Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2

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Re: Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2 

Post#81 » by KqWIN » Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:53 am

GobertReport wrote:
KqWIN wrote:
GobertReport wrote:
I’m pretty sure we will have the Full MLE.


We do, but we can’t use it if we bring back Clarkson. We are not going to be a tax team, and if we are it means we’d only have the tax paying MLE.

So the only real options this off season are resign Clarkson, or let Clarkson go and use MLE plus BAE.


What does his contract have to be at to be below tax?



We have about $12 until the tax. That's right around where you would expect his cap number at. So even if we off Ed Davis, we still have only about $5M to use the MLE. Reality is the Jazz already took their shot and failed miserably.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2 

Post#82 » by babyjax13 » Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:01 am

Jazz salaries:
Conley $34,504,132
Gobert $26,525,891
Bogdanovic $17,850,000
Ingles $10,863,637
O'neale $8,035,714
Mitchell $5,195,105
Davis $5,005,350
Bradley $3,542,060
[rookie scale salary] $2,193,480
Niang $1,783,557 (ung)
Williams-Goss $1,517,981 (ung)
Oni $1,517,981 (ung)
Tucker $1,517,981 (ung)
Total: $120,052,655

RFAs
Rayjon Tucker
Jarell Brantley
Juwan Morgan
Justin Wright-Foreman

UFAs
Jordan Clarkson
Emmanuel Mudiay

NVA


The two alternatives are that the cap increases to $115 million and the tax increases to $139 million, or the cap stays at $109.1 million and the tax stays at $132.6 million. In the event that the cap does not increase, we can move Ed Davis, sign Clakson to something like $11,000,000 per year and use the BAE. In the event that it does, we can move Davis, and use both the BAE and MLE.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2 

Post#83 » by GobertReport » Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:29 am

What if we renegotiate Conleys contract? A 4 year 70 mill?
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2 

Post#84 » by KqWIN » Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:05 am

babyjax13 wrote:
Jazz salaries:
Conley $34,504,132
Gobert $26,525,891
Bogdanovic $17,850,000
Ingles $10,863,637
O'neale $8,035,714
Mitchell $5,195,105
Davis $5,005,350
Bradley $3,542,060
[rookie scale salary] $2,193,480
Niang $1,783,557 (ung)
Williams-Goss $1,517,981 (ung)
Oni $1,517,981 (ung)
Tucker $1,517,981 (ung)
Total: $120,052,655

RFAs
Rayjon Tucker
Jarell Brantley
Juwan Morgan
Justin Wright-Foreman

UFAs
Jordan Clarkson
Emmanuel Mudiay

NVA


The two alternatives are that the cap increases to $115 million and the tax increases to $139 million, or the cap stays at $109.1 million and the tax stays at $132.6 million. In the event that the cap does not increase, we can move Ed Davis, sign Clakson to something like $11,000,000 per year and use the BAE. In the event that it does, we can move Davis, and use both the BAE and MLE.



For some reason I had $129 M in my head, but you're right the projection is at $139 M. It's probably not going to rise, however, because of the massive revenue losses. At $132 Clarkson + another player at whatever is left is reasonable.

I'm not sure trading two future seconds is enough to get rid of Davis or worth it. The stretch provision might be a better play here. If I have this right, his contract would be spread over 3 seasons (double plus one) which means it would only count for $1.6 over the next 3 years. Not tragic in the long term, but it does open up $3.3 this year which is about the BAE.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2 

Post#85 » by Inigo Montoya » Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:15 pm

GobertReport wrote:What if we renegotiate Conleys contract? A 4 year 70 mill?

We are a season away from being free of his huge contract and underwhelming play. Let's not stretch it out for an additional 4 years. He's also not worth $17.5M per season.
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KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2 

Post#86 » by GobertReport » Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:03 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:
GobertReport wrote:What if we renegotiate Conleys contract? A 4 year 70 mill?

