WOJ: Jeff Green to UTA on vet MIN

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Re: WOJ: Jeff Green to UTA on vet MIN 

Post#41 » by erudite23 » Thu Jul 4, 2019 9:23 pm

Luigi wrote:
erudite23 wrote:And we'll need to do it for more than just 5-10 mins a game, otherwise we traded Favors and Jae for nothing. Those two defend the position far better than Green will. Favors provided huge value as a 2nd center and insurance policy for Rudy. Jae was a more rugged defender, better rebounder and better ball handler than Jeff Green. We just made a huge investment in Bojan. If his main contribution is to push Joe to the bench and keep him fresher, that doesn't move the needle hardly at all. You have to play them together, and not for short stretches, either. It's gotta be 20mpg at least that they are on the floor at the same time, preferably 25ish. Then once you give Georges some time and play Royce some spot minutes, that leaves between 15-20mpg for Green, which is about where I think he should be.

There's a good chance it doesn't go that way, but if that ends up being the case, we won't be in contention for ****. It will mean we spent 73m to make Joe Ingles a super sub. **** that.


I buy all of this. It's why I was more comfortable with Favors + Carroll than I am with Bojan + Green. But I do think that adding that much shooting will make things look very different. Conley and Bojan means 64 more minutes of top notch shooters on the roster. Wherever that fits in, it is a lot more than we have had.

I think we'll need Mitchell to be our best player and provide some iso scoring. He's not Harden or Leonard or James. That's why I preferred to stay an elite defensive team instead of trying to win shootouts with Bogdanovic. So we could very well be pretenders--a high scoring regular season offense, that comes up short in the playoffs.

I think we'll need 24 minutes from Green at the 4, 16 from Joe (that's the Joe/Bojan soft fluffy marshmallow forward lineup), and 8 from Naing (continuing in the marshmallow mode). The marshmallows will try to make up for their lack of toughness and size by chucking a lot of 3s. But that goes cold sometimes in the playoffs, especially without a genuine star to carry. So we'll see how much Mitchell can offer at that point, and how much Rudy can defend all by himself.


If this is true, we are going to be disappointed with how this season plays out.

I think that a lot of people are underestimating the degree to which the 4 position has changed in today’s NBA. The old “stretch 4” is now just “the 4.” If you can’t shoot at all, you don’t get on the court at that spot. And if you aren’t at least an average shooter from distance, they are looking to replace you.

Look at the list of 4 men in the WC. There aren’t many that I would be legitimately worried about Bojan or Joe guarding. Many of them are weak rebounders as well. I don’t see 25 mpg between Joe and Boji being a huge problem defensively. It will cause some issues on the boards. But the benefit of having an elite shooter who can attack close outs and play some pick and roll will be a HUGE boost to the offense. The benefit easily outweighs the cost.
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Re: WOJ: Jeff Green to UTA on vet MIN 

Post#42 » by Luigi » Thu Jul 4, 2019 10:14 pm

erudite23 wrote:If this is true, we are going to be disappointed with how this season plays out.

I think that a lot of people are underestimating the degree to which the 4 position has changed in today’s NBA. The old “stretch 4” is now just “the 4.” If you can’t shoot at all, you don’t get on the court at that spot. And if you aren’t at least an average shooter from distance, they are looking to replace you.

Look at the list of 4 men in the WC. There aren’t many that I would be legitimately worried about Bojan or Joe guarding. Many of them are weak rebounders as well. I don’t see 25 mpg between Joe and Boji being a huge problem defensively. It will cause some issues on the boards. But the benefit of having an elite shooter who can attack close outs and play some pick and roll will be a HUGE boost to the offense. The benefit easily outweighs the cost.


I think the 4s are bigger and tougher than my fellow Jazz fans wanna admit. We're used to thinking about the Thunder and Rockets, since that's all we see in the playoffs, and then thinking about the Warriors, as they beat the guys we lost to. Add to that the fact that we've had the luxury of being bigger and tougher than just about any team in the league for a long long time, and now we take it for granted. But the personnel have changed on both sides of that equation, and it will shock some of us. He's the latest list:

Lakers - James, Davis, Kuzma [Could add Cousins or McGee]
Nuggets - Millsap, Jokic
Blazers - Collins, Nurkic, Whiteside
Rockets - Tucker, Capela
Warriors - Green, Looney, Cauley-Stein
Thunder - Grant, Adams, Noel
Spurs - Aldridge, Poeltl, Gay
Pelicans - Zion, Favors
Kings - Bagley, Dedmon, Bjelica
Mavs - Porzingas, Powell, Boban

Sixers - Horford, Embiid, Harris (Simmons)
Bucks - Giannis, Lopez
Pacers - Sabonis, Turner
Raptors - Siakam, Gasol, Ibaka
Celtics - Morris?, Kanter
Knicks - Entire roster.

