way to get him. I don’t see us trading Ingles nor Bojan for him.
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Re: 2019 Utah Jazz Off Season Thread 

Post#749 » by babyjax13 » Mon Sep 2, 2019 7:29 pm

Utah trades: Dante Exum, 2021 GSW 2nd, 2021 UTA 2nd, 2022 UTA 2nd
Utah receives: Kelly Olynyk
Utah adds a stretchy 4 and bolsters their weakest position. I like Olynyk on this roster quite a bit, and that he's locked up for two years.

Miami trades: Kelly Olynyk
Miami receives: Marvin Williams
Miami moves Olynyk's last year, gets a similar level, but older player.

Charlotte trades: Marvin Williams
Charlotte receives: Dante Exum, 2021 GSW 2nd, 2021 UTA 2nd, 2022 UTA 2nd
Charlotte takes a shot on Dante and adds some seconds.



I think we'd be a beast of a team after this.

Rudy 33/Davis 15
Olynyk 24/Green 18/Bogdanovic 6
Bogdanovic 22/Jingles 26
Mitchell 30/Royce 18
Conley 32/Mudiay 12/Mitchell 4
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JazzMatt13 wrote:just because I think aliens probably have to do with JFK, doesn't mean my theory that Jazz will never get Wiggins, isn't true.

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Re: 2019 Utah Jazz Off Season Thread 

Post#750 » by KqWIN » Mon Sep 2, 2019 10:31 pm

Olynyk is someone I’ve like for years. He’s very underrated imo. Maybe there’s still a place for him here, but with Davis in the fold we’re sort of cutting the value Olynyk provides as 4/5.
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Re: 2019 Utah Jazz Off Season Thread 

Post#751 » by babyjax13 » Tue Sep 3, 2019 6:15 pm

KqWIN wrote:Olynyk is someone I’ve like for years. He’s very underrated imo. Maybe there’s still a place for him here, but with Davis in the fold we’re sort of cutting the value Olynyk provides as 4/5.


Honestly, I'd love Marvin back. Miami fans don't seem to care about cutting salary next year, which makes sense with who will be free agents. I question if that's the route the front office takes, though, considering that they are building around a player in his 30s.
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JazzMatt13 wrote:just because I think aliens probably have to do with JFK, doesn't mean my theory that Jazz will never get Wiggins, isn't true.

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Re: 2019 Utah Jazz Off Season Thread 

Post#752 » by KqWIN » Tue Sep 3, 2019 6:23 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
KqWIN wrote:Olynyk is someone I’ve like for years. He’s very underrated imo. Maybe there’s still a place for him here, but with Davis in the fold we’re sort of cutting the value Olynyk provides as 4/5.


Honestly, I'd love Marvin back. Miami fans don't seem to care about cutting salary next year, which makes sense with who will be free agents. I question if that's the route the front office takes, though, considering that they are building around a player in his 30s.


Marvin is a natural buyout candidate. If he happens to choose us, great, but I don't think I'd give up anything for substance for him. My Exum optimism is at an all time low with his health concerns...but we need something to really go right and Exum is one of those avenues. If Mudiay or Goss pans out that changes thing, but for the moment I'm hesitant on trading Exum at his rock bottom value.
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Re: 2019 Utah Jazz Off Season Thread 

Post#753 » by Inigo Montoya » Tue Sep 3, 2019 7:42 pm

KqWIN wrote:If Mudiay or Goss pans out that changes thing, but for the moment I'm hesitant on trading Exum at his rock bottom value.


Feels like we've been saying that every season for the past 3 years or so.
Draft Nate Wolters - FAILED
Keep Nate Wolters - FAILED
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KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.
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Re: 2019 Utah Jazz Off Season Thread 

Post#754 » by trex_8063 » Wed Sep 4, 2019 9:39 pm

Late to the party [I usually don't visit the team forums at all, actually], but just curious who everyone feels will be the principle starting line-up this year, and what the rotation/minutes might look like.

Ingles and Bogdanovic are both kinda SF's. Although I realize today's game is increasing small-ball and/or positionless, and I don't have particular concerns about how a line-up including both of them will work on offense, I feel Ingles' defensive value is best utilized on the perimeter......meaning Bogs guards the opposing PF if Jazz wish to take advantage of Ingles' defensive strengths; but I think Bogs could get abused by any physical PF's. Or maybe I'm underselling him, idk.

Anyway, thoughts on the how the rotations/minutes might look for the Jazz this year??
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Re: 2019 Utah Jazz Off Season Thread 

Post#755 » by KqWIN » Thu Sep 5, 2019 3:25 am

trex_8063 wrote:Late to the party [I usually don't visit the team forums at all, actually], but just curious who everyone feels will be the principle starting line-up this year, and what the rotation/minutes might look like.

