How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders?

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Re: How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders? 

Post#181 » by KqWIN » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:23 am

It's one thing to say, "hey the Clips played really well after the Tobias trade...but take it with a grain of salt because it was a small sample size in a highly variable part of the season". But you went the opposite direction and extrapolated it out. 18-8 is a good talking point. 57 wins is a complete stretch and everyone knows it. The more you reach, the less convincing you become.
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Re: How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders? 

Post#182 » by 50CalClips » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:40 am

dr0welf wrote:Look the Clippers had a great ending to last year. Way better then the way they started the year. I don't think anyone here is unaware of how good of team you have now compared to last year. We are just saying that you can't say it's a 57 win team based off end of the year stats. Add in two pieces, that will be your top 2, pieces onto that team and I hear the implication that you will only go up from 57. How many more wins does PG and Kawhi get you?

Thier are too many variables here that don't work and a lot more teams this year that can win any given night. It's flawed and I don't know if your Clips (or anyteam for that matter) will get the 60 mark this year. And honestly Kawhi + PG additions are worth more then 3 more wins. But since all factors are not equal the comparisons mean little.


Eh, I think some people are unaware. Everyone thought, "Clippers are Tanking" the season when the trade when down. (we're not even talking about the 2020 team, put that aside for now)

    CLIPS NATION, Feb 6
    "In the short term, barring a Davis trade before the deadline (or another superstar), this trade essentially sinks the Clippers’ playoff chances... This is fine. The Clippers probably weren’t going to make the playoffs anyway..."

    SBNation, Tom Ziller Feb 6, 2019
    "The Clippers are executing a special form of tanking that would be legendary if it works"

Perception: Clippers are "Tanking" in order to miss the Playoffs
Reality: Clippers rack up a .692 Win-Rate with their new line-up

I'm not even making any claims, necessarily, beyond pointing out that the 2019 Clippers were two different teams, Before/After the Trade.
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Re: How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders? 

Post#183 » by 50CalClips » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:02 am

KqWIN wrote:It's one thing to say, "hey the Clips played really well after the Tobias trade...but take it with a grain of salt because it was a small sample size in a highly variable part of the season". But you went the opposite direction and extrapolated it out. 18-8 is a good talking point. 57 wins is a complete stretch and everyone knows it. The more you reach, the less convincing you become.

That's exactly what I did... except that I actually presented the actual RESULTS of games, to express the significance of, and the degree to which, how DIFFERENT the Clippers were pre/post trade.

"Reaching" is pretending that 32% is "such a small sample size" that the records are not worth noting, considering... brushing it off as insignificant.
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Re: How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders? 

Post#184 » by KqWIN » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:20 am

There is a ton of a variance in a 26 game sample size. It's not pretending, it's a fact. Do you actually deny that? You keep trying to present something which is not complicated in different ways to boost an argument. First it was 57 wins, now it's 32%. Dude, we're not all dummies. We know exactly how the Clippers performed. You don't have to try to trick us to thinking a rock is tree. 57 wins isn't even the correct way to extrapolate those 26 games if you had to. This is a point I've brought up multiple times, but seemingly doesn't matter. Instead you want to do the incorrect way because...well we know why.

Your attempts to back this outlandish extrapolation are not convincing and have the opposite effect that's intended. What's next, a Raps fan that says they're a 60 win team without Kawhi? I'm sorry, but I can't take anyone seriously who does this and stands so firmly behind it.
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Re: How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders? 

Post#185 » by 50CalClips » Thu Aug 1, 2019 9:44 pm

KqWIN wrote:There is a ton of a variance in a 26 game sample size. It's not pretending, it's a fact. Do you actually deny that? You keep trying to present something which is not complicated in different ways to boost an argument. First it was 57 wins, now it's 32%. Dude, we're not all dummies. We know exactly how the Clippers performed. You don't have to try to trick us to thinking a rock is tree. 57 wins isn't even the correct way to extrapolate those 26 games if you had to. This is a point I've brought up multiple times, but seemingly doesn't matter. Instead you want to do the incorrect way because...well we know why.