Draymond Green is very strong, and they added Cauley-Stein 7 foot 240 to their big man rotation. We won't see Green play center. Tucker is probably the easiest for us to cover, but he's certainly more rugged than our guy. Collins is listed at 7 foot, 235, he's also athletic, and has played center most of his career. He's their power forward now. Millsap is a lot stronger than our guys, and an absolute beast on the boards. Aldridge is obviously a big problem. Zion will have great nights against us, like he did against smaller guys in college. Bagley is listed at 6'11, 234. It is also possible that the Lakers sign Cousins if they miss on Leonard, meaning Davis at 4 more often, which he prefers even though he's 6'10, 253. Porzingas is 7'3, 240, Powell is 6'11 240, Boban is 7'3, 290. Not to mention the east. Horford is 6'10 245. Giannis is 6'11, 242, and dunks almost as much as Rudy. Sabonis is 6'11, 240, and likes to mix it up. Siakam is only 6'9 230, but he's long and likes to get inside and finish, and Ibaka 6'10 235 backs him up.

Joe Ingles is 6'8 226, Bojan Bogdanovic is 6'8, 216. That alone is massive difference. And neither has played any real time at 4 in their career. They aren't rugged thick framed dudes, they are soft perimeter players. If you wanna go small, you use a player like Tucker or Green or Morris or Crowder, who is very tough despite being smaller, and so can guard bigger players without giving much up for being small. The reason small ball lineps are more efficient isn't because bigger players are simply worse. It is because proper small ball lineups don't give up anything on defense, thanks to having undersized bulldogs at the 4, who then take advantage of their size mismatch on the other end. They make you pay on the other end by drawing your guy out or getting around the slower bigger guy. And if they're not tough, at least they have the reach to bother a shot from an NBA 4. Joe's standing reach is 8'9, Bojan's is 8'8, not spectacular. I'd bet the average is 9'. So I see Millsap,Green,Aldridge, Zion, Porzingas Horford, Giannis and Sabonis getting extra easy points on us on the regular, Collins, Grant, Bagley, Siakam, and Morris getting a lot of garbage man point on us. Many of them will just shot over us.

So if the plan is to go small without a bulldog (Joe and Bojan aren't), and simply to accept the mismatch in our defense, then we have a shootout on our hands, which is not my favorite strategy for the playoffs. It feels a little bit like the 2004 Mavs. Finley, Nowitzki, Antoine Walker, Nash, Antawn Jamison, Josh Howard, Marquis Daniels, Tony Delk. Don Nelson coaching style.

So we'll see. Maybe the offense is king in the new NBA. Or maybe Gobert can do it alone. Or maybe small ball can be that small, but I think we'll need Green's bulk for about half a game every night. And maybe Mitchell is ready to turn it on. I'm glad we're going for it in Gobert's prime and Mitchell's rookie year. That is very good news.
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Re: WOJ: Jeff Green to UTA on vet MIN 

Post#43 » by dr0welf » Thu Jul 4, 2019 11:18 pm

Man this really isn't that big of a deal. We have a few options depending on what our opponent challenges us with. If this becomes our new weekness it is definitely something you can fix if it is that big of an issue. But Ed Davis can play some 4 as well if we need some defense there.
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Re: WOJ: Jeff Green to UTA on vet MIN 

Post#44 » by Luigi » Thu Jul 4, 2019 11:23 pm

dr0welf wrote:Man this really isn't that big of a deal. We have a few options depending on what our opponent challenges us with. If this becomes our new weekness it is definitely something you can fix if it is that big of an issue. But Ed Davis can play some 4 as well if we need some defense there.


My whole case explains why I think the board is not seeing how big a deal our size at 4 is. I think Ed Davis has a baseline of minutes very well established already. He's not much more than a backup center. What options or fixes do you see?
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Re: WOJ: Jeff Green to UTA on vet MIN 

Post#45 » by dr0welf » Thu Jul 4, 2019 11:34 pm

Luigi wrote:
dr0welf wrote:Man this really isn't that big of a deal. We have a few options depending on what our opponent challenges us with. If this becomes our new weekness it is definitely something you can fix if it is that big of an issue. But Ed Davis can play some 4 as well if we need some defense there.


