WOJ: Jeff Green to UTA on vet MIN

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Re: WOJ: Jeff Green to UTA on vet MIN 

Post#21 » by Luigi » Wed Jul 3, 2019 6:48 am

mudsak wrote:
Luigi wrote:Glad to have him.

Too early rotation:

Conley (32) / Mitchel (16) / Wright-Foreman
Mitchell (18) / O'Neale (30) / Exum [until we see if he can play]
Bogdanovic (32) / Ingles (16) / Oni
Green (24) / Ingles (16) / Niang (8) / Brantley
Gobert (32) / Davis (16) / Bradley

I still want Thabo back at the minimum. Or maybe a Kenneth Faried type. We need a high energy look for a few minutes at 4 instead of Naing (lots of our guys do what he does now).


Niang shot over 40% from 3, and hustled hard every time he was on the court.


Sounds a lot like Joe and Bojan to me. I like Niang, but I think the team needs a different look. If Niang keeps the minutes, I'll be happy for him.
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Re: WOJ: Jeff Green to UTA on vet MIN 

Post#22 » by UtahJazzFan88 » Wed Jul 3, 2019 10:19 am

KDBG wrote:We got a guy who averaged 12.3 ppg last season, who will be our starting 4, for the gd minimum. Zanik is a boss.


Agreed. Green should be starting and Ingles should be coming off the bench as a 6th man.
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Re: WOJ: Jeff Green to UTA on vet MIN 

Post#23 » by stitches » Wed Jul 3, 2019 10:33 am

This is a great one. About as good as you can expect to get on a vet min.
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Re: WOJ: Jeff Green to UTA on vet MIN 

Post#24 » by Tom349 » Wed Jul 3, 2019 12:20 pm

Crowder replacement for 4m less a season. Not as tough/strong but far more athletic. Interesting comparison, in the clutch this past season Crowder shot 2 of 13 (15.4%) from 3 and 8 of 21(38.1%) overall compared to Green who shot 5 of 12 (41.7%) and 12/22 overall (54.5%) whilst going a perfect 10 for 10 from the free throw line. Obvious small sample size but if Green was to be finishing games then if he could replicate that shooting then that would be a significant upgrade over what Crowder was providing.
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Re: WOJ: Jeff Green to UTA on vet MIN 

Post#25 » by KDBG » Wed Jul 3, 2019 12:45 pm

I just read that Jeff Green had more dunks than Donovan last season. We are about to shatter some team dunk records.
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Re: WOJ: Jeff Green to UTA on vet MIN 

Post#26 » by Crunch 99 » Wed Jul 3, 2019 12:48 pm

KqWIN wrote:Nobody can complain about this deal! What a great get. I think he'll be the starter.


UtahJazzFan88 wrote:Agreed. Green should be starting and Ingles should be coming off the bench as a 6th man.


I worry about Green's defense and rebounding. Green's rebounding is almost as weak as Bojan's and Ingle's. Our starting lineup with Green will be quite a step down from rebounding prowess compared to last year's starting lineup. Our offense is going to be something that will have to be reckoned with though, making a net positive overall. Go Jazz!

If Thabo becomes available on a vet minimum, I would be all over it.

2018/19 Reb/36 mins

Ed Davis 17.3
Gobert 14.5
Favs 11.4
Udoh 10.1
Bradley 10.0 G League stat
Thabo 7.3
Crowder 6.4
O'Neale 6.1
Niang 6.1
Green 5.3
Bojan 4.7
Rubio 4.6
Ingles 4.6
DM 4.4
Korver 4.4
Exum 3.7
Conley 3.4
Mudiay 3.3
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Re: WOJ: Jeff Green to UTA on vet MIN 

Post#27 » by UtahJazzFan88 » Wed Jul 3, 2019 12:56 pm

Crunch 99 wrote:
KqWIN wrote:Nobody can complain about this deal! What a great get. I think he'll be the starter.


UtahJazzFan88 wrote:Agreed. Green should be starting and Ingles should be coming off the bench as a 6th man.