Your attempts to back this outlandish extrapolation are not convincing and have the opposite effect that's intended. What's next, a Raps fan that says they're a 60 win team without Kawhi? I'm sorry, but I can't take anyone seriously who does this and stands so firmly behind it.


I included caveats and disclaimers right along with that stat in the very first post/reply...

50CalClips wrote:The final version of the 2019 Clippers had a 57-WIN caliber roster, arguably/technically/hypothetically (I'm not actually making that claim, but just bringing up a fact)...

Those simplistic stats don't tell the whole story, but those are the Win-Loss records


It's an eye-grabber --"57-Win Team"-- aint it? Well, that just happens to be what the new team's 18-8 record extrapolates to. It's simply standardizing the figures for comparison. People think in terms of 82 game seasons. They have in their minds that the Clippers were a scrappy 48-Win Team, good enough for an 8th seed.

EVERYONE THOUGHT this new roster meant that they'd be TANKING to miss the Playoffs!
Well, here's the cold bucket of water, "57-WIN caliber team!" to finish the season.

Stark contrast. More impactful than saying "Hey, please consider that the Clippers arguably got better after the Tobias trade"

It should make "you" (the reader) look into things... did they really have a .692 win-rate?... how did their SOS look?... what was their Point Diff stats?... had I really considered just how much the Clippers team improved with Shamet, JaMychal, and Zubac ?
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Re: How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders? 

Post#186 » by KqWIN » Thu Aug 1, 2019 10:29 pm

Being an "eye-grabber" adds literally nothing to the conversation. And for the last time, you're not even extrapolating correctly. You're skewing something in the most positive way possible. I don't find this more impactful at all. Throw this in front of any informed fan and I'm sure they'll tell you the same thing. Go ahead, try it if you want. See what they think about a proclamation that they were a 57 win caliber team. A measured conversation is much more convincing than a fan skewing something in way that supports their team most. Everybody knows what a homer is.

Peppering the "nobody believed in us" victim complex is not doing you any favors either. Seriously, this perception vs reality thing is the most useless thing ever. We know that the Clippers weren't tanking and that they made the playoffs. We don't need an extrapolation to understand that. Who, as of right now, is actually arguing that the Clippers were worse off? That's history, we all know it.

Feel free to fish for comments elsewhere, but I personally cannot take anyone seriously who purposely extrapolates something in an admittedly poor while also dying on hill to defend it. I don't know what you want at this point other than compliments. This conversation is going know where and has turned into you explaining to me why something you admit is misleading should mean something more to me than it does.
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Re: How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders? 

Post#187 » by stitches » Fri Aug 2, 2019 5:15 am

KqWIN wrote:Being an "eye-grabber" adds literally nothing to the conversation. And for the last time, you're not even extrapolating correctly. You're skewing something in the most positive way possible. I don't find this more impactful at all. Throw this in front of any informed fan and I'm sure they'll tell you the same thing. Go ahead, try it if you want. See what they think about a proclamation that they were a 57 win caliber team. A measured conversation is much more convincing than a fan skewing something in way that supports their team most. Everybody knows what a homer is.

Peppering the "nobody believed in us" victim complex is not doing you any favors either. Seriously, this perception vs reality thing is the most useless thing ever. We know that the Clippers weren't tanking and that they made the playoffs. We don't need an extrapolation to understand that. Who, as of right now, is actually arguing that the Clippers were worse off? That's history, we all know it.

Feel free to fish for comments elsewhere, but I personally cannot take anyone seriously who purposely extrapolates something in an admittedly poor while also dying on hill to defend it. I don't know what you want at this point other than compliments. This conversation is going know where and has turned into you explaining to me why something you admit is misleading should mean something more to me than it does.


I got one... The Jazz were something like 9-1 without Rubio last year. The Jazz don't have Rubio anymore... 74 wins here we come! 8-)
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Re: How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders? 

Post#188 » by KqWIN » Fri Aug 2, 2019 5:20 am

stitches wrote:
KqWIN wrote:Being an "eye-grabber" adds literally nothing to the conversation. And for the last time, you're not even extrapolating correctly. You're skewing something in the most positive way possible. I don't find this more impactful at all. Throw this in front of any informed fan and I'm sure they'll tell you the same thing. Go ahead, try it if you want. See what they think about a proclamation that they were a 57 win caliber team. A measured conversation is much more convincing than a fan skewing something in way that supports their team most. Everybody knows what a homer is.