My whole case explains why I think the board is not seeing how big a deal our size at 4 is. I think Ed Davis has a baseline of minutes very well established already. He's not much more than a backup center. What options or fixes do you see?


I don't see an issue really. I see a soft point in our defense that some teams will try to take advantage of. I also see a controlled disadvantage, so we know where they will try to attack so you can plan for it. I see Bogie as being able to defend the stretch bigs as they will rarely try to post up. Not as many 4's out their can play with their back to the basket. And when we do run into someone then we have Ed's length to give them problems. Niang and Green can both work on the backups.

If it becomes a glaring hole, the defense will adjust a little to where Gobert takes on a little more to mitigate the issue. If we still can't fix it their are plenty of big guys who can put a body on someone. Willie Reed is one of those that can body up some of the big 4's out their. I think he will make our team.

Honestly I'm just not going to react to ghosts until I see them as needing attention. And you make a great point as something we need to be cautious of during the season, but again until it rears its ugly head lets enjoy this offseason team build. Zanic and co have pulled together a solid team and brought hope and a change of scenery to our basketball style. I'm looking forward to the offensive onslaughts about to be delivered onto our competition.
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Re: WOJ: Jeff Green to UTA on vet MIN 

Post#46 » by Luigi » Thu Jul 4, 2019 11:41 pm

I'm going to keep developing this list until it sets in. :lol: NBA players are huge for a reason.

Lakers - James (6'8, 250), Davis (6'10, 253), Kuzma [Could add Cousins or McGee]
Nuggets - Millsap (6'8, 246), Jokic
Blazers - Collins (7'0, 235), Nurkic, Whiteside
Rockets - Tucker (6'6, 245), Capela
Warriors - Green (6'7, 230), Looney, Cauley-Stein
Thunder - Grant (6'9, 220), Adams, Noel
Spurs - Aldridge (6'11, 260), Poeltl, Gay
Pelicans - Zion (6'7, 284), Favors
Kings - Bagley (6'11, 234), Dedmon, Bjelica
Mavs - Porzingas(7'3, 240), Powell (6'11, 240), Boban

Sixers - Horford (6'10, 245), Embiid, Harris (Simmons)
Bucks - Giannis (6'11, 242), Lopez
Pacers - Sabonis (6'11, 240), Turner
Raptors - Siakam (6'9, 230), Gasol, Ibaka
Celtics - Morris (6'9, 235)?, Kanter
Knicks - Entire roster.

Joe Ingles (6'8, 226)
Bojan Bogdanovic (6'8, 216).
Jeff Green (6'9, 235)


Guys, Joe and Bojan are not 4s, even by small 4 standards. Jeff Green makes the cut. We'll give Green his normal 24 minutes there, and Ed Davis his normal 16-18 minutes as backup 5. That's the minutes they've been NBA worthy for for multiple seasons now.
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Re: WOJ: Jeff Green to UTA on vet MIN 

Post#47 » by dr0welf » Fri Jul 5, 2019 12:53 am

Luigi wrote:I'm going to keep developing this list until it sets in. :lol: NBA players are huge for a reason.

Lakers - James (6'8, 250), Davis (6'10, 253), Kuzma [Could add Cousins or McGee]
Nuggets - Millsap (6'8, 246), Jokic
Blazers - Collins (7'0, 235), Nurkic, Whiteside
Rockets - Tucker (6'6, 245), Capela
Warriors - Green (6'7, 230), Looney, Cauley-Stein
Thunder - Grant (6'9, 220), Adams, Noel
Spurs - Aldridge (6'11, 260), Poeltl, Gay
Pelicans - Zion (6'7, 284), Favors
Kings - Bagley (6'11, 234), Dedmon, Bjelica
Mavs - Porzingas(7'3, 240), Powell (6'11, 240), Boban

Sixers - Horford (6'10, 245), Embiid, Harris (Simmons)
Bucks - Giannis (6'11, 242), Lopez
Pacers - Sabonis (6'11, 240), Turner
Raptors - Siakam (6'9, 230), Gasol, Ibaka
Celtics - Morris (6'9, 235)?, Kanter
Knicks - Entire roster.

