WOJ: Utah gets Bogdanovic

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Re: WOJ: Utah gets Bogdanovic 

Post#61 » by Tom349 » Mon Jul 1, 2019 7:31 am

Excellent addition to go along with our main off season signing in Conley. Our ability to space the floor and make open shots has drastically improved which was in my opinion our biggest issue from the last season given the number of open looks we create but not only have we improved this area we've also added two guys who can create for themselves. Conley at an elite level and Bojan at a respectable level.

Bojan now gives us two top five three point shooters from the corner which given we already have the number 1 screener in the league in Gobert and two good ball handers in Conley and Mitchell we're either going to have an open lane or open shot every time we run a pick n roll. Very few teams will be able to handle us, especially someone like Denver who hide Jokics poor PnR defense by packing the paint.

Our own defense now becomes more of an issue, however as long as everyone can stay with their man and stay involved then teams will be still be forced to contend with Gobert at the rim. The problem will be once we come against the likes of Kat and Brook Lopez who will force Gobert out of the paint. Im not sure what our solution for that is, might have to rely on out scoring them with our extra firepower.

Lastly despite being 30 I think this is a very good deal for us when you consider what we were prepared to pay an inferior player in Mirotic (15m) and other less likely options such as Harris got.
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Re: WOJ: Utah gets Bogdanovic 

Post#62 » by babyjax13 » Mon Jul 1, 2019 8:41 am

GobertReport wrote:If we waive Neto, Bradley, and Niang we should get the full MLE right?


No, we aren't an over the cap team before free agency. The only way to make it work was to sign and trade Rubio (and then we couldn't get Conley) - there is no full MLE.

Also, Bradley's contract is UNG. I kind of think we didn't use the RMLE on Davis, or he is waiting to sign until after we use our cap space from waiving Neto/Niang. With the right order of operations (Bogs, cut Neto/Niang) we should have 3.5-5 million (too lazy to figure out exactly how much we can create) plus the RMLE.
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Re: WOJ: Utah gets Bogdanovic 

Post#63 » by Jazztop » Mon Jul 1, 2019 11:28 am

Gonna miss Favors - he was a great and loyal player who in the end I think is a bit underrated.

But Bogdanovic is a nice addition. It’s an exciting time after a somewhat deflating end to last season.
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Re: WOJ: Utah gets Bogdanovic 

Post#64 » by zero24gravity » Mon Jul 1, 2019 6:41 pm

The good: The Jazz got themselves a straight-up shooting assassin. This guy has elite shooting numbers. I felt like the loss of Korver was huge in the playoffs, and was wondering how the team would replace him. Well, this did that plus some. A jump shooter who shoots near 50% from the field and over 42% on 3's is crazy good. I'm thrilled with his addition. 18ppg players don't generally come this cheap.

The bad: He's not a strong defender. He's not a good rebounder and doesn't really have great size, if the plan is to have him play the PF spot. I worry that the Jazz's identity of being bigger & more intimidating in the paint than anyone else goes by the way-side and they will be one of many teams who simply outscore people. I liked them being different.

Overall, in a vacuum, I'm happy with adding Bogdanovic. Perfect type of player for the Jazz's needs.
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Re: WOJ: Utah gets Bogdanovic 

Post#65 » by stitches » Mon Jul 1, 2019 9:44 pm

According to Tony we had agreement in principle with Mirotic for about 14-15M before he decided to go back to Europe due to "family pressure". Then the Jazz pivoted toward Bogdanovic. They thought Bogdanovic is the better player but didn't think they can get him for the money they had, but it seemed like Bogdanovic loved the idea of competing for a title and saw the Jazz as a great opportunity to do it. That's why the deal got sealed so quickly.

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Re: WOJ: Utah gets Bogdanovic 

Post#66 » by pickIBL » Tue Jul 2, 2019 5:16 pm

I obviously like Bojan. Take half out for taxes. Factor dollars for Euros and my guess is Barca pushed it enough that the rich guy decided to take less to go back to europe. His woman pressured him. Bobby's fist pressured him. Idk. He's the big fish in the pond now.
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Re: WOJ: Utah gets Bogdanovic 

Post#67 » by KqWIN » Tue Jul 2, 2019 5:57 pm

stitches wrote:According to Tony we had agreement in principle with Mirotic for about 14-15M before he decided to go back to Europe due to "family pressure". Then the Jazz pivoted toward Bogdanovic. They thought Bogdanovic is the better player but didn't think they can get him for the money they had, but it seemed like Bogdanovic loved the idea of competing for a title and saw the Jazz as a great opportunity to do it. That's why the deal got sealed so quickly.