I worry about Green's defense and rebounding. Green's rebounding is almost as weak as Bojan's and Ingle's. Our starting lineup with Green will be quite a step down from rebounding prowess compared to last year's starting lineup. Our offense is going to be something that will have to be reckoned with though, making a net positive overall. Go Jazz!

2018/19 Reb/36 mins

Ed Davis 17.3
Gobert 14.5
Favs 11.4
Thabo 7.3
Crowder 6.4
O'Neale 6.1
Niang 6.1
Green 5.3
Bojan 4.7
Rubio 4.6
Ingles 4.6
DM 4.4
Korver 4.4
Exum 3.7
Conley 3.4
Mudiay 3.3


Just as an FYI, just because Green is starting doesn't mean he deserves more minutes than Ingles or Bojan. I just think it's necessary to have him start at PF.
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Re: WOJ: Jeff Green to UTA on vet MIN 

Post#28 » by dr0welf » Wed Jul 3, 2019 1:06 pm

Green is a stud, glad to have him onboard. Our depth is actually filled in well after the trade.
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Re: WOJ: Jeff Green to UTA on vet MIN 

Post#29 » by KqWIN » Wed Jul 3, 2019 1:08 pm

Crunch 99 wrote:
KqWIN wrote:Nobody can complain about this deal! What a great get. I think he'll be the starter.


UtahJazzFan88 wrote:Agreed. Green should be starting and Ingles should be coming off the bench as a 6th man.


I worry about Green's defense and rebounding. Green's rebounding is almost as weak as Bojan's and Ingle's. Our starting lineup with Green will be quite a step down from rebounding prowess compared to last year's starting lineup. Our offense is going to be something that will have to be reckoned with though, making a net positive overall. Go Jazz!

If Thabo becomes available on a vet minimum, I would be all over it.

2018/19 Reb/36 mins

Ed Davis 17.3
Gobert 14.5
Favs 11.4
Udoh 10.1
Bradley 10.0 G League Stat
Thabo 7.3
Crowder 6.4
O'Neale 6.1
Niang 6.1
Green 5.3
Bojan 4.7
Rubio 4.6
Ingles 4.6
DM 4.4
Korver 4.4
Exum 3.7
Conley 3.4
Mudiay 3.3


Fair. Jeff Green is surprisingly one of the worst rebounders at the position. Rebounding is definitely a concern of mine. He's got a big body to defend bigger players though.
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Re: WOJ: Jeff Green to UTA on vet MIN 

Post#30 » by stitches » Wed Jul 3, 2019 1:16 pm

Read on Twitter
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Re: WOJ: Jeff Green to UTA on vet MIN 

Post#31 » by Crunch 99 » Wed Jul 3, 2019 1:46 pm

stitches wrote:
Read on Twitter


Well that is a very nice endorsement from one of the all time greats!

I don't mean to be a negative nellie, but his season to season three point shooting percentage has been all over the place, similar to Crowder's. Crowder is a career .339 3pt % and Green is a career .333 %. Hopefully we catch Green on one of his good three point shooting seasons!
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Re: WOJ: Jeff Green to UTA on vet MIN 

Post#32 » by zero24gravity » Wed Jul 3, 2019 6:25 pm

Wasn't my top choice as a PF-type, but there's no way you'll hear me complaining. The Jazz have really knocked this offseason out of the park. Green as a 25mpg starter sounds about right, and is a bargain contract considering the role he'll have for the team.
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Re: WOJ: Jeff Green to UTA on vet MIN 

Post#33 » by erudite23 » Wed Jul 3, 2019 6:31 pm

Love the signing.

If Green gets 25mpg this year will have likely gone off the rails somewhere. He needs to be high teens. Both Bojan and Joe are far better players than him and Royce O'Neal is probably better as well. He gives you some size at the 4 spot that can also shoot and be a versatile defender, but he's not going to be part of your core group of players. Conley/DM/Joe/Bojie/Rudy with the possible sub of Royce at the 3 or 4 depending on the situation will be the crew that carries us.

