Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2

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Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2 

Post#1 » by Inigo Montoya » Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:36 am

Continuing the previous thread that was about to hit 100 pages.
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KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2 

Post#2 » by stitches » Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:46 pm

With the impending retraction of the salary cap, we won't be able to get anyone any time soon. Conley gonna take the money and stay. I guess the biggest possible FA is Favors for the MLE if he wants to come back(there are some reports about him wanting back)
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2 

Post#3 » by KqWIN » Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:19 pm

Not sure we can even use the MLE if we plan on bringing Clarkson back.

I would not be opposed to signing Favors. I admittedly underrated the value of someone who is actually unselfish and puts the team over himself.

I’d hope that the Jazz try to get a little younger. Maybe find the next Christian Wood or Richaun Holmes.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2 

Post#4 » by Catchall » Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:55 pm

stitches wrote:With the impending retraction of the salary cap, we won't be able to get anyone any time soon. Conley gonna take the money and stay. I guess the biggest possible FA is Favors for the MLE if he wants to come back(there are some reports about him wanting back)


I don't think the Jazz want to bring back Favors. They seem happy with Bradley's development as a backup, and have been going in another direction at the PF spot. Maybe the Jazz would do it, but I think Favors would get limited minutes again.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2 

Post#5 » by KqWIN » Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:18 am

I have no faith in Tony Bradley. Even if he becomes really good at what he does, he's hopeless in a playoff situation. I think Morgan and Brantley are both better prospects and I would hope that they are getting a fair shot at minutes.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2 

Post#6 » by Catchall » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:04 am

KqWIN wrote:I have no faith in Tony Bradley. Even if he becomes really good at what he does, he's hopeless in a playoff situation. I think Morgan and Brantley are both better prospects and I would hope that they are getting a fair shot at minutes.


Dennis Lindsey seems to believe in him and thinks he's one of the best offensive rebounders in the league.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2 

Post#7 » by KqWIN » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:27 am

Catchall wrote:
KqWIN wrote:I have no faith in Tony Bradley. Even if he becomes really good at what he does, he's hopeless in a playoff situation. I think Morgan and Brantley are both better prospects and I would hope that they are getting a fair shot at minutes.


Dennis Lindsey seems to believe in him and thinks he's one of the best offensive rebounders in the league.


Yeah, and I think that's unfortunate. We committed a first round draft pick and several seasons of development that can't guard a cone.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2 

Post#8 » by Inigo Montoya » Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:07 pm

I'm not a fan of the Bradley pick but at least he does show improvement. However, our problems are bigger than who is our 2nd\3rd Gobert-reliever off the bench.
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KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

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Re: Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2 

Post#9 » by KqWIN » Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:56 am

If Conley doesn’t pull it together I’m still intrigued by a potential trade for a different (overpaid) player with more years on his deal. If he pulls it together, I suppose I have the same feelings.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2 

Post#10 » by Inigo Montoya » Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:31 pm

KqWIN wrote:If Conley doesn’t pull it together I’m still intrigued by a potential trade for a different (overpaid) player with more years on his deal. If he pulls it together, I suppose I have the same feelings.

Can that player at least be good this time around?
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KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

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Re: Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2 

Post#11 » by KqWIN » Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:38 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:
KqWIN wrote:If Conley doesn’t pull it together I’m still intrigued by a potential trade for a different (overpaid) player with more years on his deal. If he pulls it together, I suppose I have the same feelings.

Can that player at least be good this time around?


Depends on what you mean by good, but I don't think the Horford, Love, or Griffin will be so bad that you question whether or not we're better without them.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2 

Post#12 » by Catchall » Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:30 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:I'm not a fan of the Bradley pick but at least he does show improvement. However, our problems are bigger than who is our 2nd\3rd Gobert-reliever off the bench.


The Jazz just need one dynamic, two-way wing with some size and length. They have pretty much everything else with Mitchell, Bogey and Gobert as the mainstays, and Ingles and Royce as glue guys. Keep an eye on Paul Reed in the draft this year.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2 

Post#13 » by FJS » Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:21 pm

To have Favors would be sweet. He has not played too much in NOP, so playing as back up center and PF only vs teams with bigs ala Horford/Embiid or McGee, Davis, would be awesome.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2 

Post#14 » by babyjax13 » Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:17 pm

KqWIN wrote:
Inigo Montoya wrote:
KqWIN wrote:If Conley doesn’t pull it together I’m still intrigued by a potential trade for a different (overpaid) player with more years on his deal. If he pulls it together, I suppose I have the same feelings.