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I would have preferred Niko. I think he's underrated, and Bojan potentially overrated at this point.
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Re: WOJ: Utah gets Bogdanovic 

Post#68 » by stitches » Tue Jul 2, 2019 6:01 pm

KqWIN wrote:I would have preferred Niko. I think he's underrated, and Bojan potentially overrated at this point.

At least he's an actual great shooter rather than fake great shooter. I prefer Bogdanovic as a player by a lot... but the thing I don't like is his age and the length of the contract. That combination is less than ideal.
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Re: WOJ: Utah gets Bogdanovic 

Post#69 » by JazzyPhinz » Tue Jul 2, 2019 6:05 pm

stitches wrote:
KqWIN wrote:I would have preferred Niko. I think he's underrated, and Bojan potentially overrated at this point.

At least he's an actual great shooter rather than fake great shooter. I prefer Bogdanovic as a player by a lot... but the thing I don't like is his age and the length of the contract. That combination is less than ideal.


Bog's deal runs through his 30-34 age.
I think the contract is fine for the entire length.
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Re: WOJ: Utah gets Bogdanovic 

Post#70 » by pickIBL » Tue Jul 2, 2019 6:37 pm

Sounds like the jazz are trying to blow a hole in the west this year and next... not worrying about the future. If that's the case they need to make another good trade and more vet signings when the time comes
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Re: WOJ: Utah gets Bogdanovic 

Post#71 » by KqWIN » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:56 pm

Feeling inspired by babyjax in the most boring sports week of the year. Will be watching these games:

Pacers @ Lakers - Nov 29
Pacers @ Raptors - Dec 19
Pacers @ OKC - Mar 27
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Re: WOJ: Utah gets Bogdanovic 

Post#72 » by KqWIN » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:24 pm

Nov 29th @ Lakers (No Oladipo)

Primary Matchups

Defended by: Kuzma
Defended: LeBron exclusively 1st half, Kuzma primarily second half

Q1
Physically overwhelmed by LBJ, once with speed, then with strength
LBJ being mean, making shots in his face
Left side player, gets screen from corner to wing
Mostly helpless in transition
Go and catch attack when defender a step out of position

Q2
Indy scoring now, better team defense
Able to pack paint in half court defense, Pacers on a run b/c of Sabonis

Q3
Switched matchups. Bogey-Kuzma and Young- LBJ
Not very active on defense, some soft moments
Indy offense is bad, mid range spot up kill offense
Young going way under, vs Bogey going over and relying on drop coverage
Good recovery in drop defense PnR defense vs LBJ
Hart destroyed in post

Q4
Kuzma nothing in the post
Post up #2, doubled Lonzo and Chandler probably fouled
Kuzma two man game/PnR nothing
Back on bron, makes him turn, and1 vs the help defense (should have been offensive)
Stays in front again, help defense from corner
LBJ doing LBJ things vs Young and Turner to shut the door. They had no chance


Offense - Decent movement off the ball. Typically starts in the left corner, and getes a screen up to the wing. Spacing is very poor compared to Jazz despite having Turner. Turner stands in the driving lane so Bogey has less room to turn the corner to basket. Also sets some half hearted screens. Think this would work better with Gobert who sets a hard screen and rolls. This way Bogey can either get the shot off the screen or have more room to turn and drive to the basket.

Likes the go and catch. If a player is a step out of position on the closeout he doesn't hesitate to attack. Create some decent offense/opportunities doing this. Also, wish IND used him more in the post. Looked very comfortable and strong on the left block.

Overall, not very aggressive. Looks like he needs some kind of action or advantage in order to beat his man. Should find life much easier with the Jazz.

Defense - Physically dominated by LeBron early. Then it was LBJ's greatness that took over, making tough shot after tough shot. 1st quarter was mostly a disaster against for the Pacers. Lack of scoring left them helpless in transition. He's very slow...which is a problem. His strength is alright.

After the first, their offense improved and they were able to set up their defense. Much better all around. Kuzma didn't get much of anything against Bogey, but he wasn't too aggressive. LBJ was still able to get by Bogey in the second half, but he was forced to turn once or twice and that gave more than enough time for the help defense.

