WOJ: Utah gets Bogdanovic

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Re: WOJ: Utah gets Bogdanovic 

Post#81 » by KqWIN » Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:10 am

stitches wrote:Thanks for your observations, KqWIN. Very nice summary. Would you say he's 10% better than Crowder? (Lowe shot here)
KqWIN wrote:
Thinking about watching some Conley next...what are some good matchups to watch for Conley?

Ones where he guards Harden's behind... :oops:

But seriously... having in mind that we were eliminated by HOU twice now, we probably need to see how he does against them. The thing with the PG defense in the league today - it's depended a hell of a lot on the scheme you use and it's largely a support role rather than primary role. So yeah... I guess HOU game... maybe a game with a couple of good offensive wings - I would like to see how he does when switched on bigger player. Who would that be? PG13? Kawhi? LeBron? Butler?


This one could be a gem to watch...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201903200MEM.html

He's more than 10% better than Crowder, and more importantly I don't think he's actually a downgrade on defense. I didn't think Crowder was good on defense, so that's not saying much, but he will make the closing lineup better.
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Re: WOJ: Utah gets Bogdanovic 

Post#82 » by Tom349 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:10 am

KqWIN wrote:Mar 27th @ Thunder

Defended by: Paul George and Terrance Ferguson
Defended: Terrance Ferguson

Q1
- Guarding Ferguson, guarded by George
- Aggressive 3 off the pindown...splash
- Guarding WB in crossmatch, blown by and needs to foul
- Pacer's poor spacing and design on full display. Bogey gets the ball on the left wing to drive with his right to the middle, all 4 other Pacers are either in his line to the basket or on the right side so he has nowhere to go.
- Finally gets the spacing right and he gets the step on George and finishes off of double pin down.

Q2
- Good closeout versus Ferguson
- Nice crosscourt pass from the wing to the opposite quarter. Handling the ball a little bit more now.
- Quicker trigger in catch and shoot compared to the other two games I watched. Drains another from the corner.
- Gets Grant in a switch and misses the 3 over him.
- George has him in a crossmatch in the high post. Good defense leads to a missed jumper
-End of quarter shot...High PnR from top and drains a tough mid ranger over Adams

Q3
- Some more PnR...makes a read and pass for a bucket
- Get's Adams in a switch, blows by him but Grant gets an athletic block in help defense.
- Rejects a screen and gets by George...runs into a wall of help defenders and misses. He really likes his right hand. Next possesion turnover in PnR.

Q4
- Has Ferg in the post, overpowers him but doesn't get the call.
- Doesn't get through elevator screens. Not good at getting around off ball screens in general.
- Lightning release from 3.
- Now matched up with PG. Pretty good hustle back in PnR, but George scores over Sabonis at the rim easily
- Another quick trigger 3 is in, misses the heat check on next possesion
- Gets caught sleeping on Ferguson who cuts backdoor for an alley oop
- Long peroid of not getting involved, gets the score off the pindown. Then a 3 ball off the dribble in PG's face. Next possession another splash using a pindown from the opposite side. Why didn't they feed him earlier?


Offense - Out of the three games I've watched, this was the one he was most involved in by far...and yet, he still did not get involved like I thought he would. He's definitely a guy who scores in the flow of a game and not one that takes over to create his own offense.

I think this will work well playing with Mitchell and Conley doing most of the creating. He should get a lot of good opportunities to play off of those guys. I'm a little bit less optomistic about him carrying an offense on his own, however. Even with higher usage, he's not breaking down the defense and making things happen for his teammates.

When he does get his offense going, it's in ways that Jazz fans should be familiar with. He needs to get the advantage on his defender with some kind of off ball movement, usually a pindown from the corner, but once he does he can do some damage with his shooting and he's not a bad passer either.


Defense - Not much to speak about this game, was matched up with Ferguson the whole time. That dude is terrible.


That's it for the Bogey-Thon...for now.

Thinking about watching some Conley next...what are some good matchups to watch for Conley?


Thanks for analysis.