We are a season away from being free of his huge contract and underwhelming play. Let's not stretch it out for an additional 4 years. He's also not worth $17.5M per season.


True, true, sad part is that even when his contract comes off the books we will not have the room anyways, so if you can renegotiate him into a reasonable deal, you might as well.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2 

Post#87 » by Inigo Montoya » Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:16 pm

GobertReport wrote:
Inigo Montoya wrote:
GobertReport wrote:What if we renegotiate Conleys contract? A 4 year 70 mill?

We are a season away from being free of his huge contract and underwhelming play. Let's not stretch it out for an additional 4 years. He's also not worth $17.5M per season.


True, true, sad part is that even when his contract comes off the books we will not have the room anyways, so if you can renegotiate him into a reasonable deal, you might as well.

I have no interest in prolonging the mediocrity of this team. Time to rock the boat.
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KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2 

Post#88 » by GobertReport » Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:31 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:
GobertReport wrote:
Inigo Montoya wrote:We are a season away from being free of his huge contract and underwhelming play. Let's not stretch it out for an additional 4 years. He's also not worth $17.5M per season.


True, true, sad part is that even when his contract comes off the books we will not have the room anyways, so if you can renegotiate him into a reasonable deal, you might as well.

I have no interest in prolonging the mediocrity of this team. Time to rock the boat.


I’m there with you but the only way to rock the boat is to trade Ingles or Gobert as they are our only tradable assets, DL has sat on his hands too many times and it now has screwed us, we should have traded Hayward for Jaylen Brown when we had the chance.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2 

Post#89 » by SoCalJazzFan » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:35 pm

This might be a crazy, stupid trade, or crazy like a fox trade.

Pistons get:
Mike Conley
Joe Ingles
Ed Davis
Tony Bradley

Jazz get:
Blake Griffin
possibly a 1st rd pick

Why?
Detroit- they free up major cap space in 2021/22 which allows them to go full on into rebuild mode. They will have Conley, Ingles, and Rose to acquire more assets at the trade deadline, and ensure another good draft pick in 2021.

Jazz- Blake Griffin is a serious gamble given his injury history. In fact, he had two surgeries within 8 months on the same left knee in April of 2019 and Jan of 2020. Given his contract, his stock has probably never been lower.

However, just in 2018/19, he finished the 2018-19 season with averages of 24.5 points, 7.5 rebounds, 5.4 assists, and 2.5 three-point field goals made per game (.462/.362/.753) becoming an All-Star and an All-NBA Third Team honoree. With nearly a year to recover from his knee surgeries (athletes return from ACL surgeries within a year), if he can get back to that form, he could be the missing link to the Jazz competing for the whole enchilada.

Moreover, the Jazz would free up $17M in cap space this year, allowing them to build decent depth.

The Jazz could get a 1st rd pick if the rumors of the Celtics trading #14, #26 and #30 for the Pistons #7 come to fruition, with the Jazz picking up the #30 pick.

On the down side, in 2021/22 the Jazz will probably have one of the highest team salaries in the league, so if Griffin is not in All Star form and the Jazz in the WCF, he is the worst contract in the NBA, and the Jazz would be tax payers that year to add insult to injury. However, that pain would last just one year, unless the Jazz turned the $39M player option into something like a 2 yr $50M contract.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2 

Post#90 » by babyjax13 » Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:32 am

SoCalJazzFan wrote:This might be a crazy, stupid trade, or crazy like a fox trade.

Pistons get:
Mike Conley
Joe Ingles
Ed Davis
Tony Bradley

Jazz get:
Blake Griffin
possibly a 1st rd pick

Why?
Detroit- they free up major cap space in 2021/22 which allows them to go full on into rebuild mode. They will have Conley, Ingles, and Rose to acquire more assets at the trade deadline, and ensure another good draft pick in 2021.

Jazz- Blake Griffin is a serious gamble given his injury history. In fact, he had two surgeries within 8 months on the same left knee in April of 2019 and Jan of 2020. Given his contract, his stock has probably never been lower.

