Around the NBA, Season 2019-2020

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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2019-2020 

Post#281 » by red4hf » Wed Sep 9, 2020 12:48 am

KqWIN wrote:I used to be a Randle guy, but he was dreadful this past season and I've come to my senses on him. Smith I have no interest in him. I don't see him as a high potential player as he does very few things at an average NBA level and has had plenty of chances only to prove that he's not that great.


Smith is terrible..... H'e s a poor man's version of Mudiay......
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2019-2020 

Post#282 » by GobertReport » Wed Sep 9, 2020 1:09 am

KqWIN wrote:I used to be a Randle guy, but he was dreadful this past season and I've come to my senses on him. Smith I have no interest in him. I don't see him as a high potential player as he does very few things at an average NBA level and has had plenty of chances only to prove that he's not that great.


Randle went from a well coached team to the Knicks.....

Honestly if we are trading a pick, I’d much rather trade Ingles and 23 for Randle.
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2019-2020 

Post#283 » by KqWIN » Wed Sep 9, 2020 1:13 am

GobertReport wrote:
KqWIN wrote:I used to be a Randle guy, but he was dreadful this past season and I've come to my senses on him. Smith I have no interest in him. I don't see him as a high potential player as he does very few things at an average NBA level and has had plenty of chances only to prove that he's not that great.


Randle went from a well coached team to the Knicks.....

Honestly if we are trading a pick, I’d much rather trade Ingles and 23 for Randle.


Yeah...I’m not interested in trading our pick and the significantly better + more useful player.
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2019-2020 

Post#284 » by babyjax13 » Wed Sep 9, 2020 7:26 am

GobertReport wrote:
KqWIN wrote:I used to be a Randle guy, but he was dreadful this past season and I've come to my senses on him. Smith I have no interest in him. I don't see him as a high potential player as he does very few things at an average NBA level and has had plenty of chances only to prove that he's not that great.


Randle went from a well coached team to the Knicks.....

Honestly if we are trading a pick, I’d much rather trade Ingles and 23 for Randle.


That would compound our spacing problems and trade a much better/more useful player for one that would get run off the court in the playoffs, AND we add a first, no thanks.
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2019-2020 

Post#285 » by stitches » Wed Sep 9, 2020 8:00 am

I'm shocked at how many people continue to want us to spend first round picks for backups... And in the process losing a starter. Conley is not great and has been a disappointment but he is still a better player than Randle. We are over the cap either way... With Randle or with Conley... For us it doesn't matter. Why would we give up picks to get worse players without getting anything else in return? This makes no sense to me.
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2019-2020 

Post#286 » by Inigo Montoya » Wed Sep 9, 2020 8:46 am

It's time we started receiving assets for providing cap relief to other teams instead of giving them.

I do, however, see some logic in trading for Randle or someone like him. It's about preserving assets instead of losing Conley for nothing and still be over the cap. This way, the Jazz will still have some other player to trade later for other assets and hope that at some point they'll get an asset they can use.

As for Randle himself, I don't think he fits with this roster but he is talented and it was obvious he (and all other players who signed with the Knicks) would look bad with the Knicks. It happens to all players.
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2019-2020 

Post#287 » by SoCalJazzFan » Wed Sep 9, 2020 8:34 pm

The reality is that the Jazz are only about $14M away from the tax next season. How do they keep Conley while signing Clarkson, their draft pick and plug in the holes without going into the tax (which I don't think they will unless they feel confident that they have a team that could compete for the championship, or perhaps never in any circumstance)? This would still leave the Jazz with the GLeague backup crew.
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2019-2020 

Post#288 » by sipclip » Wed Sep 9, 2020 9:48 pm

stitches wrote:I'm shocked at how many people continue to want us to spend first round picks for backups... And in the process losing a starter. Conley is not great and has been a disappointment but he is still a better player than Randle. We are over the cap either way... With Randle or with Conley... For us it doesn't matter. Why would we give up picks to get worse players without getting anything else in return? This makes no sense to me.


Who wants to give up a 1st other than the author of the article? There is no way that jazz management as incompetent as they can be at times would give up a 1st for Randle.
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2019-2020 

Post#289 » by red4hf » Wed Sep 9, 2020 10:44 pm

As someone suggested a better way for the Jazz to avoid coming anywhere near the luxury tax is to re-negotiate with Conley..... He opts out of his deal, Jazz sign him to a 2 year deal with same amount of money guaranteed......

They can then safely re-sign Clarkson......

Randle is just not the answer.......
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2019-2020 

Post#290 » by SoCalJazzFan » Wed Sep 9, 2020 10:50 pm

red4hf wrote:As someone suggested a better way for the Jazz to avoid coming anywhere near the luxury tax is to re-negotiate with Conley..... He opts out of his deal, Jazz sign him to a 2 year deal with same amount of money guaranteed......

They can then safely re-sign Clarkson......

Randle is just not the answer.......

Why would Conley prepare for and play another season for the same amount of money as he would get next season? He wouldn't.
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2019-2020 

Post#291 » by red4hf » Wed Sep 9, 2020 11:00 pm

SoCalJazzFan wrote:
red4hf wrote:As someone suggested a better way for the Jazz to avoid coming anywhere near the luxury tax is to re-negotiate with Conley..... He opts out of his deal, Jazz sign him to a 2 year deal with same amount of money guaranteed......

They can then safely re-sign Clarkson......

Randle is just not the answer.......

Why would Conley prepare for and play another season for the same amount of money as he would get next season? He wouldn't.