As for Conley matchups I think Clippers with an aggressive defender like Beverly would be a good match up to look at, as would match ups against Portlands smaller backcourt and Toronto with Lowry/Green backcourt.
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Re: WOJ: Utah gets Bogdanovic 

Post#83 » by Inigo Montoya » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:20 pm

Since we're aiming high this season, I think the most relevant matchups to watch would be against teams we'd need to go through in the playoffs.
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Re: WOJ: Utah gets Bogdanovic 

Post#84 » by KqWIN » Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:35 pm

Here's a thought that came to mind on Bogdanovic...he's the anti-Westbrook.

No matter what you think of him, we can all agree that Westbrook is a force and makes his presence known at all times. He's not going to run an offensive set, but he will attack you relentlessly and make things happen, good or bad, at will. Bogey is the opposite. You might not even realize he's on the court for 3-4 minutes. Everything he gets is in the flow of the offense or in transition.

Westbrook is not efficient, but he's constantly breaking down the defense and creating opportunities for his teammates. Bogey is supper efficient but doesn't break down the defense and apply the same constant pressure.

This applies to the defensive end too. Bogey is very unspectacular. On the ball, he's going to stay in front until the help defense comes. Off the ball he's going to stay in position and not try to gamble or make any plays. Westbrook is never in position and always looking to jump a passing lane or make a defensive play. He's also going to go for every rebound and grab a few crazy one's with his athleticism. Meanwhile, Bogey is probably going to stand around for the rebound. If he's already in position, he'll box out, but he doesn't really go for the ball.
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Re: WOJ: Utah gets Bogdanovic 

Post#85 » by Daddy 801 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:59 pm

KqWIN wrote:Here's a thought that came to mind on Bogdanovic...he's the anti-Westbrook.

No matter what you think of him, we can all agree that Westbrook is a force and makes his presence known at all times. He's not going to run an offensive set, but he will attack you relentlessly and make things happen, good or bad, at will. Bogey is the opposite. You might not even realize he's on the court for 3-4 minutes. Everything he gets is in the flow of the offense or in transition.

Westbrook is not efficient, but he's constantly breaking down the defense and creating opportunities for his teammates. Bogey is supper efficient but doesn't break down the defense and apply the same constant pressure.

This applies to the defensive end too. Bogey is very unspectacular. On the ball, he's going to stay in front until the help defense comes. Off the ball he's going to stay in position and not try to gamble or make any plays. Westbrook is never in position and always looking to jump a passing lane or make a defensive play. He's also going to go for every rebound and grab a few crazy one's with his athleticism. Meanwhile, Bogey is probably going to stand around for the rebound. If he's already in position, he'll box out, but he doesn't really go for the ball.


Works for me. Give me efficient ball movement and good shots that result in W’s over highlight plays and L’s. My dream would be our offense looks like the Spurs circa 2014. Beautiful ball movement, open shots, demoralize the opposing team with efficient play, and suffering defense. Let’s be the most boring team in the league and get W’s.

Side note...not growing up in Utah I though some
of the complaints about the media ignoring the Jazz were overblown. But this season has proven to me the national media is just ignorant. And people are sleeping on the Jazz. If the numbers are at all accurate of what the offense is capable of, and the defense maintains, teams are going to hate coming to Utah.
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Re: WOJ: Utah gets Bogdanovic 

Post#87 » by KqWIN » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:06 pm

Bojan is not liked by the advanced numbers. Defensively, he doesn't have any stats. Just one total block the entire year and also low steal+rebound rates. IMO, they do underrate him because of this. His DRAPM (which includes no box score stats) was 79th and 106th in the last two seasons respectively. Not bad at all. He's not a good defender, but I don't think he's a total disaster. The Pacers played well with him on the court.

You would think that the offensive numbers would favor him more. Good usage, great efficiency...but they're just ok. I actually think this is more true to his game. He's a high teen, efficient scorer...but he didn't have the impact that I thought he would on film considering how good of a shooter and scorer he was. He makes his teammates better because of his floor spacing, but he's definitely a guy who needs the offense to do the heavy lifting in order to get his shots. He's not the one breaking down the defense and making things happen.

Overall I was kind of surprised by the lack of impact on either end. Not too much negative value on defense, not as much positive value as I'd hoped for on offense.