Peppering the "nobody believed in us" victim complex is not doing you any favors either. Seriously, this perception vs reality thing is the most useless thing ever. We know that the Clippers weren't tanking and that they made the playoffs. We don't need an extrapolation to understand that. Who, as of right now, is actually arguing that the Clippers were worse off? That's history, we all know it.

Feel free to fish for comments elsewhere, but I personally cannot take anyone seriously who purposely extrapolates something in an admittedly poor while also dying on hill to defend it. I don't know what you want at this point other than compliments. This conversation is going know where and has turned into you explaining to me why something you admit is misleading should mean something more to me than it does.


I got one... The Jazz were something like 9-1 without Rubio last year. The Jazz don't have Rubio anymore... 74 wins here we come! 8-)


I was really worried about the Raptors because they were 63 win caliber without Kawhi (17-5), but you've reassured me that we're actually going to blow them out of the water and set the win record.
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Re: How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders? 

Post#189 » by Catchall » Fri Aug 2, 2019 5:19 pm

50CalClips wrote:
KqWIN wrote:There is a ton of a variance in a 26 game sample size. It's not pretending, it's a fact. Do you actually deny that? You keep trying to present something which is not complicated in different ways to boost an argument. First it was 57 wins, now it's 32%. Dude, we're not all dummies. We know exactly how the Clippers performed. You don't have to try to trick us to thinking a rock is tree. 57 wins isn't even the correct way to extrapolate those 26 games if you had to. This is a point I've brought up multiple times, but seemingly doesn't matter. Instead you want to do the incorrect way because...well we know why.

Your attempts to back this outlandish extrapolation are not convincing and have the opposite effect that's intended. What's next, a Raps fan that says they're a 60 win team without Kawhi? I'm sorry, but I can't take anyone seriously who does this and stands so firmly behind it.


I included caveats and disclaimers right along with that stat in the very first post/reply...

50CalClips wrote:The final version of the 2019 Clippers had a 57-WIN caliber roster, arguably/technically/hypothetically (I'm not actually making that claim, but just bringing up a fact)...

Those simplistic stats don't tell the whole story, but those are the Win-Loss records


It's an eye-grabber --"57-Win Team"-- aint it? Well, that just happens to be what the new team's 18-8 record extrapolates to. It's simply standardizing the figures for comparison. People think in terms of 82 game seasons. They have in their minds that the Clippers were a scrappy 48-Win Team, good enough for an 8th seed.

EVERYONE THOUGHT this new roster meant that they'd be TANKING to miss the Playoffs!
Well, here's the cold bucket of water, "57-WIN caliber team!" to finish the season.

Stark contrast. More impactful than saying "Hey, please consider that the Clippers arguably got better after the Tobias trade"

It should make "you" (the reader) look into things... did they really have a .692 win-rate?... how did their SOS look?... what was their Point Diff stats?... had I really considered just how much the Clippers team improved with Shamet, JaMychal, and Zubac ?


Danilo Gallinari was really good last season, both as a shooter and ball mover. He gave you 20/6/3 on efficient shooting splits. You may find that the loss of Gallinari offsets the gain of adding Paul George, depending on how PG is used. You're not going to gain rebounds, assists, or scoring efficiency by exchanging Gallinari for George.

Also, SGA was an important player for the Clips as a two-way PG who could get by defenders. He played important minutes and was surprisingly efficient for a rookie.

Last year, the Lakers were claiming that they were adding Lebron to a 35-win team, and so they concluded that they should win 50+ games. But they were overlooking the fact that they also lost both Julius Randle and Brook Lopez, who played significant roles. By losing those two players, they were realistically adding Lebron to something more like a 28 or 30-win team. They probably should have finished with 45-48 wins.

Given the players the Clippers lost, this year's team may be adding Kawhi and Paul George to the equivalent of a 35-win team. I see the Clips winning somewhere in the low 50s, especially if Kawhi is going to take more than a dozen games off for rest.

