Too early to start Jazz playoff banter?

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Too early to start Jazz playoff banter? 

Post#1 » by MTJazzv3 » Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:08 am

Just wondering where everyone else here is but given the presumed resumption of the season, (and after corona-19 and social unrest and unemployment and economy and probably a meteor heading for earth), anyone here interested in doing some look-aheads assuming the Orlando Bubble Tournament comes off?

A couple things I've been thinking about:

Not really worried about the Rudy/Mitchell thing - soooo much has happened in everyone's world since then - time to go back to work?

Am I nuts, but I wouldn't mind seeing Clarkson start in absence of Bogey. While he feasts on second units and in my mind one of the best 6th men in the league this year - why not roll him out with the first unit? Jazz would still be facing teams down with 4 guys who can create/score, and then the Gobert factor (if they give him the ball).

Totally shake up the substitution rotations so starter/bench gets blurred in terms of minutes through 3 quarters in a Synder mix and match. Example: Mudiay, Royce, Bradley, Niang, Morgan, Tucker seeing unexpected situational minutes as long as there are still 2-3 creators on the floor. I'm not currently buying the "Jazz bench is weak" popular opinion (though admit it doesn't look like a championship bench. All about match-ups.

Big question marks??? Conley? (We good? He was coming on when the world ended). Is Ingles gonna be into it? (Good Ingles v unproductive Ingles could be a deal maker/breaker).

I don't think Jazz in semis is a ridiculous reach if enough rested Snyder wizard dust is on hand, but...Rox.
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Re: Too early to start Jazz playoff banter? 

Post#2 » by Inigo Montoya » Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:20 pm

Not too early at all.

I think the semi-finals are realistic, but that would only mean we stayed where we were before the trade. Same range of first or second round, depending on the matchups.
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KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.
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Re: Too early to start Jazz playoff banter? 

Post#3 » by KqWIN » Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:13 pm

I am much more concerned with the chemistry issues stemming from selfishness than those stemming from covid. Having Bogey out might actually help out in that regard, but I'm still skeptical that this is something that can be fixed with time away. They didn't care about winning before the season was suspended. I expect that the players will continue to prioritize their individual goals and needs before winning.

The covid story overshadowed (and rightfully so) the existing chemistry issues that were awful. Gobert quit on his team, they quit on him, and players/coaches were openly admitting that they didn't have their priorities straight. Don't think anyone was pointing the finger at themselves when making those comments.

Quin 100% lost the team. His command over the team isn't going to magically come back from this odd situation.
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Re: Too early to start Jazz playoff banter? 

Post#4 » by Catchall » Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:57 pm

I hope Brantley gets some run, at least during the exhibition games. He's someone who can create a mismatch and score on his own, something we'll need in the playoffs.
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Re: Too early to start Jazz playoff banter? 

Post#5 » by MTJazzv3 » Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:38 pm

Catchall wrote:I hope Brantley gets some run, at least during the exhibition games. He's someone who can create a mismatch and score on his own, something we'll need in the playoffs.


Totally agree with you on that. I think our bench is going to be very hungry and wouldn't be surprised if one or two guys earn themselves rotation time next year based on playoff performance. Bradley comes to mind as well - he seemed to be getting comfortable and was showing promise as a defender and rebounder.
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Re: Too early to start Jazz playoff banter? 

Post#6 » by MTJazzv3 » Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:46 pm

KqWIN wrote:I am much more concerned with the chemistry issues stemming from selfishness than those stemming from covid. Having Bogey out might actually help out in that regard, but I'm still skeptical that this is something that can be fixed with time away. They didn't care about winning before the season was suspended. I expect that the players will continue to prioritize their individual goals and needs before winning.

The covid story overshadowed (and rightfully so) the existing chemistry issues that were awful. Gobert quit on his team, they quit on him, and players/coaches were openly admitting that they didn't have their priorities straight. Don't think anyone was pointing the finger at themselves when making those comments.

Quin 100% lost the team. His command over the team isn't going to magically come back from this odd situation.


I see your point but not sure I believe Q lost the team. My hope is Mitchell and Gobert have had time to not only cool down but been chatting with their agents and mentors on how to manage playing with a teammate you don't like. If Gobert gets the whiny prima donna label its going to hurt his career. (I'd willfully forgotten him mailing it in a few games there). And if Mitchell wants to lead a locker room one day, he has to be more diplomatic?
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Re: Too early to start Jazz playoff banter? 

Post#7 » by GobertReport » Sat Jun 13, 2020 3:24 am

Mitchell said he may sit out.
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Re: Too early to start Jazz playoff banter? 

Post#8 » by MTJazzv3 » Sat Jun 13, 2020 4:33 pm

GobertReport wrote:Mitchell said he may sit out.


Say what? Source? What motivation would he have for that?
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Re: Too early to start Jazz playoff banter? 

Post#9 » by Inigo Montoya » Sat Jun 13, 2020 4:45 pm

MTJazzv3 wrote:
GobertReport wrote:Mitchell said he may sit out.


Say what? Source? What motivation would he have for that?

Not wanting to play with Gobert?

