Biggest Gripes

[Stern Fixer]

No offense, but after watching Portland manhandle Denver in game two, am I wrong to wonder if Hood and Kanter wouldn't have been useful in our own series.

[vryadli]

No offense, but after watching Portland manhandle Denver in game two, am I wrong to wonder if Hood and Kanter wouldn't have been useful in our own series.

Most likely they would not be anywhere close to that level. Kanter just didn't like to play in Utah and for Hood trade was like wake-up call to work more seriously.

But Millsap, even being "manhandled ", that would be just what Jazz need.

[Stern Fixer]

No offense, but after watching Portland manhandle Denver in game two, am I wrong to wonder if Hood and Kanter wouldn't have been useful in our own series.

Most likely they would not be anywhere close to that level. Kanter just didn't like to play in Utah and for Hood trade was like wake-up call to work more seriously.

But Millsap, even being "manhandled ", that would be just what Jazz need.

No, we never should have let Sap go, that much is certain. I forget the exact circumstances of that one, but it seems to me we just cheaped out when it was time to give him his raise.

Watched George Hill light up Boston tonight - that may be the biggest fish that got away outside of Hayward. Now if somebody could just tell me why our alumni seem to improve and get healthy (in Hill's case) the minute they put on another uniform.

[Inigo Montoya]

Hill had a good game, but ever since he left the Jazz he's been awful. If anyone got away, it was the Jazz.

[stitches]

Kanter earned 1st round pick and a second round pick + a max contract when playing for the Jazz and has earned getting traded for negative value several times and bought out since. Lets not act like Kanter's career has been rosy since he left the Jazz.

Same with Hill and Hood. Hood had his best years with the Jazz and I still like him and wouldn't mind him coming back, but lets not act like he wasn't on the bench for 20 win Cleveland until 3 months ago.

Those are good players, especially offensively. Noone should be surprised that they can have good games. If it's anyone who should know how amazing Hood looks when he's hot, it should be Jazz fans. The problem with Hood is not when he's riding the high wave...

Hill had his career year with the Jazz too. He hasn't come even close to that level since.

[tleikheen]

Portland values players who have offensive games staying with the where the league has gone .Jazz are trying to get 12 defensive players and go the opposite direction when in reality all they need is Rudy Gobert who can cover everybody else's defensive deficiencies by himself.
I didn't care one ounce of care that the Jazz held the Rockets 6 points under their season average as they still got their butts kicked and looked overwhelmed in the playoffs with their defense approach to this season. Jazz looked the same as the last 2 playoff seasons ,slower more unathletic and the façade of them as an elite team crashing down in playoff time.
Jazz need scoring to compete with the elite teams. If Gobert is the best defender in the league he doesn't need to be surrounded by defense 1st players. He needs athletes while he 's still athletic himself. Snyder is going to waste the best years of Goberts career.

[LesGrossman]

Portland values players who have offensive games staying with the where the league has gone .Jazz are trying to get 12 defensive players and go the opposite direction when in reality all they need is Rudy Gobert who can cover everybody else's defensive deficiencies by himself.
I didn't care one ounce of care that the Jazz held the Rockets 6 points under their season average as they still got their butts kicked and looked overwhelmed in the playoffs with their defense approach to this season. Jazz looked the same as the last 2 playoff seasons ,slower more unathletic and the façade of them as an elite team crashing down in playoff time.
Jazz need scoring to compete with the elite teams. If Gobert is the best defender in the league he doesn't need to be surrounded by defense 1st players. He needs athletes while he 's still athletic himself. Snyder is going to waste the best years of Goberts career.

Oh, good to know the game isnt about skill, basketball IQ and defensive hustle any more. Its gotten much simpler apparently, all that matters is athleticism. BTW, who are the super athletes that made the GSW most likely to 3-peat? How can a guy like Jokic lead his team to #2 in the west, if its all about being able to jump high and run fast?

Truth is, the Jazz were right there. A bit quicker adjustment, a bit better coaching and the series could have gone very differently. A bit more luck in the last days of the regular season and the Jazz wouldnt have run into their worst matchup possible, too. Dunno what the big idea of the dramatic statement is but in reality this wasnt at all as bad (outside of games 1 and 2 (which go on Quinn).

