Mike Conley doesn't fit

[@ndrew]

Well, it's not a reaction of last game, just logical conclusion.
Here is the thing. Everyone has been saying that Jazz has a complex offensive system.
In the meantime Conley is said to be one of the highest basketball minds of all.
While Clarkson and Miduay - not so much.
But somehow, Latter two are playing good ball and Jordan can get 6th man of the year award.
So what's wrong?
Is it still so complex? Or maybe... Just maybe Mike is not so smart and Good?

[Rauxcee]

In other news, water is wet.

Some of us have been pointing that out for a while now. Just saying. I even made a big rambley post about it the other day.

His individual performance has been fine lately, but he has this snowball effect- from the starters to the bench- that throws them all out of whack.

The Jazz need to survive him and hope he continues to play well, and either hope they finally click come playoffs, or hope he plays well enough we can move him in the off season without paying too high a price.

[KqWIN]

We definitely have a too many cooks in the kitchen situation. The opposite of recent years...

If he continues to play well that’s obviously a nice bonus, but the Jazz have a roster where not everyone can play well in unison. Not enough spots on the court and no enough touches for the guys who do make it onto the court.

I do think Conley looks worse because whenever he’s healthy, it means there’s one too many guys. If Mitchell was out, for example, Conley would look more natural on this team.

[@ndrew]

In other news, water is wet.

Some of us have been pointing that out for a while now. Just saying. I even made a big rambley post about it the other day.

His individual performance has been fine lately, but he has this snowball effect- from the starters to the bench- that throws them all out of whack.

The Jazz need to survive him and hope he continues to play well, and either hope they finally click come playoffs, or hope he plays well enough we can move him in the off season without paying too high a price.

Yup, that's why we have a special place now to point fingers all together:)

[babyjax13]

No animus toward him, but it's clear that this team (so far) is better with him, than without. I'm hoping that part of what we are seeing is an adjustment period. Conley clearly was never healthy this season, until coming back most recently. Now he gets another break. Hopefully after 10 games the team gels and we can peak for the playoffs. But, I think that he's just not a good fit because we don't need a point guard. Hopefully we can move him in the offseason, I've got my fingers crossed that Philly looks to blow up their supporting cast a bit, and maybe we can nab Tobias Harris for Conley + stuff.

[@ndrew]

No animus toward him, but it's clear that this team (so far) is better with him, than without. I'm hoping that part of what we are seeing is an adjustment period. Conley clearly was never healthy this season, until coming back most recently. Now he gets another break. Hopefully after 10 games the team gels and we can peak for the playoffs. But, I think that he's just not a good fit because we don't need a point guard. Hopefully we can move him in the offseason, I've got my fingers crossed that Philly looks to blow up their supporting cast a bit, and maybe we can nab Tobias Harris for Conley + stuff.

Our second unit can use a point guard, we can even go small with JC and Mike in the same line up. I just don't think we should erupt starting line up here and there, just because we look at cap situation. Coach knows better, but I hope he will just use correct rotation next time.

[sipclip]

The thing that really jumps out to me is that when paired with Conley you see Mitchell struggle badly when being guarded by opposing sg's. He never has a size advantage at that position while at the point he pretty much always does. His production and efficiency with and without Conley starting has got to be massive.

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[KqWIN]

At least he was playing well recently. At the beginning of the season, he was playing poorly at the expense of others. Now he’s playing well at the expense of others. It was only 5 games or so, but one can hope.

It is pretty clear that he is not the type of player we need, especially with Clarkson.

[JazzyPhinz]

He's not the ideal fit. But if he can keep up his recent play the Jazz are a better team.
I dont buy the narrative of Mitchell being guarded by 2's as the reason for his struggles. We pick and roll everything.

[eLo]

Conley may not be perfect fit, and he may not adres our most needs, but lets be honest with good Mike Conley, with Conley playing on level that he used to thru most of his career, every team on earth is simply better no matter what, and how roster is build

[Tom349]

He's not the ideal fit. But if he can keep up his recent play the Jazz are a better team.
I dont buy the narrative of Mitchell being guarded by 2's as the reason for his struggles. We pick and roll everything.

It's a ridiculous argument. He has spent the vast majority of his career playing the 2 with Rubio at PG and never had any issues, so the idea that a better point guard and spacer in Conley is hurting his game is rubbish. It also doesn't factor in Mitchell starting the season scoring more than ever before with Conley beside him with a schedule being on at its strongest.

The biggest issue with Donovans play of late has been his turnovers and if you look through his games you will find he struggles taking care of the ball against sides above .500. The recent stretch of games has seen us playing teams above .500 or playing like they should be above .500 so that is more or less the problem, not who he is paired with on the floor but rather how good the opposing team is.

[sipclip]

He's not the ideal fit. But if he can keep up his recent play the Jazz are a better team.
I dont buy the narrative of Mitchell being guarded by 2's as the reason for his struggles. We pick and roll everything.