I haven't seen any reference to sitting out, only this article saying he's supporting not to continue the season.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/258431/Carmelo-Anthony-Dwight-Howard-Donovan-Mitchell-CJ-McCollum-Express-Desire-Not-To-Continue-Season
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KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.
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Re: Too early to start Jazz playoff banter? 

Post#10 » by KqWIN » Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:48 pm

Donovan denied on twitter, but every news source is reporting it. Lots of people heard him say it, and that's why everyone is able to report it.

Apparently his reasoning is that he is concerned about getting injured because he will soon receive a max contract offer. That is much different than wanting discontinue the season to keep the spotlight on social justice reforms or concerns about the coronavirus. Imagine your teammate sitting out on the playoffs to avoid injury before his max contract. Imagine being another player in the league listening to Donovan want to end the season because he's concerned about his personal max (meanwhile all players will face significant ramifications).

This is a very bad look for Mitchell imo. If Kyrie wants to cancel the season to keep the focus on police brutality and justice for minorities, I can respect that no matter how crazy some of his other ideas may be. If Ingles wants to sit out because he doesn't want corona to endanger himself and everyone around him, can't blame him. But cancelling the season to ensure you get the deal you want, while player salaries lost will total $1.2 Billion? Yeah...not great optics at all.


However, later in the call, Irving said he would stand with the group and travel to Disney World in Orlando if the players agreed that was the right call, sources said.

"If it's worth the risk, then let's go and do it," Irving said on the call, sources said. "But if you're not with it, it's OK, too. We've got options for both ways. Let's just come to a middle ground as a family."

Irving, along Carmelo Anthony, Dwight Howard and Donovan Mitchell, expressed their desire not to play at this juncture, sources said. Portland Trail Blazers star C.J. McCollum shared that he voted “no” on resuming the season in a group chat, but he stressed the importance of finishing the season out of fear the next CBA negotiations wouldn't be so kind to the players, sources said.

Howard said the time is now to take a stand and to use their collective power to implement change in the justice system and how police treat people of color instead of playing, sources said.

Mitchell, who is up for an extension this offseason, explained he's concerned with returning to play and injuring himself and thus jeopardizing his opportunity for a max deal, sources said.

Before the call, sources said, players were disappointed that they all were not given a vote on whether to return to play.

Mitchell explained that the young players feel as if they're not being listened to, sources said. Mo Bamba acknowledged some young players are intimidated to voice an opinion that's opposite of the superstars’, sources said. Anthony apologized and assured them that moving forward the platform would be for all to participate in, and throughout the call he asked for young players to let their voices be heard, sources said.

The players were enthusiastic about the number of participants on the call and vowed to gather together — even in Orlando — to continue the dialogue on ways to end racial injustice, sources said.

It was a much-needed galvanizing call, sources said.


https://sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/sources-players-express-their-doubts-in-conference-call-with-kyrie-irving-025109611.html?__twitter_impression=true
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Re: Too early to start Jazz playoff banter? 

Post#11 » by KqWIN » Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:03 pm

At the end of the day, Mitchell is going to go after his own agenda. I suppose that's fine, but from a Jazz perspective you have to be realistic about things and understand that his agenda does not include playing in Utah forever. He's going to seek brighter lights.

We will offer him a max and he will take it, but I think you're kidding yourself if you don't think he's the type of player who will force his way out.
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Re: Too early to start Jazz playoff banter? 

Post#12 » by eLo » Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:10 pm

About Jazz, after asg they where playing pretty bad, so id dont have any big playoff hopes, in this way i wouldn't mind if they would cancel the whole thing :) about Mitchell if its true they should trade him asap!
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Re: Too early to start Jazz playoff banter? 

Post#13 » by stitches » Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:15 pm

I'm getting closer and closer to the idea of annihilating this team. Just burn it to the ground. Whoever can return any assets, just trade them. There is so much toxicity in this team, I'm not sure anything is worth salvaging. When your best two players are the sources of that toxicity, where do you go from here? I'd be very eager to hear offers for anyone on that roster to be fair. I can't bring myself to watch another season of THIS.
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Re: Too early to start Jazz playoff banter? 

Post#14 » by sipclip » Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:00 pm

Mitchell's ego is definitely starting to become an issue. He had great advisers early on but as his stardom has grown we are starting to see the real Mitchell shine through and we all should be concerned about what we are seeing. Unless this team miraculously becomes a serious contender over the next few years then there is no way that he sticks around for a lower tier playoff team. The job that management has done destroying this teams future with wasting and trading draft picks is really something to behold. Unfortunately our media market is so damn soft that they can get away with this level of incompetence without upsetting most of the fan base.
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Re: Too early to start Jazz playoff banter? 

Post#15 » by Inigo Montoya » Sun Jun 14, 2020 5:01 pm

KqWIN wrote:Imagine your teammate sitting out on the playoffs to avoid injury before his max contract.


No need to imagine, just remember what happened with George Hill.