Can that player at least be good this time around?


Depends on what you mean by good, but I don't think the Horford, Love, or Griffin will be so bad that you question whether or not we're better without them.


I think Love might, and Horford just isn't a fit. If we moved for Griffin/Paul I wouldn't be crazy about it, but I'd understand.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2 

Post#15 » by KqWIN » Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:42 am

babyjax13 wrote:
KqWIN wrote:
Inigo Montoya wrote:Can that player at least be good this time around?


Depends on what you mean by good, but I don't think the Horford, Love, or Griffin will be so bad that you question whether or not we're better without them.


I think Love might, and Horford just isn't a fit. If we moved for Griffin/Paul I wouldn't be crazy about it, but I'd understand.


I think Horford is fine. Good 4/5 combo who can space/move the ball with Gobert and take over when he's out of the game. If it weren't for his age, I'd honestly be all for it. I think this one actually has good potential. Elton Brand has proven to be aggressive. He's not afraid to make moves even if they questionable. With Ben moving to 'PF', they are clearly moving away from Horford and might be interested in Conley. I could see them giving us a pick in addition to Horford for Conley.

Love is a player I've thought has ben underrated for awhile. Questions are there about his body holding up, but from a health and fit perspective I think he's a better risk than Griffin.

Paul...we can't get him. He's actually good, and the Jazz missed their chance.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2 

Post#16 » by babyjax13 » Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:45 am

KqWIN wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
KqWIN wrote:
Depends on what you mean by good, but I don't think the Horford, Love, or Griffin will be so bad that you question whether or not we're better without them.


I think Love might, and Horford just isn't a fit. If we moved for Griffin/Paul I wouldn't be crazy about it, but I'd understand.


I think Horford is fine. Good 4/5 combo who can space/move the ball with Gobert and take over when he's out of the game. If it weren't for his age, I'd honestly be all for it. I think this one actually has good potential. Elton Brand has proven to be aggressive. He's not afraid to make moves even if they questionable. With Ben moving to 'PF', they are clearly moving away from Horford and might be interested in Conley. I could see them giving us a pick in addition to Horford for Conley.

Love is a player I've thought has ben underrated for awhile. Questions are there about his body holding up, but from a health and fit perspective I think he's a better risk than Griffin.

Paul...we can't get him. He's actually good, and the Jazz missed their chance.


Horford is not viable at power forward anymore, that's the problem in Philly. Per Paul, I'd hate to have his contract, I'm glad we didn't make that trade if it were available.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2 

Post#17 » by Catchall » Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:00 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
KqWIN wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
I think Love might, and Horford just isn't a fit. If we moved for Griffin/Paul I wouldn't be crazy about it, but I'd understand.


I think Horford is fine. Good 4/5 combo who can space/move the ball with Gobert and take over when he's out of the game. If it weren't for his age, I'd honestly be all for it. I think this one actually has good potential. Elton Brand has proven to be aggressive. He's not afraid to make moves even if they questionable. With Ben moving to 'PF', they are clearly moving away from Horford and might be interested in Conley. I could see them giving us a pick in addition to Horford for Conley.

Love is a player I've thought has ben underrated for awhile. Questions are there about his body holding up, but from a health and fit perspective I think he's a better risk than Griffin.

Paul...we can't get him. He's actually good, and the Jazz missed their chance.


Horford is not viable at power forward anymore, that's the problem in Philly. Per Paul, I'd hate to have his contract, I'm glad we didn't make that trade if it were available.


Yeah, Horford is especially limited off the dribble. He would be considered a PF maybe 20 years ago, but not where the league is headed. Today's 4s are really big wings.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2 

Post#18 » by KqWIN » Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:08 pm

Catchall wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
KqWIN wrote:
I think Horford is fine. Good 4/5 combo who can space/move the ball with Gobert and take over when he's out of the game. If it weren't for his age, I'd honestly be all for it. I think this one actually has good potential. Elton Brand has proven to be aggressive. He's not afraid to make moves even if they questionable. With Ben moving to 'PF', they are clearly moving away from Horford and might be interested in Conley. I could see them giving us a pick in addition to Horford for Conley.

Love is a player I've thought has ben underrated for awhile. Questions are there about his body holding up, but from a health and fit perspective I think he's a better risk than Griffin.

Paul...we can't get him. He's actually good, and the Jazz missed their chance.


Horford is not viable at power forward anymore, that's the problem in Philly. Per Paul, I'd hate to have his contract, I'm glad we didn't make that trade if it were available.


