Round 1, Game 1: Utah Jazz @ Denver Nuggets

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Re: Round 1, Game 1: Utah Jazz @ Denver Nuggets 

Post#21 » by babyjax13 » Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:47 pm

El Hespiritu wrote:DEN isn't great at all playing pick up defense. Without Gharris and Barton it just doesn't work.
But when they go zone with bigger lineups, they are intriguing.

Tried from time to time at The Bubble and looked raw and hesitant... they had no practice sessions enough to shape it.

I dont know if Mike The MaloOne gave up about that.

If they can eventually conoct a more or less functional zone defense, that could be a pain in the ass for Utah (hardly the greatest 3p team ever).

If they don't, I think Jazz has a good chance.

Unless The Joker and Murray gets on fire during the serie, of course.

In that case it's just done whatever Snyder tries.
I don't know about stats but my sensation is you're playing your worst defense in last four years or so.


If they run a zone we have like 7 players who shoot 40+% on catch and shoot threes, we will murder them.
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Re: Round 1, Game 1: Utah Jazz @ Denver Nuggets 

Post#22 » by stitches » Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:55 pm

Seems like Mike Conley has already left the bubble for the birth of his son and will miss at least the first 2 games and very likely the first 3 games:
Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter
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Re: Round 1, Game 1: Utah Jazz @ Denver Nuggets 

Post#23 » by NuggetsWY » Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:01 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
Catchall wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:I'm also predicting Denver in 6, but if we win it won't be a shock. I can't say that about us in just about any other matchup.


Jokic is going to have to be otherworldly, MPJ is going to have to be pretty consistent, and Jerami Grant is going to have to score some points for the Nuggets to win this. I'd feel pretty confident if I were the Jazz.


Denver is deep, and if Barton is back, they will be tough. MPJ has been fantastic, Jokic is obviously amazing, and they also have Murray. If I had to rate players

Jokic>Gobert
Murray<Mitchell
MPJ>Conley
Barton = Ingles
Grant<O'neale
Plumlee>Bradley
Morris<Clarkson
Millsap>Niang
Craig>Brantley

If Harris comes back, that's where they really start to get separation from us.

If someone from the "evil kingdom" may comment on the player comparisons. I mostly agree with babyjax13:

Jokic>Gobert
Murray<Mitchell
MPJ>Conley
Barton = Ingles --- not sure Barton will be back and I'd rank Ingles better overall (Barton on offense though)
Grant<O'neale --- I think I might rank these two even - but O'neale seems more consistent so maybe not
Plumlee>Bradley
Morris<Clarkson
Millsap>Niang
Craig>Brantley

Here's the deal, in my opinion: The Jazz game is all about team play, especially on offense. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts. Both teams are missing key players: Harris, Barton --- Conley, Bogdanovic. As much as Denver misses their guys, I think the impact on Utah is greater.

I've said I expect Denver to win in five and hope it doesn't go six. Yes, I believe Utah could win. No, I do not believe it will happen.
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Re: Round 1, Game 1: Utah Jazz @ Denver Nuggets 

Post#24 » by stitches » Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:04 pm

I can't fault Conley for that. This is a decision you make 100 out of 100 times... but it's still super frustrating for the fans....

From our acquisitions in last off-season we will get the following contributions for the playoffs:
1. Bogdanovic - 0
2. Conley - 0 for the first 3 games
3. Ed Davis - 0
4. Jeff Green - 0
5. Mudiay ... hopefully not negative contribution
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Re: Round 1, Game 1: Utah Jazz @ Denver Nuggets 

Post#25 » by Catchall » Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:17 pm

stitches wrote:Seems like Mike Conley has already left the bubble for the birth of his son and is very likely to miss at least the first 2 games and very likely the first 3 games:
Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


Oh ****.
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Re: Round 1, Game 1: Utah Jazz @ Denver Nuggets 

Post#26 » by Catchall » Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:23 pm

NuggetsWY wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
Catchall wrote:
Jokic is going to have to be otherworldly, MPJ is going to have to be pretty consistent, and Jerami Grant is going to have to score some points for the Nuggets to win this. I'd feel pretty confident if I were the Jazz.


Denver is deep, and if Barton is back, they will be tough. MPJ has been fantastic, Jokic is obviously amazing, and they also have Murray. If I had to rate players

Jokic>Gobert
Murray<Mitchell
MPJ>Conley
Barton = Ingles
Grant<O'neale
Plumlee>Bradley
Morris<Clarkson
Millsap>Niang
Craig>Brantley

If Harris comes back, that's where they really start to get separation from us.

If someone from the "evil kingdom" may comment on the player comparisons. I mostly agree with babyjax13:

Jokic>Gobert
Murray<Mitchell
MPJ>Conley
Barton = Ingles --- not sure Barton will be back and I'd rank Ingles better overall (Barton on offense though)
Grant<O'neale --- I think I might rank these two even - but O'neale seems more consistent so maybe not
Plumlee>Bradley
Morris<Clarkson
Millsap>Niang
Craig>Brantley

Here's the deal, in my opinion: The Jazz game is all about team play, especially on offense. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts. Both teams are missing key players: Harris, Barton --- Conley, Bogdanovic. As much as Denver misses their guys, I think the impact on Utah is greater.

I've said I expect Denver to win in five and hope it doesn't go six. Yes, I believe Utah could win. No, I do not believe it will happen.