Ingles and Bogdanovic are both kinda SF's. Although I realize today's game is increasing small-ball and/or positionless, and I don't have particular concerns about how a line-up including both of them will work on offense, I feel Ingles' defensive value is best utilized on the perimeter......meaning Bogs guards the opposing PF if Jazz wish to take advantage of Ingles' defensive strengths; but I think Bogs could get abused by any physical PF's. Or maybe I'm underselling him, idk.

Anyway, thoughts on the how the rotations/minutes might look for the Jazz this year??


It seems like Quin might be fluid depending on the matchup, but I like Royce as a starter. Bogdanovic actually makes sense as a 6th man, but given his large contract and Ingles' prior willingness to come off the bench it makes sense to start Bogey. With Conley-Mitchell-Bogey on the floor together you need the guy who can provide the most amount of value with the least amount of touches/shots. Royce is that guy.

As far as Bogey's defense, I actually think he does pretty well with when the matchup is physical. He has more strength than quickness. Maybe you have to adjust against the really big 4's...but in general I'm not too afraid of physical 4's because that means playing into Gobert's help.

The other benefit to Royce is that he's a good rebounder. With two small guards and Bogey (who doesn't rebound), that puts a ton of burden on Gobert to contest shots and get the rebound. It'd be nice to have another good rebounder.
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Re: 2019 Utah Jazz Off Season Thread 

Post#756 » by Cappy_Smurf » Thu Sep 5, 2019 4:59 am

Goober wrote:I’m a closet BYU fan


Nowadays, it must be getting really crowded in there.
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Re: 2019 Utah Jazz Off Season Thread 

Post#757 » by babyjax13 » Thu Sep 5, 2019 5:52 pm

KqWIN wrote:
trex_8063 wrote:Late to the party [I usually don't visit the team forums at all, actually], but just curious who everyone feels will be the principle starting line-up this year, and what the rotation/minutes might look like.

Ingles and Bogdanovic are both kinda SF's. Although I realize today's game is increasing small-ball and/or positionless, and I don't have particular concerns about how a line-up including both of them will work on offense, I feel Ingles' defensive value is best utilized on the perimeter......meaning Bogs guards the opposing PF if Jazz wish to take advantage of Ingles' defensive strengths; but I think Bogs could get abused by any physical PF's. Or maybe I'm underselling him, idk.

Anyway, thoughts on the how the rotations/minutes might look for the Jazz this year??


It seems like Quin might be fluid depending on the matchup, but I like Royce as a starter. Bogdanovic actually makes sense as a 6th man, but given his large contract and Ingles' prior willingness to come off the bench it makes sense to start Bogey. With Conley-Mitchell-Bogey on the floor together you need the guy who can provide the most amount of value with the least amount of touches/shots. Royce is that guy.

As far as Bogey's defense, I actually think he does pretty well with when the matchup is physical. He has more strength than quickness. Maybe you have to adjust against the really big 4's...but in general I'm not too afraid of physical 4's because that means playing into Gobert's help.

The other benefit to Royce is that he's a good rebounder. With two small guards and Bogey (who doesn't rebound), that puts a ton of burden on Gobert to contest shots and get the rebound. It'd be nice to have another good rebounder.


Even against physical 4s he doesn't have problems. Watched an IND-MIN game where he primarily guarded Taj Gibson, but they had him switching a ton...he was fine. The only player to big/physical for him was Towns.
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Re: 2019 Utah Jazz Off Season Thread 

Post#758 » by KqWIN » Thu Sep 5, 2019 9:23 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
KqWIN wrote:
trex_8063 wrote:Late to the party [I usually don't visit the team forums at all, actually], but just curious who everyone feels will be the principle starting line-up this year, and what the rotation/minutes might look like.

Ingles and Bogdanovic are both kinda SF's. Although I realize today's game is increasing small-ball and/or positionless, and I don't have particular concerns about how a line-up including both of them will work on offense, I feel Ingles' defensive value is best utilized on the perimeter......meaning Bogs guards the opposing PF if Jazz wish to take advantage of Ingles' defensive strengths; but I think Bogs could get abused by any physical PF's. Or maybe I'm underselling him, idk.

Anyway, thoughts on the how the rotations/minutes might look for the Jazz this year??


It seems like Quin might be fluid depending on the matchup, but I like Royce as a starter. Bogdanovic actually makes sense as a 6th man, but given his large contract and Ingles' prior willingness to come off the bench it makes sense to start Bogey. With Conley-Mitchell-Bogey on the floor together you need the guy who can provide the most amount of value with the least amount of touches/shots. Royce is that guy.