Also, regarding sample size, two seasons ago the Jazz finished the season 30-7. That doesn't mean they were a 67-win team. It means their schedule eased up and they played a bunch of teams that were no longer trying to win.
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Re: How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders? 

Post#190 » by Inigo Montoya » Fri Aug 2, 2019 5:29 pm

Catchall wrote:Danilo Gallinari was really good last season, both as a shooter and ball mover. He gave you 20/6/3 on efficient shooting splits. You may find that the loss of Gallinari offsets the gain of adding Paul George, depending on how PG is used. You're not going to gain rebounds, assists, or scoring efficiency by exchanging Gallinari for George.


Last season PG13 averaged 8 rebounds vs Gallo's 6, and 4 assists vs Gallo's 2.6. Even when adjusting both players to 36 minutes, PG13 still produced more rebounds and assists, so the Clippers will gain rebounds and assists. He also averaged 8 points more as the first option on his team on 58%TS, which, while lower than Gallo's 63%TS, is still very good considering their role.
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Re: How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders? 

Post#191 » by 50CalClips » Fri Aug 2, 2019 9:49 pm

Catchall wrote:
50CalClips wrote:...
EVERYONE THOUGHT this new roster meant that they'd be TANKING to miss the Playoffs!
Well, here's the cold bucket of water, "57-WIN caliber team!" to finish the season.

Stark contrast. More impactful than saying "Hey, please consider that the Clippers arguably got better after the Tobias trade"
It should make "you" (the reader) look into things... did they really have a .692 win-rate?... how did their SOS look?... what was their Point Diff stats?... had I really considered just how much the Clippers team improved with Shamet, JaMychal, and Zubac ?

Danilo Gallinari was really good last season, both as a shooter and ball mover. He gave you 20/6/3 on efficient shooting splits. You may find that the loss of Gallinari offsets the gain of adding Paul George, depending on how PG is used. You're not going to gain rebounds, assists, or scoring efficiency by exchanging Gallinari for George.

Also, SGA was an important player for the Clips as a two-way PG who could get by defenders. He played important minutes and was surprisingly efficient for a rookie.

Last year, the Lakers were claiming that they were adding Lebron to a 35-win team, and so they concluded that they should win 50+ games. But they were overlooking the fact that they also lost both Julius Randle and Brook Lopez, who played significant roles. By losing those two players, they were realistically adding Lebron to something more like a 28 or 30-win team. They probably should have finished with 45-48 wins.

Given the players the Clippers lost, this year's team may be adding Kawhi and Paul George to the equivalent of a 35-win team. I see the Clips winning somewhere in the low 50s, especially if Kawhi is going to take more than a dozen games off for rest...

Okay, now we're looking toward the 2020 Clips team (so far I've been talking about how the 2019 Clips arguably got better after the 76ers trade)...

Gallinari was one of the more efficient players for the Clips, career high in Usage, best season of his career. Shai Gils is a versatile, can fill multiple roles, future All-Star. Together, their total Win Share was still less than George's alone (8.2, 3.3 and 11.9).

2019 Win Shares
George - 11.9 (next highest were 9.1 and 7.3 on OKC)
Kawhi - 9.5 (next highest were 9.3 and 6.6 on TOR)
Gallinari - 8.2 (higher was 8.7, next was 5.1 on LAC)
Shai Gils - 3.3 (4th or 5th on LAC, and surprisingly low Per48-WS)

3-Pt Shooting
Shamet, "A+" percentage (.450), 2.7 of 6.0 <-- 1st or 2nd option on LAC* (.422 full season)
Gallinari, "A+" percentage (.433), 2.4 of 5.5 <-- 1st or 2nd
JaMychal, "A" percentage (.413) 1.4 of 3.3 <-- 3rd or 4th
PatBev, "A" percentage (.397) 1.4 of 3.6 <-- 3rd or 4th
George, "B" percentage (.386), 3.8 of 9.8 <-- 1st option on OKC
Kawhi, "B-" percentage (.371), 1.9 of 5.0 <-- 4th-ish option on TOR (.394 since 2016)


Team's 3-Pt Shooting Percentage
1 - Spurs (.392) --- 30th in attempts
2 - Clippers (.388) -- 28th <-- Attempts will sky-rocket, % will remain "B+" level at least
3 - Warriors (.385) -- 8th
4 - Kings (.378) -- 20th
5 - Pacers (.374) -- 29th
6 - Raptors (.366) -- 11th
...
10 - Rockets (.356) -- 1st
22 - Thunder (.348) -- 13th
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Re: How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders? 

