Shams: Jazz trade for Conley...

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Re: Shams: Jazz trade for Conley... 

Post#181 » by Luigi » Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:19 am

Stern Fixer wrote:HOW TO SCREW UP A WET DREAM: Hang out with the "HATERS" at RealGM.com


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It should be a fun season.
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Re: Shams: Jazz trade for Conley... 

Post#182 » by Stern Fixer » Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:21 am

^LOL, that's epic Luigi, thx for that. :nod:
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Re: Shams: Jazz trade for Conley... 

Post#183 » by KqWIN » Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:44 am

Luigi wrote:Fun fact: Conley is left handed.

Not a bad thing to have a pair of guards who can create with strengths on each side. Conley has a strong right hand, too. But if he initiates from the weak side, that gives the offense another angle.


Small detail that matters more than you would think. The whole design of our offense is spread the floor and attack in PnR from different angles. We typically set this up with the ball handler going to the middle, big running towards the rim, and shooter in the corner. Obviously it makes it easier for the ball handler to score going to his strong hand, but it also makes it easier for him to hit the roll man or pass to the corner for an open 3.

Some people like to **** on Quin's offense, but it's not an accident that our guys are always in perfect position and attacking from their best angle. This stuff matters. It's how Ingles-Favors PnR became an unstoppable weapon. I also think it's the reason why Hood was able to find so many more shots when he played for UTA versus anywhere else. Nobody is setting Hood's left hand like Quin did.

Joe was the only lefty we had. At times, it seemed like Ingles was getting way too involved in PnR, but it's because he's the only one who could attack from the right side with a strong left handed dribble. With Conley, we now have two of the top pick and roll ball handlers in the league and they'll attack from opposite sides of court. Don't worry about Joe though...he'll run less PnR, but get back to being in the corner where he is elite.
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Re: Shams: Jazz trade for Conley... 

Post#184 » by Luigi » Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:50 am

KqWIN wrote:
Luigi wrote:Fun fact: Conley is left handed.

Not a bad thing to have a pair of guards who can create with strengths on each side. Conley has a strong right hand, too. But if he initiates from the weak side, that gives the offense another angle.


Small detail that matters more than you would think. The whole design of our offense is spread the floor and attack in PnR from different angles. We typically set this up with the ball handler going to the middle, big running towards the rim, and shooter in the corner. Obviously it makes it easier for the ball handler to score going to his strong hand, but it also makes it easier for him to hit the roll man or pass to the corner for an open 3.

Some people like to **** on Quin's offense, but it's not an accident that our guys are always in perfect position and attacking from their best angle. This stuff matters. It's how Ingles-Favors PnR became an unstoppable weapon. I also think it's the reason why Hood was able to find so many more shots when he played for UTA versus anywhere else. Nobody is setting Hood's left hand like Quin did.

Joe was the only lefty we had. At times, it seemed like Ingles was getting way too involved in PnR, but it's because he's the only one who could attack from the right side with a strong left handed dribble. With Conley, we now have two of the top pick and roll ball handlers in the league and they'll attack from opposite sides of court. Don't worry about Joe though...he'll run less PnR, but get back to being in the corner where he is elite.


Yes, I'm really hoping for a return of the 2017 Joe 3 ball.
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Re: Shams: Jazz trade for Conley... 

Post#185 » by zero24gravity » Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:52 am

sipclip wrote: Conley was good but he has never been great and at 32 look for the decline to begin soon.

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Perhaps a decline, but he had, arguably, his best season as a pro + he stayed healthy last season. His highest scoring average & more FTA that any other year of his career in 2018-19. Those aren't typically things that happen as you "slow down". Plus, the guy doesn't turn the ball over (under 2 TO's a game), which is awesome!

He's not without flaw, but let's be honest ..... Conley is head and shoulders above any PG the Jazz have had since the retirement of Johnny-Awesome.
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Re: Shams: Jazz trade for Conley... 

Post#186 » by Luigi » Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:56 am

Let's hope he teaches Mitchell everything there is to know about staying with a small market, defense first team for a good long time.
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Re: Shams: Jazz trade for Conley... 

Post#187 » by babyjax13 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:42 am

zero24gravity wrote:
sipclip wrote: Conley was good but he has never been great and at 32 look for the decline to begin soon.

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Perhaps a decline, but he had, arguably, his best season as a pro + he stayed healthy last season. His highest scoring average & more FTA that any other year of his career in 2018-19. Those aren't typically things that happen as you "slow down". Plus, the guy doesn't turn the ball over (under 2 TO's a game), which is awesome!

He's not without flaw, but let's be honest ..... Conley is head and shoulders above any PG the Jazz have had since the retirement of Johnny-Awesome.


Ahemmmm Deron Williams says hi .....
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Re: Shams: Jazz trade for Conley... 