LBJ ended up taking over and disregarding the defense to make tough shots and close the game. He was just too good.
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Re: WOJ: Utah gets Bogdanovic 

Post#73 » by KqWIN » Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:45 pm

Dec 19th @ Raptors (Oladipo Playing)

Primary Matchups
Kawhi both ways, a few minutes where Thad took on Kawhi (Thad got roasted)

Q1
- Beats Siakam off the dribble, blocked from behind (looked like a goaltend)
- Kawhi is not trying on defense
- Good hustle getting back in drop coverage.
- Stays in front of Kawhi in semi transition, allows the help to come
- Bad off the ball this Q. Not active, trouble getting through screen, sleeping a bit. Team did a great job though.

Q2
- Royce O'Neale mistake, pump fake and drive instead of shooting the open 3. Doesn't have a quick trigger
- Kawhi iso...Bogey stays in front, but Kawhi bodies him up for space and the score. Too good.
- Next play Kawhi in PnR, great drop coverage execution by Turner and Bogey

Q3
- Another Kawhi iso straight at Bogey. Bogey stays in front again, Kawhi muscles him off for space but misses this time.
- Pacers defense is very good, their execution is terrific. Great job of knowing when and where to help. All 5 guys know what they're doing.
- Kawhi beats Bogey after getting the advantage on the secondary break. Decent job of staying front but ultimately fouled him (he didn't like the call)
- Set play for 3 at the top of the arc. Knew he was going to shoot it the whole way and drained it.
-Kawhi quick pivot move and blow by out of SLOB. Bogey wasn't ready and had to foul. Young now moved onto Leonard after that lapse.

Q4
- Back defending Kawhi. Sraight iso at the top, Bogey stays in front and has great contest (Kawhi thinks he got fouled).
- Has Wright on a crossmatch, good stunt and recover. Stones Wright on the closeout
- Bogey subs out for a couple minutes and double digit lead has disappeared. What happened?
- Thad on Kawhi to close the game, Kawhi torches him
- Final minute and a half, Bogey gets Kawhi assignment out of a TO. Good defense in PnR leads to a miss
- Up two with about 40 seconds left, Kawhi iso at the top. Terrific defense by Bogdanovic. Help comes at the very end and forces Kawhi to pass...FVV with a clutch 3 off of an offensive rebound.
- Danny Green forces jump ball w/Oladipo and then wins it.
- Bogey gets one last opportunity with 1 second left down 3, gets stripped but was blatantly fouled.


Offense - Was he even in this game? And how did he score 18 points? Bogey was even more passive compared to the first game I watched in which Oldaipo was out. He got opportunities in the same situations, catching on the move from left corner to the wing and on the go and catch...they were much more few and far in between this game. Primarily spaced out in the corner while Oladipo operated a lot in mid PnR.

I think this is a good thing and a bad thing. On one hand, it's sort of frustrating to watch him disappear on offense. I wish he was more aggressive and that the Pacers involved him more. On the other hand, he's still having an effect by standing in the corner. It gives spacing to his teammates. Also, 18 points in a game where you were seemingly invisible isn't bad!


Defense - This was a strong defensive game for Bogey. On the ball he very good for the most part. He had a couple moments where Kawhi beat him, but this is Kawhi Leonard we're talking about. He got put in iso many times and staid in front pretty much every time. Kawhi had to work even when he scored.

Also, great job in PnR drop coverage. He had great hustle to get back into the play and contest Kawhi from behind.

Off the ball he wasn't as good, he was a little spacey. This was mostly at the beginning of the game but didn't have too much of an effect on the game.

I like IND's defense and I like that they use Bogey as the primary defender. Bogey isn't bad when he's engaged, and you have to be engaged when guarding someone like Kawhi. He does well enough that their great help defenders can come over and they do an amazing job of recovering and/or creating turnovers in a scramble.
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Re: WOJ: Utah gets Bogdanovic 

Post#74 » by KqWIN » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:46 pm

Mar 27th @ Thunder

Defended by: Paul George and Terrance Ferguson
Defended: Terrance Ferguson

Q1
- Guarding Ferguson, guarded by George
- Aggressive 3 off the pindown...splash
- Guarding WB in crossmatch, blown by and needs to foul
- Pacer's poor spacing and design on full display. Bogey gets the ball on the left wing to drive with his right to the middle, all 4 other Pacers are either in his line to the basket or on the right side so he has nowhere to go.
- Finally gets the spacing right and he gets the step on George and finishes off of double pin down.