Post#192 » by 50CalClips » Fri Aug 2, 2019 10:41 pm

stitches wrote:
KqWIN wrote:Being an "eye-grabber" adds literally nothing to the conversation. And for the last time, you're not even extrapolating correctly. You're skewing something in the most positive way possible. I don't find this more impactful at all. Throw this in front of any informed fan and I'm sure they'll tell you the same thing. Go ahead, try it if you want. See what they think about a proclamation that they were a 57 win caliber team. A measured conversation is much more convincing than a fan skewing something in way that supports their team most. Everybody knows what a homer is.

Peppering the "nobody believed in us" victim complex is not doing you any favors either. Seriously, this perception vs reality thing is the most useless thing ever. We know that the Clippers weren't tanking and that they made the playoffs. We don't need an extrapolation to understand that. Who, as of right now, is actually arguing that the Clippers were worse off? That's history, we all know it.

Feel free to fish for comments elsewhere, but I personally cannot take anyone seriously who purposely extrapolates something in an admittedly poor while also dying on hill to defend it. I don't know what you want at this point other than compliments. This conversation is going know where and has turned into you explaining to me why something you admit is misleading should mean something more to me than it does.


I got one... The Jazz were something like 9-1 without Rubio last year. The Jazz don't have Rubio anymore... 74 wins here we come! 8-)


How about this one... The Clippers traded away their "best player" so their plan is definitely to "tank" the rest of the season and miss the Playoff, because they get to keep their lottery-protected 1st Rd draft pick. :nod:

You thought: Clippers are tanking, will try to miss Playoffs (wouldve meant a .296 Win-Rate)
Reality was: Clippers had a .692 Win-Rate with their new team (for 32% of the season)

I'm here to remind you/make you aware of it, that's all.

(Read the caveats/disclaimers next time, dopey)
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Re: How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders? 

Post#193 » by 50CalClips » Sun Aug 4, 2019 4:06 pm

KqWIN wrote:Being an "eye-grabber" adds literally nothing to the conversation. And for the last time, you're not even extrapolating correctly. You're skewing something in the most positive way possible. I don't find this more impactful at all. Throw this in front of any informed fan and I'm sure they'll tell you the same thing. Go ahead, try it if you want. See what they think about a proclamation that they were a 57 win caliber team. A measured conversation is much more convincing than a fan skewing something in way that supports their team most. Everybody knows what a homer is.

Peppering the "nobody believed in us" victim complex is not doing you any favors either. Seriously, this perception vs reality thing is the most useless thing ever. We know that the Clippers weren't tanking and that they made the playoffs. We don't need an extrapolation to understand that. Who, as of right now, is actually arguing that the Clippers were worse off? That's history, we all know it.

Feel free to fish for comments elsewhere, but I personally cannot take anyone seriously who purposely extrapolates something in an admittedly poor while also dying on hill to defend it. I don't know what you want at this point other than compliments. This conversation is going know where and has turned into you explaining to me why something you admit is misleading should mean something more to me than it does.


It literally started this particular conversation.. but the "57 Wins" thing keeps tripping you up. We both know and understand that it's not the claim that's being made here. The point is to bring attention to the fact that the Clippers were a different team after the trade. And that's not a rah-rah kind of comment. The actual composition of the team was different and the results are the results.

You're misreading my contextualization as woebegone rah rah-type stuff. When I say that everyone thought the Clippers were tanking -- INCLUDING Clippers fans, Clippers media/podcasters, Clippers players (upon hearing of the trade, Pat Bev and Lou Will went to Doc Rivers to ask if they had given up on the season)-- it's to put into context where the Clippers were at the time. It was a mediocre team, not assured to even make the playoffs, likely/possibly mentally checked-out, etc. Also to (possibly) remind the reader about their (likely) perception of the team... juxtaposed with the 'new' Clippers team (.692 with Shamet, Zubac, JaMychal)... and illustrate the stark contrast. So when you assess the 2020 Clippers, make sure you're basing things off of what the Clippers actually were by season's end.