However, just in 2018/19, he finished the 2018-19 season with averages of 24.5 points, 7.5 rebounds, 5.4 assists, and 2.5 three-point field goals made per game (.462/.362/.753) becoming an All-Star and an All-NBA Third Team honoree. With nearly a year to recover from his knee surgeries (athletes return from ACL surgeries within a year), if he can get back to that form, he could be the missing link to the Jazz competing for the whole enchilada.

Moreover, the Jazz would free up $17M in cap space this year, allowing them to build decent depth.

The Jazz could get a 1st rd pick if the rumors of the Celtics trading #14, #26 and #30 for the Pistons #7 come to fruition, with the Jazz picking up the #30 pick.

On the down side, in 2021/22 the Jazz will probably have one of the highest team salaries in the league, so if Griffin is not in All Star form and the Jazz in the WCF, he is the worst contract in the NBA, and the Jazz would be tax payers that year to add insult to injury. However, that pain would last just one year, unless the Jazz turned the $39M player option into something like a 2 yr $50M contract.



This is a trade a rebuilding team makes. Griffin is perpetually injured, and we are trading three rotation players for him.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2 

Post#91 » by babyjax13 » Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:22 am

I wonder if we can trade for Oladipo...I think we have good enough assets.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2 

Post#92 » by GobertReport » Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:09 am

babyjax13 wrote:I wonder if we can trade for Oladipo...I think we have good enough assets.


I think we can but our assets are Gobert and Ingles, and I don’t think Ingles is anywhere near Dipo in value
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2 

Post#93 » by babyjax13 » Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:59 am

GobertReport wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:I wonder if we can trade for Oladipo...I think we have good enough assets.


I think we can but our assets are Gobert and Ingles, and I don’t think Ingles is anywhere near Dipo in value


I think Ingles + 1st + Conley in conjunction with taking back some bad salary may be enough. Ingles would probably be going to a third team for a mid first.
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JazzMatt13 wrote:just because I think aliens probably have to do with JFK, doesn't mean my theory that Jazz will never get Wiggins, isn't true.

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Re: Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2 

Post#94 » by GobertReport » Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:10 am

babyjax13 wrote:
GobertReport wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:I wonder if we can trade for Oladipo...I think we have good enough assets.


I think we can but our assets are Gobert and Ingles, and I don’t think Ingles is anywhere near Dipo in value


I think Ingles + 1st + Conley in conjunction with taking back some bad salary may be enough. Ingles would probably be going to a third team for a mid first.


Maybe, who’s a 25 mill bad contract?
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2 

Post#95 » by babyjax13 » Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:41 am

GobertReport wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
GobertReport wrote:
I think we can but our assets are Gobert and Ingles, and I don’t think Ingles is anywhere near Dipo in value


I think Ingles + 1st + Conley in conjunction with taking back some bad salary may be enough. Ingles would probably be going to a third team for a mid first.


Maybe, who’s a 25 mill bad contract?


I was thinking more like

Utah trades: Ingles, Conley, Davis, 2020 1st (23)
Receives: Oladipo, Lamb, McDermott

Team X trades: XXX, mid-first
Team X receives: Joe Ingles

OKC trades: Chris Paul
OKC receives: Mike Conley, Ed Davis

Indiana trades: Oladipo, Lamb, McDermott
Indiana receives: Paul, picks
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2 

Post#96 » by SoCalJazzFan » Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:48 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
SoCalJazzFan wrote:This might be a crazy, stupid trade, or crazy like a fox trade.

Pistons get:
Mike Conley
Joe Ingles
Ed Davis
Tony Bradley

Jazz get:
Blake Griffin
possibly a 1st rd pick

Why?
Detroit- they free up major cap space in 2021/22 which allows them to go full on into rebuild mode. They will have Conley, Ingles, and Rose to acquire more assets at the trade deadline, and ensure another good draft pick in 2021.

