Game 57: Phoenix Suns (23-34) @ Utah Jazz (36-20)

[babyjax13]

Conley is the most dissapointing acquisition, ever. I don't even blame him, we were just short-sighted. I thought we traded too much, but did think he elevated us. Well...he does not.

[anish23]

i really think its time to shut down this conley experiment, give his minutes to mudiay

[Tom349]

Do not bring the **** starters back out on the floor. Send a **** message for once Quin.

[anish23]

Do not bring the **** starters back out on the floor. Send a **** message for once Quin.

its not like quin's been good either.

[babyjax13]

i really think its time to shut down this conley experiment, give his minutes to mudiay

I don't think Mudiay is a better player, but the ball doesn't stick in his hands when the best players are on the court...and that's honestly what we need. Conley needs to go, though, this offseason. He has given no effort in this game. I'm watching four of our starters bust their ass whenever Conley is off the court, but when he is on it the ball sticks to him and Mitchell and/or Bogey are forced to bail us out.

[KqWIN]

I mean, I agree that Conley was the worst move of the summer. It will severely set back this franchise (it already has). But acquiring Conley didn't make the entire team soft. These guys have no desire to win. Every player and Quin as well has acknowledged that the main issue is that they refuse to compete on defense. That's the issue and nobody cares to fix it.

They've completely given up. Quin has lost this team in a huge way. Nothing matters to these players except their individual moments on offense. But I guess that's what happens when you stack ball hogs on offense. Nobody on this team cares about winning more than their next opportunity on offense. Even Gobert and O'Neale have been laughably bad on defense.

Conley cannot be the only scapegoat for an entire team problem. If you don't have the desire to compete, you can't win. The first step is that the Jazz have to be willing to compete, and the players have collectively decided that competing is not something they are interested in. It's more favorable for them to get embarrassed every night and then tell the media afterwards that they need to try harder next time.

[babyjax13]

I think Quin realizes Conley is a problem, because he isn't getting starter's minutes.

[babyjax13]

I mean, I agree that Conley was the worst move of the summer. It will severely set back this franchise (it already has). But acquiring Conley didn't make the entire team soft. These guys have no desire to win. Every player and Quin as well has acknowledged that the main issue is that they refuse to compete on defense. That's the issue and nobody cares to fix it.

They've completely given up. Quin has lost this team in a huge way. Nothing matters to these players except their individual moments on offense. But I guess that's what happens when you stack ball hogs on offense. Nobody on this team cares about winning more than their next opportunity on offense. Even Gobert and O'Neale have been laughably bad on defense.

Conley cannot be the only scapegoat for an entire team problem. If you don't have the desire to compete, you can't win. The first step is that the Jazz have to be willing to compete, and the players have collectively decided that competing is not something they are interested in. It's more favorable for them to get embarrassed every night and then tell the media afterwards that they need to try harder next time.

Then trade everyone who is an issue. Quin has already proven enough as a coach. Get rid of Conley... get rid of (as much as I love them) Bogey and Ingles...then get rid of everyone who can't defend (Bradley, Niang).

[babyjax13]

This team might miss the playoffs.

[babyjax13]

I think we also have to ask if the transition to small ball is making Rudy less valuable.

[tugs]

First time I've seen Clarkson looking pissed that he's not getting the ball. Rightfully so I think. Lots of dribbles while he's actively cutting. And whenever he makes a move with the ball, others are stagnant.

[KqWIN]

I mean, I agree that Conley was the worst move of the summer. It will severely set back this franchise (it already has). But acquiring Conley didn't make the entire team soft. These guys have no desire to win. Every player and Quin as well has acknowledged that the main issue is that they refuse to compete on defense. That's the issue and nobody cares to fix it.

They've completely given up. Quin has lost this team in a huge way. Nothing matters to these players except their individual moments on offense. But I guess that's what happens when you stack ball hogs on offense. Nobody on this team cares about winning more than their next opportunity on offense. Even Gobert and O'Neale have been laughably bad on defense.

Conley cannot be the only scapegoat for an entire team problem. If you don't have the desire to compete, you can't win. The first step is that the Jazz have to be willing to compete, and the players have collectively decided that competing is not something they are interested in. It's more favorable for them to get embarrassed every night and then tell the media afterwards that they need to try harder next time.

Then trade everyone who is an issue. Quin has already proven enough as a coach. Get rid of Conley... get rid of (as much as I love them) Bogey and Ingles...then get rid of everyone who can't defend (Bradley, Niang).