Post#188 » by Luigi » Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:48 am

babyjax13 wrote:
zero24gravity wrote:
sipclip wrote: Conley was good but he has never been great and at 32 look for the decline to begin soon.

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app



Perhaps a decline, but he had, arguably, his best season as a pro + he stayed healthy last season. His highest scoring average & more FTA that any other year of his career in 2018-19. Those aren't typically things that happen as you "slow down". Plus, the guy doesn't turn the ball over (under 2 TO's a game), which is awesome!

He's not without flaw, but let's be honest ..... Conley is head and shoulders above any PG the Jazz have had since the retirement of Johnny-Awesome.


Ahemmmm Deron Williams says hi .....


But is he the best 3rd player we've had since Memo/AK? Conley's probably better. Best 3rd player since Hornacek?
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Re: Shams: Jazz trade for Conley... 

Post#189 » by babyjax13 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:51 am

Luigi wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
zero24gravity wrote:

Perhaps a decline, but he had, arguably, his best season as a pro + he stayed healthy last season. His highest scoring average & more FTA that any other year of his career in 2018-19. Those aren't typically things that happen as you "slow down". Plus, the guy doesn't turn the ball over (under 2 TO's a game), which is awesome!

He's not without flaw, but let's be honest ..... Conley is head and shoulders above any PG the Jazz have had since the retirement of Johnny-Awesome.


Ahemmmm Deron Williams says hi .....


But is he the best 3rd player we've had since Memo/AK? Conley's probably better. Best 3rd player since Hornacek?


I think that's fair, although in the modern NBA I bet AK would be more valuable. Pre injury AK was also a monster.
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Re: Shams: Jazz trade for Conley... 

Post#190 » by Cappy_Smurf » Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:52 am

Lmao.

Looks like the chicken littles are out in force.

Gotta love the hypocrisy of fans always yapping about the FO never taking a chance at improving the team, and then flipping their lids over a bunch of middling assets when that chance is finally taken.

I suppose we'd all be much happier if DL just waited around for Gobert to become a free agent and then pull a Haywood because the FO was afraid to ever take any risks. Yeah, riiiiiight.

Huge gamble for sure, but Utah just got a lot better and are favorites for HCA in the first round at least if they can stay healthy.

Really sucks having a much-improved team, but with any luck, Conely will get injured at some point so that we can all complain and let the world know how smart we are for knowing this was a bad move from the very beginning.

:waaa:
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Re: Shams: Jazz trade for Conley... 

Post#191 » by Cappy_Smurf » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:28 am

Rauxcee wrote:My rant on the GB:

As a Jazz fan I absolutely hate this. Is there a worse GM in the league at asset management than David Lindsey? Because I don't think there is.

What a terrible, terrible trade. Memphis just took us to the shed and bent us over. :nonono:



For someone who is normally a good poster, this is pretty ridiculous.

Look at where the Celtics were 2 years ago when Haywood chose them over us. Utah just had a better win/loss record than the celtics (in a tougher conference)and have now added a 3rd all-star level player to their roster, while things are coming apart at the seams for Boston.

But sure, you're probably right. We have the worstest most terriblest GM evar. There were only 7 teams better than the JAzz last year and we just made a move that could make us significantly better, but life probably isn't worth living anymore.

Sell the team!
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Re: Shams: Jazz trade for Conley... 

Post#192 » by Rauxcee » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:41 am

Cappy_Smurf wrote:
Rauxcee wrote:My rant on the GB:

As a Jazz fan I absolutely hate this. Is there a worse GM in the league at asset management than David Lindsey? Because I don't think there is.

What a terrible, terrible trade. Memphis just took us to the shed and bent us over. :nonono:



For someone who is normally a good poster, this is pretty ridiculous.

Look at where the Celtics were 2 years ago when Haywood chose them over us. Utah just had a better win/loss record than the celtics (in a tougher conference)and have now added a 3rd all-star level player to their roster, while things are coming apart at the seams for Boston.

But sure, you're probably right. We have the worstest most terriblest GM evar. There were only 7 teams better than the JAzz last year and we just made a move that could make us significantly better, but life probably isn't worth living anymore.

Sell the team!


You don't think trading 5 FRP's in 3 years for player rentals is bad business? We're not even talking top 25 player rentals either. Conley is a great player, significant upgrade, but will be 34 in 2 years if he stays. You think Conley is anything but a 2 year rental? He could very well be a 1 year rental.

Not to mention we sell our second round picks. Every year it feels like. Who was our last 2nd round pick? Bolomboy?

I don't know how anyone can think dumping 5 FRP's, and never utilizing SRP, on player rentals only is good for the long term health of a small market team. I'm a bit baffled really.

I suppose if you are only looking at next years team, and if he stays, the following season, then it's not a bad deal. It's a significant upgrade. It's not present Jazz's problem, it's the future Jazz's problem. I happen to care about the future Jazz too, so... here I am. Upset.
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Re: Shams: Jazz trade for Conley... 