You're so tripped up... you can't get out of your own way.

    KqWIN - "It's one thing to say, "hey the Clips played really well after the Tobias trade...but take it with a grain of salt because it was a small sample size in a highly variable part of the season". But you went the opposite direction and extrapolated it out. 18-8 is a good talking point. 57 wins is a complete stretch and everyone knows it. The more you reach, the less convincing you become."

That is the talking point. The Clippers became a different team two-thirds into the season, and arguably got better. That's the point. Discuss that.
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Re: How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders? 

Post#194 » by Inigo Montoya » Sun Aug 4, 2019 4:24 pm

The Clippers team post-trade was indeed different, but I just looked up the team's schedule for that 26-game stretch and it was a pretty easy one. Most of their Ws were against weaker teams.
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KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

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Re: How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders? 

Post#195 » by KqWIN » Sun Aug 4, 2019 8:08 pm

50CalClips wrote:
KqWIN wrote:Being an "eye-grabber" adds literally nothing to the conversation. And for the last time, you're not even extrapolating correctly. You're skewing something in the most positive way possible. I don't find this more impactful at all. Throw this in front of any informed fan and I'm sure they'll tell you the same thing. Go ahead, try it if you want. See what they think about a proclamation that they were a 57 win caliber team. A measured conversation is much more convincing than a fan skewing something in way that supports their team most. Everybody knows what a homer is.

Peppering the "nobody believed in us" victim complex is not doing you any favors either. Seriously, this perception vs reality thing is the most useless thing ever. We know that the Clippers weren't tanking and that they made the playoffs. We don't need an extrapolation to understand that. Who, as of right now, is actually arguing that the Clippers were worse off? That's history, we all know it.

Feel free to fish for comments elsewhere, but I personally cannot take anyone seriously who purposely extrapolates something in an admittedly poor while also dying on hill to defend it. I don't know what you want at this point other than compliments. This conversation is going know where and has turned into you explaining to me why something you admit is misleading should mean something more to me than it does.


It literally started this particular conversation.. but the "57 Wins" thing keeps tripping you up. We both know and understand that it's not the claim that's being made here. The point is to bring attention to the fact that the Clippers were a different team after the trade. And that's not a rah-rah kind of comment. The actual composition of the team was different and the results are the results.

You're misreading my contextualization as woebegone rah rah-type stuff. When I say that everyone thought the Clippers were tanking -- INCLUDING Clippers fans, Clippers media/podcasters, Clippers players (upon hearing of the trade, Pat Bev and Lou Will went to Doc Rivers to ask if they had given up on the season)-- it's to put into context where the Clippers were at the time. It was a mediocre team, not assured to even make the playoffs, likely/possibly mentally checked-out, etc. Also to (possibly) remind the reader about their (likely) perception of the team... juxtaposed with the 'new' Clippers team (.692 with Shamet, Zubac, JaMychal)... and illustrate the stark contrast. So when you assess the 2020 Clippers, make sure you're basing things off of what the Clippers actually were by season's end.

You're so tripped up... you can't get out of your own way.

    KqWIN - "It's one thing to say, "hey the Clips played really well after the Tobias trade...but take it with a grain of salt because it was a small sample size in a highly variable part of the season". But you went the opposite direction and extrapolated it out. 18-8 is a good talking point. 57 wins is a complete stretch and everyone knows it. The more you reach, the less convincing you become."

That is the talking point. The Clippers became a different team two-thirds into the season, and arguably got better. That's the point. Discuss that.


This is the, "I'm not trying to be a racist, but I'm about to be racist" argument. Yeah, you've included the caveats, but you are also defending it to the death. Which is it? Is the claim that the Clippers were a 57 win caliber team a good one? Or was it a gross exaggeration that we all know isn't true? It can't be both. 18-8 to close the season certainly does mean you are a 57 win caliber team.

You posted a poor extrapolation. You know it's bad, I know it's bad, everyone knows it's bad. I'm sorry that you didn't get the response you were looking for...but generally when you post poor things people are either going to treat it as a poor argument or discussion. Don't get upset when someone treats a fairly useless point as useless.