It's a ridiculous argument. He has spent the vast majority of his career playing the 2 with Rubio at PG and never had any issues, so the idea that a better point guard and spacer in Conley is hurting his game is rubbish. It also doesn't factor in Mitchell starting the season scoring more than ever before with Conley beside him with a schedule being on at its strongest.

The biggest issue with Donovans play of late has been his turnovers and if you look through his games you will find he struggles taking care of the ball against sides above .500. The recent stretch of games has seen us playing teams above .500 or playing like they should be above .500 so that is more or less the problem, not who he is paired with on the floor but rather how good the opposing team is.

Nothing ridiculous about it at all. Teams are learning and going out of there way to put longer defenders on Mitchell when they have the choice. Also the first part of the season Mitchell was playing like crap when Conley was healthy so to say he was playing well is a joke. Next time do a little research before taking a stand.

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[Denizfeital]

He does fit greatly. He just has not been playing the level he used to in Memphis.

When we traded for him, I don't remember people complaining that much about it (if at all).

So, he had a bad start and tough time to adjust. He has been better lately. Let's hope he keeps improving and become what we expect him to.

Regards,

[Rauxcee]

He does fit greatly. He just has not been playing the level he used to in Memphis.

When we traded for him, I don't remember people complaining that much about it (if at all).

So, he had a bad start and tough time to adjust. He has been better lately. Let's hope he keeps improving and become what we expect him to.

Regards,

Lots of people complained. In fact, I think about half of us who posted here complained about the trade. And, a good portion complained about the trade before it happened the first time it was rumored.

We are 53 games into the season and we are still waiting for Memphis Mike to show up. He's not going to. It's insane that this far into the season people are still coming up with excuses on why he hasn't returned to form or played to expectations. The reason is, he's not that good anymore and we will never see Memphis Mike. We'll see over priced role player Mike from here on out.

Yes he's been playing better, but his better isn't that great, and it certainly isn't worth the chemistry problems that the team has with him on the floor.

[Denizfeital]

He does fit greatly. He just has not been playing the level he used to in Memphis.

When we traded for him, I don't remember people complaining that much about it (if at all).

So, he had a bad start and tough time to adjust. He has been better lately. Let's hope he keeps improving and become what we expect him to.

Regards,

Lots of people complained. In fact, I think about half of us who posted here complained about the trade. And, a good portion complained about the trade before it happened the first time it was rumored.

We are 53 games into the season and we are still waiting for Memphis Mike to show up. He's not going to. It's insane that this far into the season people are still coming up with excuses on why he hasn't returned to form or played to expectations. The reason is, he's not that good anymore and we will never see Memphis Mike. We'll see over priced role player Mike from here on out.

Yes he's been playing better, but his better isn't that great, and it certainly isn't worth the chemistry problems that the team has with him on the floor.

Oh my gosh. Your post is so inconsistent that is really hard to follow. I will try though.

First. We are talking about Conley, not Conley's contract. That is completely different. One thing has nothing to do with the other. You may complain the price is high, and still the player is good. No need to explain it any further.

He did not play 53, so, makes no sense to point that out.

If we are still waiting for Memphis Mike to show up, it can only means that he has something left in the tank.

"Better isn't that great".

"Chemistry problems"? Really?

You don't like him. Cool. That is your opinion and I respect it. But that is it.

I really dislike Mudiay, I think he has one of the lowest IQ I have ever seen in a Jazz uniform. Just one opinion which would have nothing to do with this topic.

Regards,

[sipclip]

He does fit greatly. He just has not been playing the level he used to in Memphis.

When we traded for him, I don't remember people complaining that much about it (if at all).

So, he had a bad start and tough time to adjust. He has been better lately. Let's hope he keeps improving and become what we expect him to.

Regards,

You clearly weren't around because there were plenty of us that hated the trade. Also to say that Mike is a good fit is simply not true. First off the guy is a horrible defender which is made even worse by the fact that he is paired in a mini me backcourt with Mitchell. The 2 are not a good fit from a size and style of play standpoint. Yeah he has been better lately but he is still worse than ever defensively and his offense seems to be coming at the expense of other guys. Sometimes a player just doesn't fit and to this point that has clearly been the case with Conley. The only good news is that he has a chance to rebuild some trade value so that we can hopefully get something for him in the offseason.

[KqWIN]

Conley is a fine fit for the system...not so much with the existing personnel. Obviously we have more than enough guys who want to dribble and shoot the ball. The size with Mitchell is also problematic on defense, but Conley's size would be an issue no matter who he played with. Don't think the PG vs SG thing matters for Mitchell. Even when Conley is out, Mitchell is almost always guarded by an opposing wing or best defender. Ingles and O'Neale are not players that need to be defended with size.

[Rauxcee]

He does fit greatly. He just has not been playing the level he used to in Memphis.

When we traded for him, I don't remember people complaining that much about it (if at all).

So, he had a bad start and tough time to adjust. He has been better lately. Let's hope he keeps improving and become what we expect him to.

