Royce O'neale's role

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Royce O'neale's role 

Post#1 » by babyjax13 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:29 pm

Getting back to KqWIN's point about the importance of Royce O'neale on this roster, I'm wondering what people think his role will be. The reason I ask this is because I did a bit of digging into his box score statistics...it isn't the most scientific, but there are some interesting things oriented around rebounding [Jeff Green is provided for comparison in brackets].

Season:
PER 36: 6.1rpg (5.7drpg) [5.3rpg (4.3drpg)]
DRP%: 14.6% [11.7%]

As a starter:
8.7p 5.4r 2a (31mpg) [12.7ppg 3.9rpg 2apg (30mpg)]

Playing 30-39 minutes:
8.7p 6.6r 2.5a (36mpg) [16.8ppg 4.8rpg 2.5apg (35mpg)]

Royce was also a better rebounder in his first season than he was in his second. To me, it looks like Royce's rebounding might synergize best with the starting lineup, while Green's scoring will be needed off the bench. So I'm kind of (at this point) envisioning a depth chart like this:

Rudy 33/Davis 15/Bradley
O'neale 20/Green 20/Bogdanovic 8
Bogdanovic 22/Ingles 20/O'neale 6
Mitchell 26/Dante 14/Ingles 8
Conley 32/Mudiay 8/Mitchell 8
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Re: Royce O'neale's role 

Post#2 » by KqWIN » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:44 pm

I'm really high on Royce coming into this season. He does a lot of things we need well, and I think minor improvements in his game will go a long way. If he would just trust his shot and make decisions with the ball I think he'd establish himself as one of the better low usage wings in the league.

Personally, I think he should start. I think his rebounding and low usage makes sense to put next to Conley and Rubio. I also like staggering him with Exum. I don't think that combo is bad, but I'd rather put the elite shooters around Exum and have the ball handers with Royce so he doesn't feel the need to make as many plays off the dribble.
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Re: Royce O'neale's role 

Post#3 » by JazzyPhinz » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:50 pm

Royce is no starting 4 for this team.
It has to be Green/Bogs/Jingles.
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Re: Royce O'neale's role 

Post#4 » by babyjax13 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:22 pm

JazzyPhinz wrote:Royce is no starting 4 for this team.
It has to be Green/Bogs/Jingles.


Why? Royce is the best rebounder out of that group, a good shooter, can switch, etc. The second unit also needs scoring, which Green will provide, and it needs a playmaker, which is what Jingles is best at. It seems that starting Royce at the 4 could do a lot for us.
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Re: Royce O'neale's role 

Post#5 » by JazzyPhinz » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:28 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
JazzyPhinz wrote:Royce is no starting 4 for this team.
It has to be Green/Bogs/Jingles.


Why? Royce is the best rebounder out of that group, a good shooter, can switch, etc. The second unit also needs scoring, which Green will provide, and it needs a playmaker, which is what Jingles is best at. It seems that starting Royce at the 4 could do a lot for us.


He's a 6'6 220 lb 2 guard. He might be able to play the 3 occasionally but there's no way hes a 4.
We used Royce to guard the Hardens/thompsons.
We aren't having him guard the AD's/Randles/LMa guys.
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Re: Royce O'neale's role 

Post#6 » by babyjax13 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:36 pm

JazzyPhinz wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
JazzyPhinz wrote:Royce is no starting 4 for this team.
It has to be Green/Bogs/Jingles.


Why? Royce is the best rebounder out of that group, a good shooter, can switch, etc. The second unit also needs scoring, which Green will provide, and it needs a playmaker, which is what Jingles is best at. It seems that starting Royce at the 4 could do a lot for us.


He's a 6'6 220 lb 2 guard. He might be able to play the 3 occasionally but there's no way hes a 4.
We used Royce to guard the Hardens/thompsons.
We aren't having him guard the AD's/Randles/LMa guys.


There are obviously some matchups where he'd play less, but Royce is about the same size Jae was + you'd be having him do a ton of switching to blow up situations where teams are trying to exploit mismatches. (Jae 6-6 241; Royce 6-6 223; Green 6-9 235; 6-8 216; Jingles 6-9 226). Royce is a big guy, and he's probably a better candidate to take power forward minutes than Bogs or Joe.
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Re: Royce O'neale's role 

Post#7 » by Cappsy11 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:20 pm

let this one go... he is not PF at all. not even close.. he would have no chance against Davis, Randle, Portis, Harris, LMA, Zion, Favors KP , Durant Ibaka etc...
All the stats you provide does not change my mind.. We need him to backup for when Mitchell rests..
Yes we are going to need help at PF this year which is why i dont understand why the Jazz have dropped the ball on this at started signing players overseas we have never heard off.