Q2
- Good closeout versus Ferguson
- Nice crosscourt pass from the wing to the opposite quarter. Handling the ball a little bit more now.
- Quicker trigger in catch and shoot compared to the other two games I watched. Drains another from the corner.
- Gets Grant in a switch and misses the 3 over him.
- George has him in a crossmatch in the high post. Good defense leads to a missed jumper
-End of quarter shot...High PnR from top and drains a tough mid ranger over Adams

Q3
- Some more PnR...makes a read and pass for a bucket
- Get's Adams in a switch, blows by him but Grant gets an athletic block in help defense.
- Rejects a screen and gets by George...runs into a wall of help defenders and misses. He really likes his right hand. Next possesion turnover in PnR.

Q4
- Has Ferg in the post, overpowers him but doesn't get the call.
- Doesn't get through elevator screens. Not good at getting around off ball screens in general.
- Lightning release from 3.
- Now matched up with PG. Pretty good hustle back in PnR, but George scores over Sabonis at the rim easily
- Another quick trigger 3 is in, misses the heat check on next possesion
- Gets caught sleeping on Ferguson who cuts backdoor for an alley oop
- Long peroid of not getting involved, gets the score off the pindown. Then a 3 ball off the dribble in PG's face. Next possession another splash using a pindown from the opposite side. Why didn't they feed him earlier?


Offense - Out of the three games I've watched, this was the one he was most involved in by far...and yet, he still did not get involved like I thought he would. He's definitely a guy who scores in the flow of a game and not one that takes over to create his own offense.

I think this will work well playing with Mitchell and Conley doing most of the creating. He should get a lot of good opportunities to play off of those guys. I'm a little bit less optomistic about him carrying an offense on his own, however. Even with higher usage, he's not breaking down the defense and making things happen for his teammates.

When he does get his offense going, it's in ways that Jazz fans should be familiar with. He needs to get the advantage on his defender with some kind of off ball movement, usually a pindown from the corner, but once he does he can do some damage with his shooting and he's not a bad passer either.


Defense - Not much to speak about this game, was matched up with Ferguson the whole time. That dude is terrible.


That's it for the Bogey-Thon...for now.

Thinking about watching some Conley next...what are some good matchups to watch for Conley?
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Re: WOJ: Utah gets Bogdanovic 

Post#75 » by babyjax13 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:00 pm

Those observations match what I'm seeing so far. For Conley, I'd say vs. some of the elite point guards would be interesting (Houston, Golden State) and maybe some of the bigger guards (Philly, OKC?).
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Re: WOJ: Utah gets Bogdanovic 

Post#76 » by babyjax13 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:01 pm

Reposting here, gradually watching games this week so will post more:
I'm watching Bog games on league pass to get a better feel for where he is as a player. Just watched one against Milwaukee, main points thus far (we will see if they stick after watching more:
1) He scores quite a bit off of very few opportunities (compared to other players), he is great at moving the ball and exploits advantages the offense is designed to give
2) defensively his foot speed isn't ideal, and players do turn the corner on him, but he is good at making sure that when they do they are being funneled into another defender
3) highly competitive, he fights on every play and he's always scanning the floor

He was matched up with Middleton most of the night, occasionally switched onto Brogdon or Ilyasova (was mostly off the floor when Snell was on). Looked more impactful offensively than Middleton, but took less possessions. Middleton is a better two-way player, but I think Bogs acquits himself pretty well in that matchup. Brogdon blew by him a few times, but he did a good job making sure he wasn't getting a free run at the rim.
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Re: WOJ: Utah gets Bogdanovic 

Post#77 » by Daddy 801 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:24 am

For those taking time to watch video...thank you. Much appreciated.

I’d be curious to hear how you guys think he will translate in the Utah offense. How did he look in the PnR? Was he the roll man or ball handler more often? Did he get involved in any handoffs?

It sounds like he was a lot more off the ball than I anticipated from the summaries. That is a good/bad thing. I would assume he will always be on the floor with Mitchell, Conley, or Ingles so that should be fine.
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Re: WOJ: Utah gets Bogdanovic 

Post#78 » by KqWIN » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:17 am

Daddy 801 wrote:For those taking time to watch video...thank you. Much appreciated.

I’d be curious to hear how you guys think he will translate in the Utah offense. How did he look in the PnR? Was he the roll man or ball handler more often? Did he get involved in any handoffs?

It sounds like he was a lot more off the ball than I anticipated from the summaries. That is a good/bad thing. I would assume he will always be on the floor with Mitchell, Conley, or Ingles so that should be fine.