The Jazz can guarantee him slightly more money over the 2 years to make it worth his while.....
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2019-2020 

Post#292 » by SoCalJazzFan » Wed Sep 9, 2020 11:03 pm

sipclip wrote:
stitches wrote:I'm shocked at how many people continue to want us to spend first round picks for backups... And in the process losing a starter. Conley is not great and has been a disappointment but he is still a better player than Randle. We are over the cap either way... With Randle or with Conley... For us it doesn't matter. Why would we give up picks to get worse players without getting anything else in return? This makes no sense to me.


Who wants to give up a 1st other than the author of the article? There is no way that jazz management as incompetent as they can be at times would give up a 1st for Randle.

I'm not saying that the Randle trade is going to happen or even a legit rumor. However, the Jazz are hogtied if they keep Conley. They could only hope that they could run back the same team- which would require Clarkson and the draft pick to be signed below the tax level, which would mean you're offering Clarkson less than $12M which is probably below his market value.

On the other hand, if the Jazz were presented this trade and went for it, the Jazz would have:
$102M in salary after trade, resulting in:
$7M cap space
$4.8M mini-MLE
$5M room exception
$3.8M BAE

That gives the Jazz nearly $30M to extend Clarkson and improve the bench.

The scenario in the article is not Conley plus 1st for Randle, it is Conley plus 1st for Randle and $16M additional cap space (edit: savings or additional money to upgrade team).

Is the #23 pick in this draft (roundly criticized as being weak) worth the trade offs noted above? What if the Jazz could negotiate a pick swap of #23 and #38? Is the #38 pick that much worse in this year's draft than #23?

Yet another consideration is that once Mitchell is extended, the Jazz are handcuffed again as far as the player signings they could make due to cap implications. Signing players now gives 1-2 additional years of a decent bench.

I'm just throwing out considerations of keeping Conley vs trading him, even if it costs the Jazz a pick.
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2019-2020 

Post#293 » by SoCalJazzFan » Wed Sep 9, 2020 11:05 pm

red4hf wrote:
SoCalJazzFan wrote:
red4hf wrote:As someone suggested a better way for the Jazz to avoid coming anywhere near the luxury tax is to re-negotiate with Conley..... He opts out of his deal, Jazz sign him to a 2 year deal with same amount of money guaranteed......

They can then safely re-sign Clarkson......

Randle is just not the answer.......

Why would Conley prepare for and play another season for the same amount of money as he would get next season? He wouldn't.


The Jazz can guarantee him slightly more money over the 2 years to make it worth his while.....

Slightly would have to be at least $10M-$15M additional, perhaps more, or it is not worth his consideration.
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2019-2020 

Post#294 » by red4hf » Wed Sep 9, 2020 11:13 pm

SoCalJazzFan wrote:
red4hf wrote:
SoCalJazzFan wrote:Why would Conley prepare for and play another season for the same amount of money as he would get next season? He wouldn't.


The Jazz can guarantee him slightly more money over the 2 years to make it worth his while.....

Slightly would have to be at least $10M-$15M additional, perhaps more, or it is not worth his consideration.


Why wouldn't it be worth his consideration? Gets waived by the Jazz, gets to keep him money, signs with a team of his choice......
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2019-2020 

Post#295 » by SoCalJazzFan » Wed Sep 9, 2020 11:27 pm

red4hf wrote:
SoCalJazzFan wrote:
red4hf wrote:
The Jazz can guarantee him slightly more money over the 2 years to make it worth his while.....

Slightly would have to be at least $10M-$15M additional, perhaps more, or it is not worth his consideration.


Why wouldn't it be worth his consideration? Gets waived by the Jazz, gets to keep him money, signs with a team of his choice......

I am pretty sure an arrangement like this would not be allowed.
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2019-2020 

Post#296 » by red4hf » Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:29 am

SoCalJazzFan wrote:
red4hf wrote:
SoCalJazzFan wrote:Slightly would have to be at least $10M-$15M additional, perhaps more, or it is not worth his consideration.


Why wouldn't it be worth his consideration? Gets waived by the Jazz, gets to keep him money, signs with a team of his choice......

I am pretty sure an arrangement like this would not be allowed.


I am not an expert on the CBA, but I don't think it's against the rules...... The only problem might be that it's allowed for a 3 year deal instead of 2..... For example Randle only has $4 mil guaranteed of his 19.8 for 21-22 season......
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2019-2020 

Post#297 » by KqWIN » Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:11 am

I'm still on the Aaron Gordon train. I don't think he's been great, but I still believe in his chances to be a late bloomer. It's happened with Oldaipo and Harris once they left Orlando. I'd honestly be willing to trade Bogey for him. But we could maybe do a Conley deal as well. Conley for Gordon+Fournier or Gordon+Aminu. I'm not sure what Gordon's value is at this point, but I really like those ideas. If we are able to turn Conley into Gordon and another rotation player, we're suddenly not that thin...especially at the wing position.

That would mean we're not dead in the water if Clarkson leaves, and if he stays we have the luxury of using the MLE on a C or PG which would fill out the roster nicely.
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2019-2020 

Post#298 » by KqWIN » Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:23 am

Come to think of it, Conley for Fournier+Aminu is not bad either. I think we'd want more value coming back to us though.
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2019-2020 

Post#299 » by GobertReport » Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:22 am

I’d be down for A A Ron.
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Re: Around the NBA, Season 2019-2020 

Post#300 » by Inigo Montoya » Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:40 am

Why would the Magic trade two good players for Conley? Any trade combination of players of Fournier, Aminu and Gordon for Conley is a highway robbery for the Jazz.
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KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.

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