[tleikheen]

You must have been watching a different series ,Jazz got smoked and their was never any doubt Jazz were going to lose to the Rockets. Media thoughts were the Jazz were right there as the biggest disappointment in this years playoffs. Now the Jazz are looking for offensive help in the way of more athleticism and players who can get into the paint on their own.

[LesGrossman]

You must have been watching a different series ,Jazz got smoked and their was never any doubt Jazz were going to lose to the Rockets. Media thoughts were the Jazz were right there as the biggest disappointment in this years playoffs. Now the Jazz are looking for offensive help in the way of more athleticism and players who can get into the paint on their own.

First of all its not the end of the world to lose to the rockets. They have the MVP, are clearly one of the top challengers for the title. Nonetheless, games 3-5 were all but what you say they were. Jazz “got smoked”? Well we indeed must have watched different games then.

Who do you think they are looking at now, then? You write they are looking for “more athleticism”, lets hear some examples. Maybe we are talking about the same thing there.

[PharmD]

Spend five minutes watching the Rockets play defense or any non terrible team in the league play offense. Think critically about it for another 5 and your isolation gripe will go away.

Not gonna happen. People have already decided that Mitchell hogs the ball on purpose because he's selfish and wants to iso all the time.. even though we are the team that ISOs the LEAST in the whole league... like... LITERALLY the LAST IN THE LEAGUE!

The Jazz almost have comically low number of isolations. Regular season:

Donovan: 156 possessions (0.85 ppp)
Ingles: 34
Exum: 30
Neto: 13
Rubio: 16
Crowder: 10

And that's it! The best isolation scorer is ldo Neto (1.00 ppp) and the worst is Crowder (0.60)

In the playoffs:
Donovan: 20 poss (0.75 ppp)
Rubio: 4
Ingles: 2
Royce: 1
Neto: 1

Playoff Rubio scored an elite 5 points on his 4 isolations (1.25 ppp, he got to the line thrice), while Ingles, Royce, and Neto all failed to score.

[stitches]

Spend five minutes watching the Rockets play defense or any non terrible team in the league play offense. Think critically about it for another 5 and your isolation gripe will go away.

Not gonna happen. People have already decided that Mitchell hogs the ball on purpose because he's selfish and wants to iso all the time.. even though we are the team that ISOs the LEAST in the whole league... like... LITERALLY the LAST IN THE LEAGUE!

The Jazz almost have comically low number of isolations. Regular season:

Donovan: 156 possessions (0.85 ppp)
Ingles: 34
Exum: 30
Neto: 13
Rubio: 16
Crowder: 10

And that's it! The best isolation scorer is ldo Neto (1.00 ppp) and the worst is Crowder (0.60)

In the playoffs:
Donovan: 20 poss (0.75 ppp)
Rubio: 4
Ingles: 2
Royce: 1
Neto: 1

Playoff Rubio scored an elite 5 points on his 4 isolations (1.25 ppp, he got to the line thrice), while Ingles, Royce, and Neto all failed to score.

Yep, and those numbers are kind of meaningless for the playoffs since the samples are really small.

[KqWIN]

I find the anti-iso movement a little weird in the first place. There's a lot of basketball virtue signalling going on and I don't quite understand it. Look around the league and you'll find that every good team puts the ball in the hands of their best player, or players, and has them make a play. There isn't a single team alive that is relying on smoke and mirrors to get by. Everyone is giving their best players a heavy dose of action be it in isolation, post ups, or involving them in PnR as the ball handler or roll man.

Watch one half of Jazz basketball, then watch one half of any team still playing. I think it'd be very hard to come away with the conclusion that the reason why they're still playing is because we iso too much. We lack high end offensive talent that can create and make their own shot, and we lacked the ability to make wide open jumpers when they came. First part is completely obvious when you consider who we have on our roster. The second part is frustrating. I don't think it surprises anyone that the Jazz could shoot terribly for 5 games in a row. But the extent at which they bricked shots was a new level.

You don't need numbers to see what the issue is, but the numbers reaffirm the obvious in a big way. There are weird theories being floated around, but the explanation is quite simple when you keep it basketball and logic related.

[zero24gravity]

Now if somebody could just tell me why our alumni seem to improve and get healthy (in Hill's case) the minute they put on another uniform.

Huh?