He's very off ball, and like you said I think that's a good and bad thing. He doesn't need a lot of opportunities to score. He finds them in the flow of the offense and doesn't disrupt anything. On the other hand, he might not have the total impact you'd expect from a 20 PPG, efficient scorer. He's not breaking down the defense or constantly putting pressure on them besides being a great spot up shooter. They'll be long periods where you won't notice him at all.

I think this is fine and maybe even ideal for a Jazz team with as many as 3 other ball handlers on the court with him. We don't need someone to take away ball handling possessions from Conley and Mitchell...but we do need someone who can play off them well and that is totally Bogey's game,

The main action he attacked out of was off of a pin down screen where he starts in the left corner and comes up to the wing. He's looking for a shot there or to turn the corner and create a pseudo PnR or DHO situation. The Jazz do this a ton for Ingles, just on the other side of the floor because he's a lefty. I think the movement and off actions will come natural Bogey and he'll benefit.

The key difference between IND and UTA offense is that their bigs do not roll hard to the basket and instead hover in the mid range or floater area. Rudy is going to roll hard to the basket and either take the big with him or get a free dunk. Conley had the same sort of thing going on in MEM with Gasol and JVal. These guys play with more touch and skill instead of going to hard to the basket. I don't think that should cause issues for Conley and Bogey, but it is change for sure.
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Re: WOJ: Utah gets Bogdanovic 

Post#79 » by Daddy 801 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:19 am

KqWIN wrote:
Daddy 801 wrote:For those taking time to watch video...thank you. Much appreciated.

I’d be curious to hear how you guys think he will translate in the Utah offense. How did he look in the PnR? Was he the roll man or ball handler more often? Did he get involved in any handoffs?

It sounds like he was a lot more off the ball than I anticipated from the summaries. That is a good/bad thing. I would assume he will always be on the floor with Mitchell, Conley, or Ingles so that should be fine.


He's very off ball, and like you said I think that's a good and bad thing. He doesn't need a lot of opportunities to score. He finds them in the flow of the offense and doesn't disrupt anything. On the other hand, he might not have the total impact you'd expect from a 20 PPG, efficient scorer. He's not breaking down the defense or constantly putting pressure on them besides being a great spot up shooter. They'll be long periods where you won't notice him at all.

I think this is fine and maybe even ideal for a Jazz team with as many as 3 other ball handlers on the court with him. We don't need someone to take away ball handling possessions from Conley and Mitchell...but we do need someone who can play off them well and that is totally Bogey's game,

The main action he attacked out of was off of a pin down screen where he starts in the left corner and comes up to the wing. He's looking for a shot there or to turn the corner and create a pseudo PnR or DHO situation. The Jazz do this a ton for Ingles, just on the other side of the floor because he's a lefty. I think the movement and off actions will come natural Bogey and he'll benefit.

The key difference between IND and UTA offense is that their bigs do not roll hard to the basket and instead hover in the mid range or floater area. Rudy is going to roll hard to the basket and either take the big with him or get a free dunk. Conley had the same sort of thing going on in MEM with Gasol and JVal. These guys play with more touch and skill instead of going to hard to the basket. I don't think that should cause issues for Conley and Bogey, but it is change for sure.


Sounds pretty close to what I envisioned. Perfect that him and Ingles can take the opposite corner. It may not be clear who starts games, gets the majority of guarding the “PF” at times, etc. But it seems obvious who is closing games. Donny and Conley running the PnR with Gobert and Ingles and Bojan knocking down corner 3’s.

That pin down action sounds like the same action we also ran for Korver often so Bojan will get all those same looks. I sure hope having a big that rolls hard will give all these guys space they aren’t accustomed to. We need efficiency. And I have a hard time believing the offense won’t be extremely efficient with that lineup. Donovan is the only one I’m really worried about. Which is a great problem to have.

Thanks again.
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Re: WOJ: Utah gets Bogdanovic 

Post#80 » by stitches » Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:00 am

Thanks for your observations, KqWIN. Very nice summary. Would you say he's 10% better than Crowder? (Lowe shot here)
KqWIN wrote:
Thinking about watching some Conley next...what are some good matchups to watch for Conley?

Ones where he guards Harden's behind... :oops:

But seriously... having in mind that we were eliminated by HOU twice now, we probably need to see how he does against them. The thing with the PG defense in the league today - it's depended a hell of a lot on the scheme you use and it's largely a support role rather than primary role. So yeah... I guess HOU game... maybe a game with a couple of good offensive wings - I would like to see how he does when switched on bigger player. Who would that be? PG13? Kawhi? LeBron? Butler?

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