Joe Ingles (6'8, 226)
Bojan Bogdanovic (6'8, 216).
Jeff Green (6'9, 235)


Guys, Joe and Bojan are not 4s, even by small 4 standards. Jeff Green makes the cut. We'll give Green his normal 24 minutes there, and Ed Davis his normal 16-18 minutes as backup 5. That's the minutes they've been NBA worthy for for multiple seasons now.


Brantley is 6'7" 250lbs
Reed is 6'11" 245lbs

Both on the Summer League trying to make the team. Other players are available still that would fix your nervous twitch here.

Dante Cunningham 6'8" 230lbs
Kenneth Faried
Jamychel Green
Amir Johnson
Jonas Jarebko
Jonathan Motley
Marcus Morris
Donatas Motiejunas
Mike Muscala
Alan Williams

To name a few, most of these will get league minimum (not all). Point is, if the FO was worried about the size of all the other teams they have options to fill in the position. But report is they want another shooter, I'm guessing they are not worried about the size. Actually, we had 2 bigs playing and the teams we struggled with were Houston and GSW each played a smaller PF that stretched our defense (Tucker, Green). I don't think this is a big issue.
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Re: WOJ: Jeff Green to UTA on vet MIN 

Post#48 » by Luigi » Fri Jul 5, 2019 1:02 am

dr0welf wrote:
Luigi wrote:I'm going to keep developing this list until it sets in. :lol: NBA players are huge for a reason.

Lakers - James (6'8, 250), Davis (6'10, 253), Kuzma [Could add Cousins or McGee]
Nuggets - Millsap (6'8, 246), Jokic
Blazers - Collins (7'0, 235), Nurkic, Whiteside
Rockets - Tucker (6'6, 245), Capela
Warriors - Green (6'7, 230), Looney, Cauley-Stein
Thunder - Grant (6'9, 220), Adams, Noel
Spurs - Aldridge (6'11, 260), Poeltl, Gay
Pelicans - Zion (6'7, 284), Favors
Kings - Bagley (6'11, 234), Dedmon, Bjelica
Mavs - Porzingas(7'3, 240), Powell (6'11, 240), Boban

Sixers - Horford (6'10, 245), Embiid, Harris (Simmons)
Bucks - Giannis (6'11, 242), Lopez
Pacers - Sabonis (6'11, 240), Turner
Raptors - Siakam (6'9, 230), Gasol, Ibaka
Celtics - Morris (6'9, 235)?, Kanter
Knicks - Entire roster.

Joe Ingles (6'8, 226)
Bojan Bogdanovic (6'8, 216).
Jeff Green (6'9, 235)


Guys, Joe and Bojan are not 4s, even by small 4 standards. Jeff Green makes the cut. We'll give Green his normal 24 minutes there, and Ed Davis his normal 16-18 minutes as backup 5. That's the minutes they've been NBA worthy for for multiple seasons now.


Brantley is 6'7" 250lbs
Reed is 6'11" 245lbs

Both on the Summer League trying to make the team. Other players are available still that would fix your nervous twitch here.

Dante Cunningham 6'8" 230lbs
Kenneth Faried
Jamychel Green
Amir Johnson
Jonas Jarebko
Jonathan Motley
Marcus Morris
Donatas Motiejunas
Mike Muscala
Alan Williams

To name a few, most of these will get league minimum (not all). Point is, if the FO was worried about the size of all the other teams they have options to fill in the position. But report is they want another shooter, I'm guessing they are not worried about the size. Actually, we had 2 bigs playing and the teams we struggled with were Houston and GSW each played a smaller PF that stretched our defense (Tucker, Green). I don't think this is a big issue.


I think we are trying to be a contender. Contenders don't rely on summer league guys to patch weaknesses that will be exploited in playoff series. I have been calling for Faried for a long time now.

I think Jazz fans aren't appreciating what it means to lose Favors, and what it means to make a deep run in the playoffs (besides simply not knowing how big most NBA 4s are). Houston didn't stretch our defense, our defense was very effective against them. We failed to hit shots with Rubio and Crowder on the floor. Tucker is also probably the easiest cover for us now. Now we have the opposite problem for all the other playoff teams.

We are going to see a lot of matchups, and a few of those teams are going to have a major size advantage on us at a couple positions. Don't you remember what the Lakers did to Boozer and Okur in the old days when the playoffs rolled around? These are the kinds of mismatches that sink a playoff roster. That's probably the number one worry we should all have this season, not a nervous twitch lol.
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Re: WOJ: Jeff Green to UTA on vet MIN 

Post#49 » by CAE15 » Fri Jul 5, 2019 2:49 am

Luigi wrote:I'm going to keep developing this list until it sets in. NBA players are huge for a reason.