As far as Bogey's defense, I actually think he does pretty well with when the matchup is physical. He has more strength than quickness. Maybe you have to adjust against the really big 4's...but in general I'm not too afraid of physical 4's because that means playing into Gobert's help.

The other benefit to Royce is that he's a good rebounder. With two small guards and Bogey (who doesn't rebound), that puts a ton of burden on Gobert to contest shots and get the rebound. It'd be nice to have another good rebounder.


Even against physical 4s he doesn't have problems. Watched an IND-MIN game where he primarily guarded Taj Gibson, but they had him switching a ton...he was fine. The only player to big/physical for him was Towns.


He's very strong. That's something that stood out to me. I also think that anyone who is going to really try to pound their PF in the paint is taking the bait. There's a reason why almost nobody does that.
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Re: 2019 Utah Jazz Off Season Thread 

Post#759 » by stitches » Fri Sep 6, 2019 6:45 pm

The more I am thinking about it the more I feel like the best comparison for our off-season and what our roster ended up being is actually last year's Bucks team.

What was the Bucks team before last year - a team that didn't fit with their best player's strengths, a team that had no spacing from the 4 and 5 positions and questionable shooting from their PG position. What were Bucks' statistical projections after their off-season in which they got a new coach and put in pieces to specifically complement their best player rather than hinder him - SportLine 43.5, Pelton 45.2, 538 47.0, Andrew Johnson 46.5. Goldstein 47.2. How many wins did the Bucks get? 60!

My point is... I understand why the statistical projections are not high on the Jazz. It makes perfect sense... with one slight exception - statistical projections don't account for fit, they don't account for how putting well fitting pieces together elevates the performance not only of the complementary pieces but more importantly - of the stars that until now were being hindered by ill-fitting roster.

What are the Jazz's statistical projections for this coming year? 538 - 50, Pelton - 46.7, Goldstein 45.7...

To me this is one of the most fascinating test cases I've seen about the importance of fit on the basketball court, simply because we've actually seen what this team is capable in it's previous ill-fitting iteration... IMO there was no question about how good that team was. Its ceiling and expected outcome was pretty well defined.

Purely by statistical projections, we should not be better than we were last year. What is the importance of fit for teams? How much is fit worth? I wonder if there is a way to quantify this?
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Re: 2019 Utah Jazz Off Season Thread 

Post#760 » by KqWIN » Fri Sep 6, 2019 7:00 pm

stitches wrote:The more I am thinking about it the more I feel like the best comparison for our off-season and what our roster ended up being is actually last year's Bucks team.

What was the Bucks team before last year - a team that didn't fit with their best player's strengths, a team that had no spacing from the 4 and 5 positions and questionable shooting from their PG position. What were Bucks' statistical projections after their off-season in which they got a new coach and put in pieces to specifically complement their best player rather than hinder him - SportLine 43.5, Pelton 45.2, 538 47.0, Andrew Johnson 46.5. Goldstein 47.2. How many wins did the Bucks get? 60!

My point is... I understand why the statistical projections are not high on the Jazz. It makes perfect sense... with one slight exception - statistical projections don't account for fit, they don't account for how putting well fitting pieces together elevates the performance not only of the complementary pieces but more importantly - of the stars that until now were being hindered by ill-fitting roster.

What are the Jazz's statistical projections for this coming year? 538 - 50, Pelton - 46.7, Goldstein 45.7...

To me this is one of the most fascinating test cases I've seen about the importance of fit on the basketball court, simply because we've actually seen what this team is capable in it's previous ill-fitting iteration... IMO there was no question about how good that team was. Its ceiling and expected outcome was pretty well defined.

Purely by statistical projections, we should not be better than we were last year. What is the importance of fit for teams? How much is fit worth? I wonder if there is a way to quantify this?


Agreed. It's hard to say that the Bucks had a major talent upgrade...they just got players that fit exceptionally well and started playing basketball that made sense around their star. If there is a team like them this year, it's gotta be the Jazz.

This is actually how people should use statistical by the way. Understand what they're saying, but also why they're saying that. From there, you can add in your own analysis and form a stronger opinion.

I believe in the fit. I think we've seen this year over year in smaller samples. There is no way that Jae Crowder is a better player than Derrick Favors, for example. But we were so much better with Jae on the floor. He wasn't even good. Favs was awesome, but that's what fit will do.

I will say, however, that the projections rate our depth as significantly worse than last season because of our depth. I agree with that, our depth is worse and that can have a huge impact on RS win totals.

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