I can't say I blame Mitchell, Tatum, and the rest for wanting to insure themselves in case of a severe injury, but they knew even before the season started they'll be eligible for very large contracts, so they should and could have take out this sort of insurance beforehand if it was so important. And if they're worrying about injuries because they had three months off, well, they had the responsibility to stay in shape during that time. It's not like the league is adding more games to an 82-game season, they're just trying to get as close to the 82 to begin with, so it's not like suddenly there is more risk for injuries because there are more games. Besides, don't players get injured because of the grind of the season too? So now they had three months to heal and recover, so aren't they supposed to be in a better place physically to avoid injuries?
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KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.
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Re: Too early to start Jazz playoff banter? 

Post#16 » by MTJazzv3 » Sun Jun 14, 2020 5:32 pm

stitches wrote:I'm getting closer and closer to the idea of annihilating this team. Just burn it to the ground. Whoever can return any assets, just trade them. There is so much toxicity in this team, I'm not sure anything is worth salvaging. When your best two players are the sources of that toxicity, where do you go from here? I'd be very eager to hear offers for anyone on that roster to be fair. I can't bring myself to watch another season of THIS.


While I'm concerned, I'm not sure a toxic culture exists on the Jazz right now. It may...but I don't see the FO and coaching staff just sitting around wringing their hands as the team culturally implodes - I'm sure they are in daily contact with the entire team and have a far better pulse on things than we do? There are many high character guys on the roster - if Rudy and Mitchell have a beef going on, doesn't mean the rest of the team isn't talking to both telling them to be professionals to close out this season - then see where the chips fall for next year.
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Re: Too early to start Jazz playoff banter? 

Post#17 » by KqWIN » Sun Jun 14, 2020 6:43 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:
KqWIN wrote:Imagine your teammate sitting out on the playoffs to avoid injury before his max contract.


No need to imagine, just remember what happened with George Hill.

I can't say I blame Mitchell, Tatum, and the rest for wanting to insure themselves in case of a severe injury, but they knew even before the season started they'll be eligible for very large contracts, so they should and could have take out this sort of insurance beforehand if it was so important. And if they're worrying about injuries because they had three months off, well, they had the responsibility to stay in shape during that time. It's not like the league is adding more games to an 82-game season, they're just trying to get as close to the 82 to begin with, so it's not like suddenly there is more risk for injuries because there are more games. Besides, don't players get injured because of the grind of the season too? So now they had three months to heal and recover, so aren't they supposed to be in a better place physically to avoid injuries?


Let's suppose there is added injury risk. I still think it's pretty absurd for 4-5 draftees from 2017 to want to cancel the season for their individual contracts when it would cost all players $1.2 Billion (according to Bobby Marks).

I think an easy solution would be to let these players negotiate and sign contracts right now. There's enough time between now and the proposed season start date.
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Re: Too early to start Jazz playoff banter? 

Post#18 » by MTJazzv3 » Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:18 pm

Welp. From the RealGM Wiretap via Woj. "Bam Adebayo, D'Aaron Fox, Kyle Kuzma, Donovan Mitchell and Jayson Tatum had a call with Players Association officials over the possibility of receiving league-financed insurance policies that would protect them against career-threatening injuries suffered in Orlando."

Not a good look I mean really, "league-financed" with such a policy running to $500K for five 3rd year dudes? Umm, what about every other player in the league? Hope there is more nuance to this story...not gonna play well with the rest of the league much less the public.
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Re: Too early to start Jazz playoff banter? 

Post#19 » by Rauxcee » Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:04 pm

This has truly been one of my least favorite seasons. Our players becoming so unlikable only makes it worse.


Call me a bad fan, but I have zero interest in this season continuing.
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Re: Too early to start Jazz playoff banter? 

Post#20 » by KDBG » Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:59 am

stitches wrote:I'm getting closer and closer to the idea of annihilating this team. Just burn it to the ground. Whoever can return any assets, just trade them. There is so much toxicity in this team, I'm not sure anything is worth salvaging. When your best two players are the sources of that toxicity, where do you go from here? I'd be very eager to hear offers for anyone on that roster to be fair. I can't bring myself to watch another season of THIS.

If there were no pandemic, I probably wouldn't consider this. But with so much uncertainty, I wouldn't be totally against blowing it up. I mean, if a 2nd wave was even worse than expected, we could see a halt in playing sports for awhile. Our team would just be getting older while not playing.

This team is slightly better than the 16-17 team, but not as good as the D-Will/Booz teams at their peak. Imagine what kind of haul of picks and young players you could get for both Gobert and Mitchell. It seems crazy to think about trading two all-stars, but seeing how Luka, Zion, and Giannis are gonna run this league post LeBron, would it be so crazy to think about swinging for the fences seeing how we probably know the peak of this team? We did it with D-Will, and took the risk to get two lottery picks. Getting two top 5 picks in this years draft, plus future picks, is fairly realistic. Already I can think of interest from Golden State for Gobert, and New York for Mitchell.

That Mavs game back in January gave me such hope. I remember being a little hyperbolic, understandably, thinking we had a legit dominant 1-2 punch. Then, Kobe dies the next day, and 2020 just turned into an avalanche of bulls***.

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