Surely there are some options out there.. i rather they bring Jerbeko back or even Booker.
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Re: Royce O'neale's role 

Post#8 » by KqWIN » Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:06 am

This "who is the PF" debate is going to drive me crazy. It doesn't actually matter who you call the 3 and the 4. We know that there will be some combination of Ingles, Bojan, and O'Neale playing together at the forward spots. We're not going to play Jeff Green 40 minutes a game.

Royce O'Neale is actually the player who is the best at big man stuff. He's the best rebounder, best defender, and hustles the most. I don't give a damn if you want to call him the SF or PF next to Ingles or Bojan. It's the same thing.
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Re: Royce O'neale's role 

Post#9 » by Cappy_Smurf » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:23 am

KqWIN wrote:
Personally, I think he should start. I think his rebounding and low usage makes sense to put next to Conley and Rubio.


Rubio plays for the Phoenix suns now. The Jazz have this new kid named Donovan Mitchell. I've heard he is pretty good so he might be a player to keep an eye on.

As for Royce, he's a very good role player, but if he ends up playing more than 20 minutes a game, it will mean that things have gone badly for the team. Bojan's offense will have him playing starter minutes.

To me, I think this idea is a combination of overthinking the PF position and reading too much into stats.
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Re: Royce O'neale's role 

Post#10 » by KqWIN » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:52 am

Cappy_Smurf wrote:
KqWIN wrote:
Personally, I think he should start. I think his rebounding and low usage makes sense to put next to Conley and Rubio.


Rubio plays for the Phoenix suns now. The Jazz have this new kid named Donovan Mitchell. I've heard he is pretty good so he might be a player to keep an eye on.

As for Royce, he's a very good role player, but if he ends up playing more than 20 minutes a game, it will mean that things have gone badly for the team. Bojan's offense will have him playing starter minutes.

To me, I think this idea is a combination of overthinking the PF position and reading too much into stats.


What do you mean? He's easily the first or second best player off the bench, and the other one is Ed Davis. He's a safe bet to play more than 20 minutes unless Quin is going to play the starters 40 minutes a night. Not likely.
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Re: Royce O'neale's role 

Post#11 » by stitches » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:22 am

Cappy_Smurf wrote:
KqWIN wrote:
Personally, I think he should start. I think his rebounding and low usage makes sense to put next to Conley and Rubio.


Rubio plays for the Phoenix suns now. The Jazz have this new kid named Donovan Mitchell. I've heard he is pretty good so he might be a player to keep an eye on.

As for Royce, he's a very good role player, but if he ends up playing more than 20 minutes a game, it will mean that things have gone badly for the team. Bojan's offense will have him playing starter minutes.

To me, I think this idea is a combination of overthinking the PF position and reading too much into stats.

Our depth is worse this year and he played over 20MPG last season. I think it's a relatively safe bet that he gets 20MPG+ this coming season.
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Re: Royce O'neale's role 

Post#12 » by Inigo Montoya » Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:04 am

It feels like we're lacking some depth when it comes to players with size and true front-court presence. We have Gobert, Davis, and that's about it. A little bit of Green, perhaps, but no more. Forgive me for not including Bradley. We signed a lot of wings, need another big, imho.
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Re: Royce O'neale's role 

Post#13 » by SoCalJazzFan » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:34 pm

Is the plan for the Jazz to trot out a guard, 3 wings and Gobert as a starting lineup and most of the minutes? Personally, I see all of Bojan, Ingles and Royce as wings. If so, great, we'll see how it works.

Green and Niang are like hybrid forwards, in my mind, and could potentially go up against the larger, more traditional PFs but I don't have a ton of comfort with that.

I'm not sure that Davis can defend in space (can he?), and his offensive game is limited to near the rim, so I really don't view him as anything other than the backup center.