Hill has been garbage outside a few nice games here and there.
Haywood has been, well ... not the same
Hood has been the same; inconsistent, capable at helping or hurting with his shooting at any time.
Kanter still doesn't play D, he still has a big mouth, still has offensive skills & rebounds well. And he's been benched multiple times.
Burks has looked good at times, then not been able to crack the rotation at other times (sounds just like his time in UT)
Millsap did continue to get better after his time with the Jazz, but he was also very good with the Jazz.
Trey Burke was out of the league/barely playing, but has also had some bright moments
Ian Clark has a nice bench role career going, but don't think anyone is crying over losing him.
Devin Harris? Nope, didn't get better. Just getting older.
Jonas Jerebko. Sure I think he could have helped the Jazz this year, but is he better off the Jazz?
Trey Lyles. He's still a selfish one-dimensional player. He's got a bit better, but I think the Jazz are pretty happy with the guy they got for him.
Shelvin Mack – really?
C.J. Miles. Never lived up to his potential in Utah or anywhere else.
Marvin Williams. Another guy who could have helped the current Jazz some, but he didn't get any better when he left.
Who else got so much better? Withey? Maynor? Chris Johnson? E.Millsap? Gaines? Fesenko? lol

[Stern Fixer]

Kanter earned 1st round pick and a second round pick + a max contract when playing for the Jazz and has earned getting traded for negative value several times and bought out since. Lets not act like Kanter's career has been rosy since he left the Jazz.

Same with Hill and Hood. Hood had his best years with the Jazz and I still like him and wouldn't mind him coming back, but lets not act like he wasn't on the bench for 20 win Cleveland until 3 months ago.

Those are good players, especially offensively. Noone should be surprised that they can have good games. If it's anyone who should know how amazing Hood looks when he's hot, it should be Jazz fans. The problem with Hood is not when he's riding the high wave...

Hill had his career year with the Jazz too. He hasn't come even close to that level since.

Both Hill and Hood have been nothing short of spectacular in second round action IMO. A good case could be made that Hill outperformed Uncle Drew last night. With our offensive lapses, and lack of offensive options, no way they wouldn't have been a benefit to us in our series with Houston.

Hayward and Kanter were foregone conclusions IMO. Hayward heard his College coach calling his name and had visions of past glory, Kanter wasn't happy playing second fiddle to Gobert and we had a logjam with he Gobert and Favors and couldn't afford to pay all three, I get that. But, I wish we had of bit the bullet with Hill - as far as I'm concerned he's looked good everywhere he's gone, just not the right situation. Sac was rebuilding and if Lebron hadn't left, it's a cinch he'd still be plying his trade in Cleveland - I thought he played pretty well with Lebron and acquitted himself well in the playoffs.

As far as Hood, you guys are absolutely correct in saying that he was erratic and played questionable D. It's always been the potential that intrigued me with him. But we did get Crowder out of that deal, and though he's not perfect by any means, we needed a stretch and I think that trade was pretty much a wash as it stands today. But George Hill was perfect for our team and still the best mentor we could have had for Exum particularly and possibly for Mitchell as well to some extent.

[eLo]

Now if somebody could just tell me why our alumni seem to improve and get healthy (in Hill's case) the minute they put on another uniform.

Huh?

Hill has been garbage outside a few nice games here and there.
Haywood has been, well ... not the same
Hood has been the same; inconsistent, capable at helping or hurting with his shooting at any time.
Kanter still doesn't play D, he still has a big mouth, still has offensive skills & rebounds well. And he's been benched multiple times.
Burks has looked good at times, then not been able to crack the rotation at other times (sounds just like his time in UT)
Millsap did continue to get better after his time with the Jazz, but he was also very good with the Jazz.
Trey Burke was out of the league/barely playing, but has also had some bright moments
Ian Clark has a nice bench role career going, but don't think anyone is crying over losing him.
Devin Harris? Nope, didn't get better. Just getting older.
Jonas Jerebko. Sure I think he could have helped the Jazz this year, but is he better off the Jazz?
Trey Lyles. He's still a selfish one-dimensional player. He's got a bit better, but I think the Jazz are pretty happy with the guy they got for him.
Shelvin Mack – really?
C.J. Miles. Never lived up to his potential in Utah or anywhere else.
Marvin Williams. Another guy who could have helped the current Jazz some, but he didn't get any better when he left.
Who else got so much better? Withey? Maynor? Chris Johnson? E.Millsap? Gaines? Fesenko? lol

the worst decisions in present Jazz history was leting go Sap and KK, that was just horrible in every possible way, i think its obvious for every one. But about else You mentioned, like friend above mention, Hill was perfect fit for Jazz, i guess he would play on high level if he would stay here. With healthy Hayward this team would be a contender, such efficient guy next to Mitchell would be pure gold, thats why maybe its good idea to go after Jimmy Butler this summer. I totaly dont get why they let go Jonas, that was just dumb move