Regards,

Lots of people complained. In fact, I think about half of us who posted here complained about the trade. And, a good portion complained about the trade before it happened the first time it was rumored.

We are 53 games into the season and we are still waiting for Memphis Mike to show up. He's not going to. It's insane that this far into the season people are still coming up with excuses on why he hasn't returned to form or played to expectations. The reason is, he's not that good anymore and we will never see Memphis Mike. We'll see over priced role player Mike from here on out.

Yes he's been playing better, but his better isn't that great, and it certainly isn't worth the chemistry problems that the team has with him on the floor.

Oh my gosh. Your post is so inconsistent that is really hard to follow. I will try though.

First. We are talking about Conley, not Conley's contract. That is completely different. One thing has nothing to do with the other. You may complain the price is high, and still the player is good. No need to explain it any further.

He did not play 53, so, makes no sense to point that out.

If we are still waiting for Memphis Mike to show up, it can only means that he has something left in the tank.

"Better isn't that great".

"Chemistry problems"? Really?

You don't like him. Cool. That is your opinion and I respect it. But that is it.

I really dislike Mudiay, I think he has one of the lowest IQ I have ever seen in a Jazz uniform. Just one opinion which would have nothing to do with this topic.

Regards,

Who is we? Conley's contract sucked and that was only one of the reasons people didn't want him. The other reason was because he wasn't good enough to make that big of a difference. I thought the Jazz were a second round team before Conley, and I thought if the Jazz traded for him we'd still be a second round team. His skill level wasn't that great and his contract was the icing on the cake. He was putting up empty stats on a bad Grizzly team the last couple years.

I don't care if he's played 53 games or not. The point is, Bogey and Clarkson are new to the team, system, players, and they figured it out quickly- while Conley and the team still hasn't figured out how to play together this far into the season.

Chemistry problems- yes really. When Conley plays the offense turns into no passing, hero ball chucking. Ingles gets frozen out of the game when he and Gobert excel at the PNR. With Mike in, Ingles usage goes down, which impacts Gobert. Mitchell has the ball in his hands less which some how leads to poor shot selection and Bogey does the same. Royce has always played better as a starter and he compliments the starters much better than the bench and so he is impacted as well. Defensively, Conley is a poor defender- coupled with Bogey we have 2 poor defenders out there making poor defensive decisions and its contagious. Not to mention he and Mitchell are too small of a backcourt on defense.

Conley is also a terrible decison maker with the ball and makes some pretty asisine reads. He's not the only Jazz player that does that, but I expected better from him at least.

The jazz have looked better and won when Conley is out. When he plays they look terrible and lose- and its not the competition- outside of a couple teams their schedule has been cake since late December.

You can be a "good" player and still be a bad fit. Thats whats happening her. Also, Conley's good is equivalent to being a solid role player, which is not what The Jazz thought theybwere getting. So in that respect, his good is not good enough.

[Tom349]

He's not the ideal fit. But if he can keep up his recent play the Jazz are a better team.
I dont buy the narrative of Mitchell being guarded by 2's as the reason for his struggles. We pick and roll everything.

It's a ridiculous argument. He has spent the vast majority of his career playing the 2 with Rubio at PG and never had any issues, so the idea that a better point guard and spacer in Conley is hurting his game is rubbish. It also doesn't factor in Mitchell starting the season scoring more than ever before with Conley beside him with a schedule being on at its strongest.

The biggest issue with Donovans play of late has been his turnovers and if you look through his games you will find he struggles taking care of the ball against sides above .500. The recent stretch of games has seen us playing teams above .500 or playing like they should be above .500 so that is more or less the problem, not who he is paired with on the floor but rather how good the opposing team is.

Nothing ridiculous about it at all. Teams are learning and going out of there way to put longer defenders on Mitchell when they have the choice. Also the first part of the season Mitchell was playing like crap when Conley was healthy so to say he was playing well is a joke. Next time do a little research before taking a stand.

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Teams put their best defender on Donovan they just so happen to be 'long defenders', the reason for this is Donovan is the most dangerous offensive option we have. Unless we were to get a better offensive option than Donovan he will always be guarded by the opposition best defender. To blame Conley for this is indeed ridiculous.

Learn to read. Never said he was "playing well" but he was "scoring more" which is a fact. Was getting to the line more and also shot the 3 ball better, he was settling for floaters which impacted his overall FG% but he wasn't playing like crap, had some very good games mixed in with some poor games. Again blaming Conley for any of this is ridiculous.

[@ndrew]

So, do you think it's too early to call it a failure? Should we wait till playoffs or just call it a night here?
Sadly, Conley trade was a trap. Memphis made us our bed, and it came with nightmare of never becoming a true contender. We blew our Chance. Being with Favors , Crowder and Korver (or at least with someone of that caliber and salary) would at least gave us more flexibility to take next step.
Backcourt of Royce and Donovan would be just fine for start and after that we could've play the different game with Clarkson , Korver and Crowder in between.
Well, there is a still small hope that Conley will turn it around. But it's veeeeery small hope..