Lakers - James (6'8, 250), Davis (6'10, 253), Kuzma [Could add Cousins or McGee]
Nuggets - Millsap (6'8, 246), Jokic
Blazers - Collins (7'0, 235), Nurkic, Whiteside
Rockets - Tucker (6'6, 245), Capela
Warriors - Green (6'7, 230), Looney, Cauley-Stein
Thunder - Grant (6'9, 220), Adams, Noel
Spurs - Aldridge (6'11, 260), Poeltl, Gay
Pelicans - Zion (6'7, 284), Favors
Kings - Bagley (6'11, 234), Dedmon, Bjelica
Mavs - Porzingas(7'3, 240), Powell (6'11, 240), Boban

Sixers - Horford (6'10, 245), Embiid, Harris (Simmons)
Bucks - Giannis (6'11, 242), Lopez
Pacers - Sabonis (6'11, 240), Turner
Raptors - Siakam (6'9, 230), Gasol, Ibaka
Celtics - Morris (6'9, 235)?, Kanter
Knicks - Entire roster.

Joe Ingles (6'8, 226)
Bojan Bogdanovic (6'8, 216).
Jeff Green (6'9, 235)


Guys, Joe and Bojan are not 4s, even by small 4 standards. Jeff Green makes the cut. We'll give Green his normal 24 minutes there, and Ed Davis his normal 16-18 minutes as backup 5. That's the minutes they've been NBA worthy for for multiple seasons now.
More often than not teams will be trying to matchup with our lineup than us matching theirs. The advantages of these big guys powering their way through our 4s, leaves them so disadvantaged on the offensive end. Not to mention where they would make a difference is in the post game, okay so now the team is playing the jazz' set halfcourt defense and that's even assuming that these guys can play in the post and have another center threat who can as well; because Rudy is going to almost always take on the best post player. Jazz can put these big lineups in a blender whether it be man to man which no one seems to play nowadays or switching defenses and create high efficiency shots and then the other team will alter their lineup to match ours, just because they might get a couple more rebounds than us doesn't mean they're going to sacrifice the defensive weaknesses. They aren't able to defend in space and the jazz will hopefully be carving them up on the offensive side but even if we aren't, we can play Ed Davis next to Rudy if needed.

Also how many teams even take advantage of when one of these bigs mentioned gets switched on to a smaller player? It's not very high. Post game is not much of a threat in today's league where these bigger 4s would benefit from a smaller defender. I just don't see it as a problem. Honestly the thing we will most likely miss most of Favors is his great roll game on the offensive side. What Favors gave us defensively is not understated. But Davis will be able to give us some of those defensive things.

Favors played on average less than 10 minutes with Rudy Gobert each game. That's really not that hard to replace. And yes, I know Jae is stronger than Green, Ingles or Bogdanovic but I don't think the drop off is as severe as one may think it might be, we replaced jae's strength with Green's length, Jeff has a nearly 5 inch longer wing span than Jae

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Re: WOJ: Jeff Green to UTA on vet MIN 

Post#50 » by Luigi » Fri Jul 5, 2019 4:14 am

CAE15 wrote:More often than not teams will be trying to matchup with our lineup than us matching theirs. The advantages of these big guys powering their way through our 4s, leaves them so disadvantaged on the offensive end. Not to mention where they would make a difference is in the post game, okay so now the team is playing the jazz' set halfcourt defense and that's even assuming that these guys can play in the post and have another center threat who can as well; because Rudy is going to almost always take on the best post player. Jazz can put these big lineups in a blender whether it be man to man which no one seems to play nowadays or switching defenses and create high efficiency shots and then the other team will alter their lineup to match ours, just because they might get a couple more rebounds than us doesn't mean they're going to sacrifice the defensive weaknesses. They aren't able to defend in space and the jazz will hopefully be carving them up on the offensive side but even if we aren't, we can play Ed Davis next to Rudy if needed.

I hope you are right about us dictating the sizes. I doubt because that usually goes with the bulldog undersized 4. But if we can do that, we'll be better for it.