Rebounding will definitely be a concern, and defending players like LBJ or Kawhi will be difficult without Jae or someone like him. But that's hella skilled lineup around the best diver in the world. That lineup will score like gang busters.
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Re: WOJ: Jeff Green to UTA on vet MIN 

Post#34 » by Luigi » Wed Jul 3, 2019 6:41 pm

For all of the comparisons to Crowder, here's the one that matters:

Crowder - 2/15.6
Green - 1/2.5
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Re: WOJ: Jeff Green to UTA on vet MIN 

Post#35 » by zero24gravity » Wed Jul 3, 2019 6:47 pm

erudite23 wrote:Love the signing.

If Green gets 25mpg this year will have likely gone off the rails somewhere. He needs to be high teens. Both Bojan and Joe are far better players than him and Royce O'Neal is probably better as well. He gives you some size at the 4 spot that can also shoot and be a versatile defender, but he's not going to be part of your core group of players. Conley/DM/Joe/Bojie/Rudy with the possible sub of Royce at the 3 or 4 depending on the situation will be the crew that carries us.

Rebounding will definitely be a concern, and defending players like LBJ or Kawhi will be difficult without Jae or someone like him. But that's hella skilled lineup around the best diver in the world. That lineup will score like gang busters.



Jae Crowder played 27mpg last season with Favors on the roster. Green getting near that number of minutes as a starter (which it looks like he'll be) without anyone else on the roster who really can/should be playing a lot of minutes at that position is far from unexpected or "off the rails". FYI, he played 27mpg last year & is a career 30mpg player.

Yes, I expect there to be a lot of unique combo's on the floor for the Jazz, including stretches with Joe or O'Neale at the "four" (or even an occasional big line-up with Davis & Gobert), but Green will likely still play about half the minutes at that position, IMO.
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Re: WOJ: Jeff Green to UTA on vet MIN 

Post#36 » by erudite23 » Wed Jul 3, 2019 7:03 pm

zero24gravity wrote:
erudite23 wrote:Love the signing.

If Green gets 25mpg this year will have likely gone off the rails somewhere. He needs to be high teens. Both Bojan and Joe are far better players than him and Royce O'Neal is probably better as well. He gives you some size at the 4 spot that can also shoot and be a versatile defender, but he's not going to be part of your core group of players. Conley/DM/Joe/Bojie/Rudy with the possible sub of Royce at the 3 or 4 depending on the situation will be the crew that carries us.

Rebounding will definitely be a concern, and defending players like LBJ or Kawhi will be difficult without Jae or someone like him. But that's hella skilled lineup around the best diver in the world. That lineup will score like gang busters.



Jae Crowder played 27mpg last season with Favors on the roster. Green getting near that number of minutes as a starter (which it looks like he'll be) without anyone else on the roster who really can/should be playing a lot of minutes at that position is far from unexpected or "off the rails". FYI, he played 27mpg last year & is a career 30mpg player.

Yes, I expect there to be a lot of unique combo's on the floor for the Jazz, including stretches with Joe or O'Neale at the "four" (or even an occasional big line-up with Davis & Gobert), but Green will likely still play about half the minutes at that position, IMO.


He played 27 mpg on a **** Wizards team and 22mpg the year before on a perilously thin Cavs team.

The Jazz have lots of guys that can give spot minutes at the 4 (Royce, Joe, Bojan, Davis) and they have Niang, who was really starting to come into his own at the end of last season.

Green is not a starting caliber player or anything close to it (as evidenced by his contract). If he is playing starter minutes or anything close to it, that means we are either relying too heavily on him OR (really small chance) that he's way overperforming after years of well established production levels.

If we have to rely on him for 25mpg, that essentially means that 1) Quinn is making a mistake, 2) Bojan and Joe prove incapable of holding the fort down at the position beyond very small stretches or 3) Georges is out of the rotation. Or some combination of the 3. If that happens, we for sure won't be in contention to win the WC.

We will not make the Finals if Jeff Green is playing that much. Book it.
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Re: WOJ: Jeff Green to UTA on vet MIN 

Post#37 » by zero24gravity » Wed Jul 3, 2019 7:24 pm

erudite23 wrote:
zero24gravity wrote:
erudite23 wrote:Love the signing.