[mudsak]

My biggest gripe is Gobert. He is amazing, a competitor, and makes such an impact. However... he's often a liability at the same time. His complete inability to create, even off of the most basic of post moves is insanely frustrating for me to watch. I'm also beyond frustrated watching him trying to finish sometimes... Honestly... Gobert is so soft for how big, and dominant he really should be. I'd like to see him play with more authority and assert himself more.

I believe that if Gobert had the ability to create even just a little bit with confidence that it would open things up drastically for the rest of the team.

Chris Paul should NOT be able to successfully defend Gobert in the post! What is that????

[JazzUte88]

At least the Jazz lost to Houston in 5 and not swept by the Warriors in 4. That could have easily been us.

[zero24gravity]

My biggest gripe is Gobert. He is amazing, a competitor, and makes such an impact. However... he's often a liability at the same time. His complete inability to create, even off of the most basic of post moves is insanely frustrating for me to watch. I'm also beyond frustrated watching him trying to finish sometimes... Honestly... Gobert is so soft for how big, and dominant he really should be. I'd like to see him play with more authority and assert himself more.

I believe that if Gobert had the ability to create even just a little bit with confidence that it would open things up drastically for the rest of the team.

Chris Paul should NOT be able to successfully defend Gobert in the post! What is that????

While I understand your point, and I think he could work a bit on his inside game & lower body strength, I think this is EXTREMELY unfair to Rudy to call him a liability or that he doesn't play with authority.

To me, your comment shows a lack of appreciation for there being 2 sides to the court. For example; Harden is great on O, but crap on D. I'd argue that Rudy is better on D than Harden is on O, and Rudy is better on O than Harden is on D. But because the basketball community as a whole values offense so much higher, Harden is a deemed a "Superstar, while Rudy is just a boarder-line All-Star, even though his overall impact on the game is greater.

Gobert is THE elite defender in the NBA, head and shoulders above the rest. Every stat & metric proves it. His offensive impact isn't as high, but he's also extremely efficient on O. He lead the league in FG% by about 3 percentage points. He also was historic in his dunk total. If he's so timid, how does he scorch a guy like Dwight Howard's dunk record? Mitchell is the focal point of the Jazz's offense, but Rudy's dive to the basket for the "high pass" was an instrumental part of the Jazz's offense, and drove many teams crazy during the course of the season, because Gobert became awesome at it.

Asking a player who is arguably one the greatest defensive presence in NBA history to also be a good shooter, post player, etc., is a big ask, IMO. Actually, unfair. (Even Wilt, Shaq, etc. had holes in their games.) Yes, it's fair to ask players to work on weaknesses, but for a guy who couldn't catch the ball or shoot a FT (among other issues) just a couple years ago, I think his improvement has already been pretty outstanding. I ask that people be appreciative of his greatness & watch as he will continue to get better.

[TNJazz]

Completely agree Zero, Gobert has made HUGE strides forward in his offensive game. While he can still get better, he is a force on defense and has laid claim to being the best there. He will prove it by winning his 2nd DPOY in a row, with several more to come. The biggest improvement he has made and where he can continue to get better is in his hand strength. He is catching the ball much better, defenders aren't as able to slap it out of his hands as often, but in my opinion, this is where he can still get better and become even more impactful on the offensive end. He sent (& shouldn't) work to become an outside shooter. Maybe a few more midrange shots wouldn't hurt, but that isn't necessary and the team isn't looking to take those, as is evident in them working on Favors taking 3's. Rudy will be even more of a threat on offense next season as he has the drive to continually improve. Improve hand strength and more of those lobs and close to the rim shots he gets will go down!

He is the heart of this team and the true leader. Ingles and DM are close behind, but as Rudy goes, so go the Jazz.

[ForeverRDjazz]

At least the Jazz lost to Houston in 5 and not swept by the Warriors in 4. That could have easily been us.

No.....I'd much rather played GSW over Rockets. We match up much better.