Getting rid of Conley won't fix the issues with this team. We could trade Conley for prime Michael Jordan and it wouldn't matter if this team has the same mental. The entire team is soft right now. That includes Rudy, Donovan, everyone. They aren't competing.

Moving Conley does take one ball hog and one defensive liability off the court...but it's not suddenly going to make the other guys care about winning basketball games. At this point, they don't even have to care about winning. They need to care about not being embarrassed every night. Rudy said it well, teams are having fun at their expense. And yet he and the rest of the players couldn't be bothered to stop it.

[babyjax13]

I mean, I agree that Conley was the worst move of the summer. It will severely set back this franchise (it already has). But acquiring Conley didn't make the entire team soft. These guys have no desire to win. Every player and Quin as well has acknowledged that the main issue is that they refuse to compete on defense. That's the issue and nobody cares to fix it.

They've completely given up. Quin has lost this team in a huge way. Nothing matters to these players except their individual moments on offense. But I guess that's what happens when you stack ball hogs on offense. Nobody on this team cares about winning more than their next opportunity on offense. Even Gobert and O'Neale have been laughably bad on defense.

Conley cannot be the only scapegoat for an entire team problem. If you don't have the desire to compete, you can't win. The first step is that the Jazz have to be willing to compete, and the players have collectively decided that competing is not something they are interested in. It's more favorable for them to get embarrassed every night and then tell the media afterwards that they need to try harder next time.

Then trade everyone who is an issue. Quin has already proven enough as a coach. Get rid of Conley... get rid of (as much as I love them) Bogey and Ingles...then get rid of everyone who can't defend (Bradley, Niang).

Getting rid of Conley won't fix the issues with this team. We could trade Conley for prime Michael Jordan and it wouldn't matter if this team has the same mental. The entire team is soft right now. That includes Rudy, Donovan, everyone. They aren't competing.

Moving Conley does take one ball hog and one defensive liability off the court...but it's not suddenly going to make the other guys care about winning basketball games. At this point, they don't even have to care about winning. They need to care about not being embarrassed every night. Rudy said it well, teams are having fun at their expense. And yet he and the rest of the players couldn't be bothered to stop it.

Not entirely sure I agree. We looked really good without Conley, and I'm willing to say it was because he wasn't playing. When the ball isn't moving, we have problems, and the ball moves when Ingles and Mitchell are the point guards. Conley just pounds it aimlessly. He's always floating ten feet behind the line.

[KqWIN]

Not entirely sure I agree. We looked really good without Conley, and I'm willing to say it was because he wasn't playing. When the ball isn't moving, we have problems, and the ball moves when Ingles and Mitchell are the point guards. Conley just pounds it aimlessly. He's always floating ten feet behind the line.

I just can't even begin to think about the offense when the defense has clearly been the much bigger issue. Are guys refusing to play defense because they're unhappy with the amount of touches/shots they're getting? Maybe...and I do think removing Conley fixes some of that. No one has been more negative on Conley's play this season.

But at the same time, you need guys who compete all the time and not just when they are being satisfied offensively. It's a major issue when guys admittedly don't compete, get embarrassed every night, and are still focused on getting their own shots and dribbles in.

[Lava Rock Kid]

Pretty obvious we have issues in the locker room. I assume we have one side fighting with the others. I assume we have new additions. Bogey Conley and Clarkson fighting with Gobert Donovan and ingles and O’Neal.

[goober]

I’ve genuinely have lost interest in the Jazz this season and it’s ironic considering the front office push that happened last year. Part of the disinterest comes from my applying for internships with basketball teams around the country but honestly the players really do make it so hard to watch.

Sad to see this even in Rudy and Donovan, and I don’t see a resolution for this issue currently.

[babyjax13]

Not entirely sure I agree. We looked really good without Conley, and I'm willing to say it was because he wasn't playing. When the ball isn't moving, we have problems, and the ball moves when Ingles and Mitchell are the point guards. Conley just pounds it aimlessly. He's always floating ten feet behind the line.

I just can't even begin to think about the offense when the defense has clearly been the much bigger issue. Are guys refusing to play defense because they're unhappy with the amount of touches/shots they're getting? Maybe...and I do think removing Conley fixes some of that. No one has been more negative on Conley's play this season.

But at the same time, you need guys who compete all the time and not just when they are being satisfied offensively. It's a major issue when guys admittedly don't compete, get embarrassed every night, and are still focused on getting their own shots and dribbles in.