If Green gets 25mpg this year will have likely gone off the rails somewhere. He needs to be high teens. Both Bojan and Joe are far better players than him and Royce O'Neal is probably better as well. He gives you some size at the 4 spot that can also shoot and be a versatile defender, but he's not going to be part of your core group of players. Conley/DM/Joe/Bojie/Rudy with the possible sub of Royce at the 3 or 4 depending on the situation will be the crew that carries us.

Rebounding will definitely be a concern, and defending players like LBJ or Kawhi will be difficult without Jae or someone like him. But that's hella skilled lineup around the best diver in the world. That lineup will score like gang busters.



Jae Crowder played 27mpg last season with Favors on the roster. Green getting near that number of minutes as a starter (which it looks like he'll be) without anyone else on the roster who really can/should be playing a lot of minutes at that position is far from unexpected or "off the rails". FYI, he played 27mpg last year & is a career 30mpg player.

Yes, I expect there to be a lot of unique combo's on the floor for the Jazz, including stretches with Joe or O'Neale at the "four" (or even an occasional big line-up with Davis & Gobert), but Green will likely still play about half the minutes at that position, IMO.


He played 27 mpg on a **** Wizards team and 22mpg the year before on a perilously thin Cavs team.

The Jazz have lots of guys that can give spot minutes at the 4 (Royce, Joe, Bojan, Davis) and they have Niang, who was really starting to come into his own at the end of last season.

Green is not a starting caliber player or anything close to it (as evidenced by his contract). If he is playing starter minutes or anything close to it, that means we are either relying too heavily on him OR (really small chance) that he's way overperforming after years of well established production levels.

If we have to rely on him for 25mpg, that essentially means that 1) Quinn is making a mistake, 2) Bojan and Joe prove incapable of holding the fort down at the position beyond very small stretches or 3) Georges is out of the rotation. Or some combination of the 3. If that happens, we for sure won't be in contention to win the WC.

We will not make the Finals if Jeff Green is playing that much. Book it.


I'll agree to disagree. With the make-up of the team, Green and Niang are literally the only "4's" on the roster. If you're asking players who are better suited to be SG's than PF's to play long stretches at PF, they'll be in a worse situation. It'll be fun to see all the combo's Q uses, but "book it" that Green will get the majority of PF minutes, and that'll be the best option the team has. Every team has a weakest spot, this just happens to be the Jazz's.
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Re: WOJ: Jeff Green to UTA on vet MIN 

Post#38 » by Luigi » Wed Jul 3, 2019 7:41 pm

erudite23 wrote:Green is not a starting caliber player or anything close to it (as evidenced by his contract). If he is playing starter minutes or anything close to it, that means we are either relying too heavily on him OR (really small chance) that he's way overperforming after years of well established production levels.

If we have to rely on him for 25mpg, that essentially means that 1) Quinn is making a mistake, 2) Bojan and Joe prove incapable of holding the fort down at the position beyond very small stretches or 3) Georges is out of the rotation. Or some combination of the 3. If that happens, we for sure won't be in contention to win the WC.

We will not make the Finals if Jeff Green is playing that much. Book it.


I like Jeff Green playing 24 at power forward for us a lot more than Bojan or Ingles playing that many. 2017-2018 Cleveland was a title contender. Of course, they had Lebron James. But Green did a decent job at being big. He's been guarding 4s in the NBA for a long time. That's more than I can say for Bojan or Ingles.

I still think I would have preferred Favors + Carroll to Bojan + Green. But and least we have a + to add to Bojan now. I was aghast at all the posters pretending that O'Neale, Bojan, and Ingles have the size and strength to manage NBA 4s. Green is still undersized, but he's got a better shot at it than the small forwards and shooting guards we were pretending did.