Also how many teams even take advantage of when one of these bigs mentioned gets switched on to a smaller player? It's not very high. Post game is not much of a threat in today's league where these bigger 4s would benefit from a smaller defender. I just don't see it as a problem. Honestly the thing we will most likely miss most of Favors is his great roll game on the offensive side. What Favors gave us defensively is not understated. But Davis will be able to give us some of those defensive things.


I think the advantage happens in a total offense more than in just a back to the basket post up. We'll see though. Aldridge, Zion, Millsap, Dray Green, Anthony Davis, Giannis, Porzingas, Horford, and Sabonis will have absolutely no trouble crushing Joe or Bojan in a small ball lineups. Will they give up more on the other end in a playoff game? Hard to say. But I don't really trust Ed Davis over 18 minutes a night, that's been his number forever.

Favors played on average less than 10 minutes with Rudy Gobert each game. That's really not that hard to replace. And yes, I know Jae is stronger than Green, Ingles or Bogdanovic but I don't think the drop off is as severe as one may think it might be, we replaced jae's strength with Green's length, Jeff has a nearly 5 inch longer wing span than Jae


Yes, Jae had the bulldog mode for small ball. I expect 24 minutes of something similar from Green. I'm very happy we added him. Part of my point is that he's going to get minutes because of the size issue. Jeff Green is an undersized 4, but he is a 4 (unlike Joe or Bojan). He's been guarding bigger guys since his sophomore year, he's longer, stronger, and tougher than the alternatives. We'll go very small with Joe at 4 to close games (24 minutes of extra small ball total), and I hope it works.

At least we have a reliable anchor on the floor at all times. Let's cross our fingers that Gobert doesn't miss more than 10 games (even years haven't been good for his game totals :lol: ).
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Re: WOJ: Jeff Green to UTA on vet MIN 

Post#51 » by stitches » Fri Jul 5, 2019 4:37 am

To me the strength related issues are close to zero at the 4 position performance-wise on the floor. I think they can hold the position just fine. Noone is playing postups anymore and we have the best weakside help defender in the league. The thing that we have to worry more about is our ability to get Ingles and Bogdanovic healthy and in good condition to the post-season. Even though I don't think the performance will suffer significantly, I do think the wear and tear when playing bigger players that are incentivized to play physical against you(even if it ultimately won't affect the play too much) can affect their ability to stay healthy and in good condition by the end of the season. That's why I think getting Jeff Green is very important for this team. It's just another body to throw at opposing 4s and absorb some of the punishment of the position and help you preserve Ingles and Bogdanovic.
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Re: WOJ: Jeff Green to UTA on vet MIN 

Post#52 » by Luigi » Fri Jul 5, 2019 4:46 am

Some of them can post up with success (Aldridge, Giannis, Zion, Anthony Davis, Porzingas, Bagley, Horford, and Sabonis, thank goodness most are in the east, but watch out for Davis if they add McGee or Cousins), others will just face up and initiate contact on the smaller defender to create advantages (Lebron, Dray Green, Millsap, Tucker, Grant, Siakam, Bagley, Collins, Morris, but also Zion, Giannis, Anthony Davis). Gobert can help with both of those issues, but we'll be testing him to see how much he can do alone.

Yes, I'm happy we have Green. I'm mostly worried about the time Green is sitting, and Joe/Bojan/Niang are taking power forward duties.

You bring up a good point about injury for the small forwards. Same goes for Gobert. I loved being a tough, physical team. It's been Jazz MO for a long long time, from Gobert, Favors, and Crowder, to Boozer and Okur, Millsap and Alberto Grande and Demarre Carroll, Malone and Ostertag and big dog, all the way back to the Eaton days. I think we'll be a little surprised to see the difference when we don't have a toughness and ruggedness advantage that we have taken for granted since the beginning.
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Re: WOJ: Jeff Green to UTA on vet MIN 

Post#53 » by KqWIN » Fri Jul 5, 2019 2:08 pm

stitches wrote:To me the strength related issues are close to zero at the 4 position performance-wise on the floor. I think they can hold the position just fine. Noone is playing postups anymore and we have the best weakside help defender in the league. The thing that we have to worry more about is our ability to get Ingles and Bogdanovic healthy and in good condition to the post-season. Even though I don't think the performance will suffer significantly, I do think the wear and tear when playing bigger players that are incentivized to play physical against you(even if it ultimately won't affect the play too much) can affect their ability to stay healthy and in good condition by the end of the season. That's why I think getting Jeff Green is very important for this team. It's just another body to throw at opposing 4s and absorb some of the punishment of the position and help you preserve Ingles and Bogdanovic.