This makes the Oni signing over Brantley that much more perplexing to me.
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Re: Royce O'neale's role 

Post#14 » by Winglish » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:35 am

Inigo Montoya wrote:It feels like we're lacking some depth when it comes to players with size and true front-court presence. We have Gobert, Davis, and that's about it. A little bit of Green, perhaps, but no more. Forgive me for not including Bradley. We signed a lot of wings, need another big, imho.
I agree completely. I think the Jazz need at least one true power forward.

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Re: Royce O'neale's role 

Post#15 » by erudite23 » Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:55 am

Royce will definitely get burn at the 4 this year. It’s 2019. Teams are playing positionless basketball now. He can easily hold minutes down guarding other 4s. There’s only 2 or 3 guys in the conference that will give him real trouble. It’s not ideal but its not going to lose us games.
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Re: Royce O'neale's role 

Post#16 » by TNJazz » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:58 pm

Royce has made significant improvement every season and I anticipate another large improvement this year. To think that just a few seasons ago, the team seemingly struggled on who to keep as the final roster spot. I feel he is going to work on aspects of his game that need improvement (ball handling) and begin to erase that weakness. While Conley, Mitchell, Gobert, & Ingles are all going to have to have terrific seasons. Royce, to me, is key and I, for one, believe he will rise to the challenge and improve to a level where he will be as impactful in his own way as these other players making the Jazz a dreaded team come playoff time. They won't finish with the best record, but their depth, talent, and heart will propel them to higher levels. The only team that I am not confident in them beating in a 7 game series is Milwaukee. Royce's ability to be sleeper on offense and a killer on defense is what gives me this optimism.
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Re: Royce O'neale's role 

Post#17 » by Catchall » Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:15 am

Don't be shocked if Royce closes games this year. He has a nice combination of defense, rebounding, spot-up shooting and slashing that complements the other guys on the floor. He took rotation minutes from Joe Ingles during the playoffs this year, and he might do it during the season as well. The Jazz need some physicality and motor in their front court, and Royce may turn out to be the guy who delivers. He could be a bit like the Bryon Russel of this Jazz team, that 5th starter who plays hard, knocks down big shots and makes important defensive plays.
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Re: Royce O'neale's role 

Post#18 » by Catchall » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:06 pm

Another guy who is a real wildcard is Emanuel Mudiay. If he's your 4th or 5th option playing on the wing, instead of at PG, he could wreak havoc with his ability to beat bigger guys off the dribble and get to the rim. He adds some athleticism and ability to score in isolation.

The Rockets were title contenders playing CP, Harden and Eric Gordon in the same lineup, with either Tucker or Gerald Green. The Jazz could do something a bit similar with Conley, Mitchell, Mudiay and Bogdanovic at the 4. That's a lot of spacing and offensive versatility. If Mudiay can stay in his lane, I think it could work.
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Re: Royce O'neale's role 

Post#19 » by babyjax13 » Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:30 pm

Catchall wrote:Another guy who is a real wildcard is Emanuel Mudiay. If he's your 4th or 5th option playing on the wing, instead of at PG, he could wreak havoc with his ability to beat bigger guys off the dribble and get to the rim. He adds some athleticism and ability to score in isolation.

The Rockets were title contenders playing CP, Harden and Eric Gordon in the same lineup, with either Tucker or Gerald Green. The Jazz could do something a bit similar with Conley, Mitchell, Mudiay and Bogdanovic at the 4. That's a lot of spacing and offensive versatility. If Mudiay can stay in his lane, I think it could work.


Mudiay really is just an average NBA athlete. Not saying he can't be solid, but I don't think he's the player you are describing.
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Re: Royce O'neale's role 

Post#20 » by Catchall » Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:25 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
Catchall wrote:Another guy who is a real wildcard is Emanuel Mudiay. If he's your 4th or 5th option playing on the wing, instead of at PG, he could wreak havoc with his ability to beat bigger guys off the dribble and get to the rim. He adds some athleticism and ability to score in isolation.

The Rockets were title contenders playing CP, Harden and Eric Gordon in the same lineup, with either Tucker or Gerald Green. The Jazz could do something a bit similar with Conley, Mitchell, Mudiay and Bogdanovic at the 4. That's a lot of spacing and offensive versatility. If Mudiay can stay in his lane, I think it could work.


Mudiay really is just an average NBA athlete. Not saying he can't be solid, but I don't think he's the player you are describing.


I think Mudiay is fairly comparable to Tyreke Evans. He can get by bigger wings, and he can overpower most guards.

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