So I agree, it's a weak spot on the roster. We'll see just how weak it is against this:

Lakers - James, Davis, Kuzma
Nuggets - Millsap, Jokic
Blazers - Collins, Nurkic, Whiteside
Rockets - Tucker, Capela
Warriors - Green, Looney, Cauley-Stein
Thunder - Grant, Adams, Noel
Spurs - Aldridge, Poeltl, Gay
Pelicans - Zion, Favors
Kings - Bagley, Dedmon, Bjelica

Sixers - Horford, Embiid, Harris (Simmons)
Bucks - Giannis, Lopez
Pacers - Sabonis, Turner
Raptors - Siakam, Gasol, Ibaka
Celtics - Morris?, Kanter
Knicks - Entire roster
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Re: WOJ: Jeff Green to UTA on vet MIN 

Post#39 » by erudite23 » Wed Jul 3, 2019 8:25 pm

Green provides great defense at the 4. But he has limitations as a rebounder and he's not much more than a decent finisher and floor spacer. He doesn't give you anything more than that on offense. He's not going to handle much, he doesn't create, he's a below average passer. You are far less dynamic as a team if he is playing big minutes. We don't have a killer two man team to shape the team around. There's no high pick n roll duo that can form the hub of an elite unit. We have to be multiple and have the ability to attack in many ways from many directions. Having the foursome of DM, Conley, Bojan and Joe out there allows us to do that. All of them can handle, pass, shoot. All think the game at a high level. All are unselfish. Take one of them out for Jeff Green and now you are far easier to guard.

Jeff can give you minutes, but he's not going to give you any special skill. He's just decent at a lot of things and he fits the position. We don't have LeBron or the Steph/Klay duo, or Harden pick and roll or even Kawhi's isolation game. We have to share the ball and attack from many directions in order to exploit the assets we've accumulated. And we'll need to do it for more than just 5-10 mins a game, otherwise we traded Favors and Jae for nothing. Those two defend the position far better than Green will. Favors provided huge value as a 2nd center and insurance policy for Rudy. Jae was a more rugged defender, better rebounder and better ball handler than Jeff Green. We just made a huge investment in Bojan. If his main contribution is to push Joe to the bench and keep him fresher, that doesn't move the needle hardly at all. You have to play them together, and not for short stretches, either. It's gotta be 20mpg at least that they are on the floor at the same time, preferably 25ish. Then once you give Georges some time and play Royce some spot minutes, that leaves between 15-20mpg for Green, which is about where I think he should be.

There's a good chance it doesn't go that way, but if that ends up being the case, we won't be in contention for ****. It will mean we spent 73m to make Joe Ingles a super sub. **** that.
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Re: WOJ: Jeff Green to UTA on vet MIN 

Post#40 » by Luigi » Wed Jul 3, 2019 9:04 pm

erudite23 wrote:And we'll need to do it for more than just 5-10 mins a game, otherwise we traded Favors and Jae for nothing. Those two defend the position far better than Green will. Favors provided huge value as a 2nd center and insurance policy for Rudy. Jae was a more rugged defender, better rebounder and better ball handler than Jeff Green. We just made a huge investment in Bojan. If his main contribution is to push Joe to the bench and keep him fresher, that doesn't move the needle hardly at all. You have to play them together, and not for short stretches, either. It's gotta be 20mpg at least that they are on the floor at the same time, preferably 25ish. Then once you give Georges some time and play Royce some spot minutes, that leaves between 15-20mpg for Green, which is about where I think he should be.

There's a good chance it doesn't go that way, but if that ends up being the case, we won't be in contention for ****. It will mean we spent 73m to make Joe Ingles a super sub. **** that.


I buy all of this. It's why I was more comfortable with Favors + Carroll than I am with Bojan + Green. But I do think that adding that much shooting will make things look very different. Conley and Bojan means 64 more minutes of top notch shooters on the roster. Wherever that fits in, it is a lot more than we have had.

I think we'll need Mitchell to be our best player and provide some iso scoring. He's not Harden or Leonard or James. That's why I preferred to stay an elite defensive team instead of trying to win shootouts with Bogdanovic. So we could very well be pretenders--a high scoring regular season offense, that comes up short in the playoffs.

I think we'll need 24 minutes from Green at the 4, 16 from Joe (that's the Joe/Bojan soft fluffy marshmallow forward lineup), and 8 from Naing (continuing in the marshmallow mode). The marshmallows will try to make up for their lack of toughness and size by chucking a lot of 3s. But that goes cold sometimes in the playoffs, especially without a genuine star to carry. So we'll see how much Mitchell can offer at that point, and how much Rudy can defend all by himself.
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