If I were to place him on my own accord, I'd probably say he's about a +1.0-1.5 offensive player and -0.5-1.0 defensive player.
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Re: WOJ: Utah gets Bogdanovic 

Post#88 » by KqWIN » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:41 pm

Daddy 801 wrote:
Side note...not growing up in Utah I though some
of the complaints about the media ignoring the Jazz were overblown. But this season has proven to me the national media is just ignorant. And people are sleeping on the Jazz. If the numbers are at all accurate of what the offense is capable of, and the defense maintains, teams are going to hate coming to Utah.


I disagree with this, the have gotten a ton of positive media coverage. It's not unanimous, but that doesn't mean we're getting the short end of the stick. Woj, for example, has basically been a speaker box for the organization this whole summer.

The media game is all about relationships, and some coaching staffs and front offices clearly have good friendships with the media that leads to favorable coverage. Quin, DL, Zanik and their staffs are definitely part of the IN crowd when it comes to positive media coverage.

I don't think it's too hard to see which people, or which types of people, fit into this group. It's a little disturbing if I'm being honest, but that's a bigger discussion that's probably better off not being discussed on a basketball forum.
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Re: WOJ: Utah gets Bogdanovic 

Post#89 » by Daddy 801 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:57 pm

KqWIN wrote:
Daddy 801 wrote:
Side note...not growing up in Utah I though some
of the complaints about the media ignoring the Jazz were overblown. But this season has proven to me the national media is just ignorant. And people are sleeping on the Jazz. If the numbers are at all accurate of what the offense is capable of, and the defense maintains, teams are going to hate coming to Utah.


I disagree with this, the have gotten a ton of positive media coverage. It's not unanimous, but that doesn't mean we're getting the short end of the stick. Woj, for example, has basically been a speaker box for the organization this whole summer.

The media game is all about relationships, and some coaching staffs and front offices clearly have good friendships with the media that leads to favorable coverage. Quin, DL, Zanik and their staffs are definitely part of the IN crowd when it comes to positive media coverage.

I don't think it's too hard to see which people, or which types of people, fit into this group. It's a little disturbing if I'm being honest, but that's a bigger discussion that's probably better off not being discussed on a basketball forum.


We must be seeing different coverage. Any conversation of the championship ready teams has barely talked about Utah. It’s all LA. I’m not super bugged about it. It’s just an observation I’m seeing. I don’t have twitter so I don’t see any WOJ really.
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Re: WOJ: Utah gets Bogdanovic 

Post#90 » by babyjax13 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:03 am

Watching another game (against Minnesota where Bogey goes nuts).

For everyone wondering how he'll look, watch this video of Conley, Bogz is perfect to play off of him and we are going to have a nightmarish offense.



1Q
- Showed a variety of nice passes, behind the back bounce pass to a corner three, a few bounce passes out of traffic to the perimeter
- Not really scoring but putting pressure on the defense, defending a combination of Okogie and Wiggins and doing fine, stays in position, doesn't really try to get steals or blocks, just be in the right position.
- didn't really score, took a contested floater and missed, I think he hit the opening three but missed it

2Q
- checks in w/ 6:09 left
- immediately hits a layup off a nice cut
- hits a challenged three on a kickout
- he's playing power forward w/Sabonis out
- they have him running in to double KAT now, he moves really well, makes the right rotation after the ball is moved
- offball screen on the left side turns into Bogz turning the corner on the defender after getting the ball, knocking around smaller guys like they are ping pong balls and easily finishes with contact
- Saric tries to post Bogz up, gets forced out of the key and has to give it up
- KAT has 26 and the quarter isn't over, Bogz is keeping them in this
- takes Saric inside, loses the ball but recovers and kicks it to the corner for a three
- goes up for a layup on the break, Teague absolutely trucks him and he still finishes, misses the freethrow
- switches from Saric to Wiggins, stays in front of Wiggins no problem (also, god Wiggins sucks)
- has lost Saric cutting to the hoop twice, but it has ended in a turnover both times
- they are having Bogz be a screener to get Teague to switch on him, turns the ball over this time as Wiggins pokes it away from the weak side, but does a nice job backing Teague down...he's furious no one called wolf
- cleans up a miss on the fast break, runs it perfectly (great spacing) has been one of the first people on the break every time