Post#193 » by vryadli » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:59 am

And Neto is waived too...

That was shuffling decision as opposite to fighting decision as humanly possible. Utah just went all way to the Atlanta Wizards land. I had terrible premonitions for 6-7 years of very consistent underachievement. Comfortable losses to each stronger opponent, consisten losing of most important games to equals, some missed playoffs even...

OK, it is just a game after all.
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Re: Shams: Jazz trade for Conley... 

Post#194 » by KDBG » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:13 am

vryadli wrote:And Neto is waived too...

That was shuffling decision as opposite to fighting decision as humanly possible. Utah just went all way to the Atlanta Wizards land. I had terrible premonitions for 6-7 years of very consistent underachievement. Comfortable losses to each stronger opponent, consisten losing of most important games to equals, some missed playoffs even...

OK, it is just a game after all.

Dude, Tobias may be happening...
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Re: Shams: Jazz trade for Conley... 

Post#195 » by KDBG » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:30 am

vryadli wrote:And Neto is waived too...

That was shuffling decision as opposite to fighting decision as humanly possible. Utah just went all way to the Atlanta Wizards land. I had terrible premonitions for 6-7 years of very consistent underachievement. Comfortable losses to each stronger opponent, consisten losing of most important games to equals, some missed playoffs even...

OK, it is just a game after all.

Dude, Tobias may be happening...
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Re: Shams: Jazz trade for Conley... 

Post#196 » by GobertReport » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:38 am

KDBG wrote:
vryadli wrote:And Neto is waived too...

That was shuffling decision as opposite to fighting decision as humanly possible. Utah just went all way to the Atlanta Wizards land. I had terrible premonitions for 6-7 years of very consistent underachievement. Comfortable losses to each stronger opponent, consisten losing of most important games to equals, some missed playoffs even...

OK, it is just a game after all.

Dude, Tobias may be happening...



Umm links?
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Re: Shams: Jazz trade for Conley... 

Post#197 » by vryadli » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:55 am

KqWIN wrote:
Inigo Montoya wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:If we don't get a championship this year, DL should be fired. Horrid trade, absolutely horrid.

We're not going to even make the WCF. What's likely to happen is that the rest of the teams who have yet to make their moves, will make them during the draft and free agency, and get better. In the end, we'll still end up as the 4-5 seed again, and will again have a 1st-2nd round exit.


I get that this is a win now move, but I don't jive with the logic that if we don't win a championship it is a failure. If we're holding this move to a standard, then we must also hold the other side of the deal that standard. For example, if the picks and cap space do not eventually lead to a championship, it is also failure.

The sky is always falling in the NBA, but in reality, neither direction actually increases our championship odds on a ton. Conley doesn't make us a championship juggernaut. But late first round picks and $30M in cap space when every max player is off the board also does not make you a championship juggernaut.


If Jazz is stuck around 4-th seed I'd much better like it with "home-bound" overachieving roster (like Crowder, Korver and Rubio) than one-two years aging rentals who have somewhat more talent but care even less.

And - more important - will Rudy be happy with this pieces shuffling during his best years? He clearly is team guy and team mean more than design on T-shirt. If there are neither valid ring option nor tight knitted tough fighting underdog small market team - why he will stay in Utah with constantly changing mix?
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Re: Shams: Jazz trade for Conley... 

Post#198 » by Rauxcee » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:55 am

GobertReport wrote:
KDBG wrote:
vryadli wrote:And Neto is waived too...

That was shuffling decision as opposite to fighting decision as humanly possible. Utah just went all way to the Atlanta Wizards land. I had terrible premonitions for 6-7 years of very consistent underachievement. Comfortable losses to each stronger opponent, consisten losing of most important games to equals, some missed playoffs even...

OK, it is just a game after all.

Dude, Tobias may be happening...



Umm links?



I think its just speculation. Really no reason to waive Neto unless they are trying to make cap space for something.

I don't think we can make enough for Harris though.
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Re: Shams: Jazz trade for Conley... 

Post#199 » by GobertReport » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:00 am

Rauxcee wrote:
GobertReport wrote:
KDBG wrote:Dude, Tobias may be happening...



Umm links?



I think its just speculation. Really no reason to waive Neto unless they are trying to make cap space for something.

I don't think we can make enough for Harris though.


We have to waive or trade Favs and send Exum into cap.
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Re: Shams: Jazz trade for Conley... 

Post#200 » by SoCalJazzFan » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:04 am

GobertReport wrote:
Rauxcee wrote:
GobertReport wrote:

Umm links?



I think its just speculation. Really no reason to waive Neto unless they are trying to make cap space for something.

I don't think we can make enough for Harris though.


We have to waive or trade Favs and send Exum into cap.

That's not $32.7M cap you need for Tobias. I don't see a realistic way to get there.

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