I agree. The biggest culprits to me have been Ingles and Conley. As soon as you have two guys collectively playing 1/4 of the minutes on the court who aren't putting in the effort you have a problem that spreads to the whole team - because you can't pick up that much slack. Then you are where we are now.

[eLo]

well this team is in serious mess, this Conley experiment was short sigh, on paper it should look right but its not, plus it destroyed team chemistry etc. im only afraid that they now will stick to this not doing any moves mentality as last summer was even worst failure than some of previous ones when they did not much on fa market

[KqWIN]

Not entirely sure I agree. We looked really good without Conley, and I'm willing to say it was because he wasn't playing. When the ball isn't moving, we have problems, and the ball moves when Ingles and Mitchell are the point guards. Conley just pounds it aimlessly. He's always floating ten feet behind the line.

I just can't even begin to think about the offense when the defense has clearly been the much bigger issue. Are guys refusing to play defense because they're unhappy with the amount of touches/shots they're getting? Maybe...and I do think removing Conley fixes some of that. No one has been more negative on Conley's play this season.

But at the same time, you need guys who compete all the time and not just when they are being satisfied offensively. It's a major issue when guys admittedly don't compete, get embarrassed every night, and are still focused on getting their own shots and dribbles in.

I agree. The biggest culprits to me have been Ingles and Conley. As soon as you have two guys collectively playing 1/4 of the minutes on the court who aren't putting in the effort you have a problem that spreads to the whole team - because you can't pick up that much slack. Then you are where we are now.

There's no doubt that when Conley is in the game, it freezes out Ingles. We also just don't have many high effort players, and too many players whose only contribution is scoring. It's just not possible for everyone to get the ball as much as they want, which means we automatically have useless players every night. Bogey, Clarkson, and Conley can all have their nights, but those guys are useless outside of scoring and they can't all explode as scorers every night.

Ingles has definitely dropped off on defense, but I will spare him on that end because literally everyone has dropped off on defense, and he's been our only respectable perimeter defender for awhile. Royce is getting toasted every game. Bogey, Clarkson, and Conley are nightmares defensively.

[Tom349]

I mean, I agree that Conley was the worst move of the summer. It will severely set back this franchise (it already has). But acquiring Conley didn't make the entire team soft. These guys have no desire to win. Every player and Quin as well has acknowledged that the main issue is that they refuse to compete on defense. That's the issue and nobody cares to fix it.

They've completely given up. Quin has lost this team in a huge way. Nothing matters to these players except their individual moments on offense. But I guess that's what happens when you stack ball hogs on offense. Nobody on this team cares about winning more than their next opportunity on offense. Even Gobert and O'Neale have been laughably bad on defense.

Conley cannot be the only scapegoat for an entire team problem. If you don't have the desire to compete, you can't win. The first step is that the Jazz have to be willing to compete, and the players have collectively decided that competing is not something they are interested in. It's more favorable for them to get embarrassed every night and then tell the media afterwards that they need to try harder next time.

Then trade everyone who is an issue. Quin has already proven enough as a coach. Get rid of Conley... get rid of (as much as I love them) Bogey and Ingles...then get rid of everyone who can't defend (Bradley, Niang).

What has Quin seriously proven as a coach? I think we need to ask this question. I mean at face value he looks like he has done a good job but I seriously question how much that is simply Gobert being his savour on the defensive end. His first season we were awful until Rudy started getting minutes, in the games where Rudy has been out we've been awful in Quins time and when Rudy refuses to play hard like tonight we look bloody awful.

Im not saying Quin is a bad coach as there are things that he is very good at and we could easily be in worser hands but this is the first real roster he has had that should absolutely suit the way he wants to play and yet we look worse than we perhaps have ever had in Quins time here. I think Quin has as much to answer for as the players do. Is he being to soft on the players? do the players not agree with what he wants them to do? or are we simply playing a style of basketball that waste too many possessions when we have a number of players capable of creating their own shot and shots for others. I think that last one is a potential big one. Case in point Rudy has made the third most passes (2747) on any center in the league yet 22 centers have assisted their team mates more than Rudy (81). That is a lot of passes which serve zero purpose and eat up the shot clock on our offensive possessions. There are a lot of issues with the team at present and they mostly stem from effort but at the same time a lack of effort often stems from other issues and I do think the way we run our half court offense is one of those.