3Q
- moves Okogie wherever he wants, runs him straight into an off ball screen, catches it open, taunts the defense and drills the open three
- immediately beats Wiggins down the court, fouled
- he had 16p in the first half, I thought he had 11 ... am I not watching this close?
- if you look away for a millisecond, he notices, back cut for a dunk, runs Wiggins right into Towns
- takes Okogie 1:1 can't get around him on his own but off of a pnr puts Okogie and Taj on an island, draws a third defender and kicks it out to the open shooter

4Q
- again, draws two defenders on a drive, moves it to the open man who is fouled
- tries to box out Towns but just not big enough to keep him off the glass
- Okogie overplays Bogie's cut, he comes off a flare screen and hits a three
- loses Wiggins on a back cut who overplays him coming up for 3
- close game w/3.5 mins left
- nails an open three on a kickout
- secures a rebound at a key point (Wolves within 5)
- just hits a rediculous reverse layup on a drive with a defender on his back and Towns challenging
- playing power forward again, making the right reads about who to box out (Taj vs. coming over and helping on Towns) not a good rebounder, but making some decent reads
- gets past Wiggins after not taking the screen, Wiggins goaltends and the foul
- misses the and1
- hits two freethrows to ice it

Bogz was fantastic in this game. If he hits a dumb defender he will absolutely annihilate them. Physical, extremely competetive. On defense he really isn't hurting you, but he's also not elevating your defense either, just kinda there, mostly in the right place. I absolutely love him, he's going to be great on this team. I don't know if there is another player in the league who plays so well within their limitations, he just knows what he can and can't do. 37pts 7rbs, split his time between the 3 and the 4. Also, absolutely punishes smaller defenders, he is really physical on his drives and does not care if someone comes up to challenge him.
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Re: WOJ: Utah gets Bogdanovic 

Post#91 » by El Hespiritu » Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:10 pm

I'm not buying that Bogs is just as good (or bad) as Jae Redliner in defense.

But for sure he's a nice shooting addition.
I see him more as a starting KK than as a Crowder's substitute.

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Re: WOJ: Utah gets Bogdanovic 

Post#92 » by zero24gravity » Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:02 pm

Daddy 801 wrote:
KqWIN wrote:
Daddy 801 wrote:
Side note...not growing up in Utah I though some
of the complaints about the media ignoring the Jazz were overblown. But this season has proven to me the national media is just ignorant. And people are sleeping on the Jazz. If the numbers are at all accurate of what the offense is capable of, and the defense maintains, teams are going to hate coming to Utah.


I disagree with this, the have gotten a ton of positive media coverage. It's not unanimous, but that doesn't mean we're getting the short end of the stick. Woj, for example, has basically been a speaker box for the organization this whole summer.

The media game is all about relationships, and some coaching staffs and front offices clearly have good friendships with the media that leads to favorable coverage. Quin, DL, Zanik and their staffs are definitely part of the IN crowd when it comes to positive media coverage.

I don't think it's too hard to see which people, or which types of people, fit into this group. It's a little disturbing if I'm being honest, but that's a bigger discussion that's probably better off not being discussed on a basketball forum.


We must be seeing different coverage. Any conversation of the championship ready teams has barely talked about Utah. It’s all LA. I’m not super bugged about it. It’s just an observation I’m seeing. I don’t have twitter so I don’t see any WOJ really.


The National love for the Jazz's offseason is real, I've seen in all over. However, once the Clippers made their splash, it certainly pushed the Jazz off to the side the media map. I've been happy with what I've seen though, except when you start watching some of the sports shows where it's all about being loud and obnoxious (there's a few of those on various networks). Those shows are 100% big-market, and sound like foolish fan-boys most the time, anyway. Woj, Van Pelt, Around the Horn, First Take, etc .... all have been pretty fair to the Jazz, IMO.
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Re: WOJ: Utah gets Bogdanovic 

Post#93 » by stitches » Fri Aug 9, 2019 4:18 pm

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Re: WOJ: Utah gets Bogdanovic 

Post#94 » by babyjax13 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:51 pm

I'm expecting Bojan to be our second leading scorer, at this point.
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Re: WOJ: Utah gets Bogdanovic 

Post#95 » by KqWIN » Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:15 pm

I think Bojan will be 4th on the team in scoring...but the argument is there that he was the best scorer out of anyone we have on our roster once Dipo when down. He needs to keep his quick trigger.

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