I feel the same way. I don’t even think that going from the 3 to the 4 is much more physically demanding. I think that’s more of a factor for small ball C’s who suddenly have to box out and deal with a roll man. But like you said, no one really plays that power game at the 4. Also, the strength difference between Crowder versus Bogey and Green is minimal if anything.

It’s most important that we got bodies to get through the regular season. Jeff Green isn’t a great player, but you can depend on him to soak up minutes during the season.
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Re: WOJ: Jeff Green to UTA on vet MIN 

Post#54 » by Crunch 99 » Sat Jul 6, 2019 1:04 am

"What Jeff Green brings to the Utah Jazz", by Andy Larsen
https://www.sltrib.com/sports/2019/07/04/what-jeff-green-brings/
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Re: WOJ: Jeff Green to UTA on vet MIN 

Post#55 » by zero24gravity » Sat Jul 6, 2019 6:10 am

Crunch 99 wrote:What Jeff Green brings to the Utah Jazz, by Andy Larsen
https://www.sltrib.com/sports/2019/07/04/what-jeff-green-brings/


For the vet minimum, and considering the Jazz had an enormous hole at PF prior to Green being signed, I'm ok with Larsen's assessment. The Jazz have 3 All Star caliber starters + Ingles and Bodonavic, who are above average starters and bad-@$$ shooters. They only need Green to be decent in order for the Jazz to be in the title hunt, and that is what Green is..... decent, capable, not out of place as a starter, but not spectacular.

While he wasn't at the top of my PF signee list, I'm certainly happy.
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Re: WOJ: Jeff Green to UTA on vet MIN 

Post#56 » by Monky15 » Sat Jul 6, 2019 1:53 pm

Stanley Johnson could be a good reclamation project, along with Deyonte Davies and Jarrel Martin. The Pelicans let Diallo go also. Udoh is still around. Parker also. Nothing earth shattering but maybe they can get one to stick. Would love it if they could turn Johnson into a serviceable player.

If Ingles is coming off the bench then he should get a fair chunk of the backup pg, sf minutes, that 28 right there, maybe he plays 10 at pf freeing up 6 minutes at sf for O'Neal who ends up with 20. 38 minutes left at pf, 28 for Green and 10 for Davis or someone they sign or Niang.
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Re: WOJ: Jeff Green to UTA on vet MIN 

Post#57 » by ForeverRDjazz » Sat Jul 6, 2019 3:49 pm

Luigi wrote:
dr0welf wrote:Man this really isn't that big of a deal. We have a few options depending on what our opponent challenges us with. If this becomes our new weekness it is definitely something you can fix if it is that big of an issue. But Ed Davis can play some 4 as well if we need some defense there.


My whole case explains why I think the board is not seeing how big a deal our size at 4 is. I think Ed Davis has a baseline of minutes very well established already. He's not much more than a backup center. What options or fixes do you see?

I agree. Your afraid of size plug Ed into the 4 they go smaller plug Green in and if they go real small plug in Joe. Jazz have many options to choose from. Last year people complained Favs getting time at the 4 and Jazz was still top team on defense with favs out of position. Ed will play few minutes at the 4 and not sure will need much more than 5 to ten minutes at the 4. Lot will depend on who where playing each night? With Bogey Joe Spider and Conley bombing 3s and PnRs there will become lot a pressure on other teams D. Gonna be fun watching Quin make adjustment next year.
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Re: WOJ: Jeff Green to UTA on vet MIN 

Post#58 » by zero24gravity » Mon Jul 8, 2019 9:08 pm

Monky15 wrote:Stanley Johnson could be a good reclamation project, along with Deyonte Davies and Jarrel Martin. The Pelicans let Diallo go also. Udoh is still around. Parker also. Nothing earth shattering but maybe they can get one to stick. Would love it if they could turn Johnson into a serviceable player.

If Ingles is coming off the bench then he should get a fair chunk of the backup pg, sf minutes, that 28 right there, maybe he plays 10 at pf freeing up 6 minutes at sf for O'Neal who ends up with 20. 38 minutes left at pf, 28 for Green and 10 for Davis or someone they sign or Niang.


I've thrown Johnson out there as a guy I'd like, as well. But I think with the Green signing, they may not be looking at a player like him anymore (if they ever were).

EDIT: I missed that Johnson will be going to Toronto, so moot point, I suppose.

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