Jazz- Blake Griffin is a serious gamble given his injury history. In fact, he had two surgeries within 8 months on the same left knee in April of 2019 and Jan of 2020. Given his contract, his stock has probably never been lower.

However, just in 2018/19, he finished the 2018-19 season with averages of 24.5 points, 7.5 rebounds, 5.4 assists, and 2.5 three-point field goals made per game (.462/.362/.753) becoming an All-Star and an All-NBA Third Team honoree. With nearly a year to recover from his knee surgeries (athletes return from ACL surgeries within a year), if he can get back to that form, he could be the missing link to the Jazz competing for the whole enchilada.

Moreover, the Jazz would free up $17M in cap space this year, allowing them to build decent depth.

The Jazz could get a 1st rd pick if the rumors of the Celtics trading #14, #26 and #30 for the Pistons #7 come to fruition, with the Jazz picking up the #30 pick.

On the down side, in 2021/22 the Jazz will probably have one of the highest team salaries in the league, so if Griffin is not in All Star form and the Jazz in the WCF, he is the worst contract in the NBA, and the Jazz would be tax payers that year to add insult to injury. However, that pain would last just one year, unless the Jazz turned the $39M player option into something like a 2 yr $50M contract.



This is a trade a rebuilding team makes. Griffin is perpetually injured, and we are trading three rotation players for him.

I would characterize it as a trade a team gambling to make the WCF or Finals considers making with their star on the final year of his rookie contract.

If Griffin could return to any where near the form he was just two years ago in 2018/19, when he played 75 games and was an All Star, it could pull the Jazz over the top. The added bench depth due to cap space would be a bonus.

Davis and Bradley are easily replaced by minimum contracts or BAE or MLE if replaced with someone like Favors. Ingles could be replaced with someone cheaper (which is why he is included and also due to his $14M salary in his final year). For example, Alec Burks played for $2.3M this past year and was arguably as good as Ingles. Including these players frees up $17.8M this offseason and could reduce the team salary the next season. Maybe Ingles isn't included.

If Griffin didn't return to form and/or was injured a ton, the team would probably still make the playoffs, but the Jazz would pay a pretty penny for the gamble in Griffin's final contract year.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2 

Post#97 » by SoCalJazzFan » Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:50 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
GobertReport wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
I think Ingles + 1st + Conley in conjunction with taking back some bad salary may be enough. Ingles would probably be going to a third team for a mid first.


Maybe, who’s a 25 mill bad contract?


I was thinking more like

Utah trades: Ingles, Conley, Davis, 2020 1st (23)
Receives: Oladipo, Lamb, McDermott

Team X trades: XXX, mid-first
Team X receives: Joe Ingles

OKC trades: Chris Paul
OKC receives: Mike Conley, Ed Davis

Indiana trades: Oladipo, Lamb, McDermott
Indiana receives: Paul, picks

I doubt Ingles is worth a FRP. Maybe a couple of years back, but not based on the last year or two.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2 

Post#98 » by SoCalJazzFan » Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:23 pm

What about:

Jazz in- Griffin, #7 Pistons pick, #34 76ers pick

Pistons in- Tobias Harris, Ed Davis, Jazz #23 pick, 2021 or 2022 76ers FRP

76ers in- Conley
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2 

Post#99 » by sipclip » Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:34 am

Blake Griffin is a non starter for me. I don't trust him to be healthy ever again. I think his career is basically a 12 point 7 rebound big for a few years and then out of the league because of his knees.
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Re: Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2 

Post#100 » by SoCalJazzFan » Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:19 pm

sipclip wrote:Blake Griffin is a non starter for me. I don't trust him to be healthy ever again. I think his career is basically a 12 point 7 rebound big for a few years and then out of the league because of his knees.

It is a valid concern, for sure. I just question how high the ceiling is with this team, even with Bogey back, and the possibility that it will be lower once Conley is gone.

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