Yeah, Horford is especially limited off the dribble. He would be considered a PF maybe 20 years ago, but not where the league is headed. Today's 4s are really big wings.


I don’t think being limited off the dribble matters. We definitely don’t need another player who wants to play off the bounce, that is our number one issue. Everyone wants the ball.

Horford is a really smart player who can keep the ball moving and make good decisions. Unlike almost players on our team, he’s first instinct isn’t going to set up his own play when he catches the ball.

He was good in Boston because they played a team game. PHI was tougher because they don’t and either Ben/Embiid dominate the ball and he just kind of stands there.

Defensively, it’s still preferable to have two bigs. We pushed the limits of Gobert+nobody else plays defense too far. The Bucks are really ahead of the curve on the important e of protecting the rim first, and I hope we’re not going to be late on that bandwagon.

If we had more players like Horford, who are actually there to benefit the team, we’d be a much better team.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2 

Post#19 » by sipclip » Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:15 pm

KqWIN wrote:
Catchall wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
Horford is not viable at power forward anymore, that's the problem in Philly. Per Paul, I'd hate to have his contract, I'm glad we didn't make that trade if it were available.


Yeah, Horford is especially limited off the dribble. He would be considered a PF maybe 20 years ago, but not where the league is headed. Today's 4s are really big wings.


I don’t think being limited off the dribble matters. We definitely don’t need another player who wants to play off the bounce, that is our number one issue. Everyone wants the ball.

Horford is a really smart player who can keep the ball moving and make good decisions. Unlike almost players on our team, he’s first instinct isn’t going to set up his own play when he catches the ball.

He was good in Boston because they played a team game. PHI was tougher because they don’t and either Ben/Embiid dominate the ball and he just kind of stands there.

Defensively, it’s still preferable to have two bigs. We pushed the limits of Gobert+nobody else plays defense too far. The Bucks are really ahead of the curve on the important e of protecting the rim first, and I hope we’re not going to be late on that bandwagon.

If we had more players like Horford, who are actually there to benefit the team, we’d be a much better team.


The Horford that you are describing doesn't really exist anymore. He is at that age where you see bigs begin to fall off really fast and we have already seen a pretty noticeable decline over the last 2 years. Also I don't think it is preferable to have 2 bigs defensively unless one is a freak of nature defensively like Giannis or Anthony Davis who are strong defenders on the perimeter and interior.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2 

Post#20 » by KqWIN » Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:46 pm

sipclip wrote:
KqWIN wrote:
Catchall wrote:
Yeah, Horford is especially limited off the dribble. He would be considered a PF maybe 20 years ago, but not where the league is headed. Today's 4s are really big wings.


I don’t think being limited off the dribble matters. We definitely don’t need another player who wants to play off the bounce, that is our number one issue. Everyone wants the ball.

Horford is a really smart player who can keep the ball moving and make good decisions. Unlike almost players on our team, he’s first instinct isn’t going to set up his own play when he catches the ball.

He was good in Boston because they played a team game. PHI was tougher because they don’t and either Ben/Embiid dominate the ball and he just kind of stands there.

Defensively, it’s still preferable to have two bigs. We pushed the limits of Gobert+nobody else plays defense too far. The Bucks are really ahead of the curve on the important e of protecting the rim first, and I hope we’re not going to be late on that bandwagon.

If we had more players like Horford, who are actually there to benefit the team, we’d be a much better team.


The Horford that you are describing doesn't really exist anymore. He is at that age where you see bigs begin to fall off really fast and we have already seen a pretty noticeable decline over the last 2 years. Also I don't think it is preferable to have 2 bigs defensively unless one is a freak of nature defensively like Giannis or Anthony Davis who are strong defenders on the perimeter and interior.


I don't see the noticeable decline over the past two seasons. His 18/19 campaign was arguably one of the better seasons in his career. Horford wasn't even a bad player this season. He's still a very good defender and I'm confident he would have have a better offensive season in a better system despite getting one year older.

Some time soon the NBA is going to learn how to do math again and realize the importance of defending the rim. Having another rim defender on the court is way more valuable than people currently think because we simply don't value the importance of protecting the rim enough. Also, I think we need to give big men more credit in general for their ability to close off space and rotate in general...which is more important than guarding the ball.

Having Rudy+Horford would be just like having Rudy+Favors...which was ridiculously strong defensively. The difference is that Horford can still be a positive offensive player next to Rudy unlike Favs. Rudy +4 guys who don't help just isn't going to get it done.

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