This whole "they thought" versus "reality" just screams that you are looking for brownie points because your favorite team proved people wrong. Especially combined with the poor extrapolation to paint them in the brightest light possible. It adds nothing to the discussion. People may have been wrong months ago about the Clippers...ok, what does that have to do with this now? Nobody thinks the Clippers were tanking now that we know the results.

When you initially responded to me, I was not confused and thinking that the Clippers were a tanking team. Very easy to know that a team was tanking when we're in August :lol: You can't seriously think that when people were projecting the Clippers forward, they had a tanking team in mind because that's what people thought DID happen.
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Re: How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders? 

Post#196 » by Inigo Montoya » Mon Aug 5, 2019 11:50 am

I think by now we all know each other's position. Let's move on.
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KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.
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Re: How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders? 

Post#197 » by KDBG » Mon Aug 5, 2019 9:22 pm

I have absolutely no memory of making this thread. I'm sober now, no worries. This is ****ing hilarious, cause it's still so true. Closest thing to a modern day Jordan/Pippen we've ever seen. Plus Lou can go off at any moment. Considerably better than the Lakers in my opinion. And I'm no Laker hater.

I do like our chances in the right matchups. Some damn good teams will be done when the 1st round is over tho. Will be the craziest season in a long time.
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Re: How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders? 

Post#198 » by 50CalClips » Tue Aug 6, 2019 5:26 pm

KqWIN wrote:
50CalClips wrote:It literally started this particular conversation.. but the "57 Wins" thing keeps tripping you up. We both know and understand that it's not the claim that's being made here. The point is to bring attention to the fact that the Clippers were a different team after the trade. And that's not a rah-rah kind of comment. The actual composition of the team was different and the results are the results
...
That is the talking point. The Clippers became a different team two-thirds into the season, and arguably got better. That's the point. Discuss that.


This is the, "I'm not trying to be a racist, but I'm about to be racist" argument. Yeah, you've included the caveats, but you are also defending it to the death. Which is it? Is the claim that the Clippers were a 57 win caliber team a good one? Or was it a gross exaggeration that we all know isn't true? It can't be both. 18-8 to close the season certainly does mean you are a 57 win caliber team.

You posted a poor extrapolation. You know it's bad, I know it's bad, everyone knows it's bad. I'm sorry that you didn't get the response you were looking for...but generally when you post poor things people are either going to treat it as a poor argument or discussion. Don't get upset when someone treats a fairly useless point as useless.

This whole "they thought" versus "reality" just screams that you are looking for brownie points because your favorite team proved people wrong. Especially combined with the poor extrapolation to paint them in the brightest light possible. It adds nothing to the discussion. People may have been wrong months ago about the Clippers...ok, what does that have to do with this now? Nobody thinks the Clippers were tanking now that we know the results.

When you initially responded to me, I was not confused and thinking that the Clippers were a tanking team. Very easy to know that a team was tanking when we're in August :lol: You can't seriously think that when people were projecting the Clippers forward, they had a tanking team in mind because that's what people thought DID happen.


Oh my gawd. You're kooky. How about this...
"57 Wins" = The color of my skin
My actual point/LAC improvement = The content of my character
All these posts later, you still can't get past it.

Sad :noway:
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Re: How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders? 

Post#199 » by KqWIN » Tue Aug 6, 2019 6:52 pm

For the record I did not intend to make a comment on your character. I apologize if it came off that way. "I'm not trying to be racist but..." is just a common example of how people say they're not doing something, and then go on to do it. It was a bad point. Everybody, including yourself, agrees it doesn't accurately portray the Clips post trade. We can move on.
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Re: How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders? 

Post#200 » by 50CalClips » Wed Aug 7, 2019 3:21 am

KqWIN wrote:For the record I did not intend to make a comment on your character. I apologize if it came off that way. "I'm not trying to be racist but..." is just a common example of how people say they're not doing something, and then go on to do it. It was a bad point. Everybody, including yourself, agrees it doesn't accurately portray the Clips post trade. We can move on.

Just playing off of your comment. It's all in jest, but anyway... yes, lets move on.

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