The big question hanging over Denver is the state of their defense. The Nuggets gave up an average of 123 ppg during their bubble games. They were worse than the Wizards, Kings and depleted Nets. Murray, Jokic and MPJ on the floor at the same time is going to be rough defensively.
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Re: Round 1, Game 1: Utah Jazz @ Denver Nuggets 

Post#27 » by stitches » Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:27 pm

Seems like Conley's son has already been born:
Read on Twitter


That's great. Congrats to Mike and and his wife :)
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Re: Round 1, Game 1: Utah Jazz @ Denver Nuggets 

Post#28 » by NuggetsWY » Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:42 pm

Catchall wrote:The big question hanging over Denver is the state of their defense. The Nuggets gave up an average of 123 ppg during their bubble games. Murray, Jokic and MPJ on the floor at the same time is going to be rough defensively.

Defense? :confused: Defense? :pray: Defense? :meditate: I knew I forgot something. :lol:

I noticed someone over here talking about Denver missing Barton on defense: probably not. His defense amounts to occasional spectacular plays interspersed with a few decent plays and a lot of watching the back of someone heading toward the basket. :banghead:

Jokic & Murray are both better than they are given credit for. Jokic is hard to move, has great hands, and is usually in a decent slot - for paint & one-on-one. Like most bigs, he's vulnerable in pick-n-rolls -- Gobert not as vulnerable but even he isn't staying in front of players like Murray. That's a team deal. --- Murray's not great but his head is usually on a swivel and he'll get physical if a big posts up on him.

Plumlee, Grant, Millsap all tend to be at least acceptable. Craig isn't as great as his reputation, but he's still quite good.

Porter tries hard but has a lot to learn.

Denver's biggest defensive problem is what some term; "Help the Helper". First rotation can be decent, but after that ...

So you are exactly correct - because all of that was true and became worse in the bubble.
Catchall wrote:The big question hanging over Denver is the state of their defense. The Nuggets gave up an average of 123 ppg during their bubble games. Murray, Jokic and MPJ on the floor at the same time is going to be rough defensively.
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Re: Round 1, Game 1: Utah Jazz @ Denver Nuggets 

Post#29 » by babyjax13 » Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:49 pm

NuggetsWY wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
Catchall wrote:
Jokic is going to have to be otherworldly, MPJ is going to have to be pretty consistent, and Jerami Grant is going to have to score some points for the Nuggets to win this. I'd feel pretty confident if I were the Jazz.


Denver is deep, and if Barton is back, they will be tough. MPJ has been fantastic, Jokic is obviously amazing, and they also have Murray. If I had to rate players

Jokic>Gobert
Murray<Mitchell
MPJ>Conley
Barton = Ingles
Grant<O'neale
Plumlee>Bradley
Morris<Clarkson
Millsap>Niang
Craig>Brantley

If Harris comes back, that's where they really start to get separation from us.

If someone from the "evil kingdom" may comment on the player comparisons. I mostly agree with babyjax13:

Jokic>Gobert
Murray<Mitchell
MPJ>Conley
Barton = Ingles --- not sure Barton will be back and I'd rank Ingles better overall (Barton on offense though)
Grant<O'neale --- I think I might rank these two even - but O'neale seems more consistent so maybe not
Plumlee>Bradley
Morris<Clarkson
Millsap>Niang
Craig>Brantley

Here's the deal, in my opinion: The Jazz game is all about team play, especially on offense. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts. Both teams are missing key players: Harris, Barton --- Conley, Bogdanovic. As much as Denver misses their guys, I think the impact on Utah is greater.

I've said I expect Denver to win in five and hope it doesn't go six. Yes, I believe Utah could win. No, I do not believe it will happen.


If the Nuggets beat us I will be rooting for them. I love watching their unorthodox play.
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Re: Round 1, Game 1: Utah Jazz @ Denver Nuggets 

Post#30 » by Catchall » Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:53 pm

NuggetsWY wrote:
Catchall wrote:The big question hanging over Denver is the state of their defense. The Nuggets gave up an average of 123 ppg during their bubble games. Murray, Jokic and MPJ on the floor at the same time is going to be rough defensively.

Defense? :confused: Defense? :pray: Defense? :meditate: I knew I forgot something. :lol:

I noticed someone over here talking about Denver missing Barton on defense: probably not. His defense amounts to occasional spectacular plays interspersed with a few decent plays and a lot of watching the back of someone heading toward the basket. :banghead:

Jokic & Murray are both better than they are given credit for. Jokic is hard to move, has great hands, and is usually in a decent slot - for paint & one-on-one. Like most bigs, he's vulnerable in pick-n-rolls -- Gobert not as vulnerable but even he isn't staying in front of players like Murray. That's a team deal. --- Murray's not great but his head is usually on a swivel and he'll get physical if a big posts up on him.

Plumlee, Grant, Millsap all tend to be at least acceptable. Craig isn't as great as his reputation, but he's still quite good.

Porter tries hard but has a lot to learn.

Denver's biggest defensive problem is what some term; "Help the Helper". First rotation can be decent, but after that ...

So you are exactly correct - because all of that was true and became worse in the bubble.
Catchall wrote:The big question hanging over Denver is the state of their defense. The Nuggets gave up an average of 123 ppg during their bubble games. Murray, Jokic and MPJ on the floor at the same time is going to be rough defensively.


Jokic is hard to move, but that's not the point. He's easy to move by. Plus he doesn't really rim protect. The Jazz are going to put him and MPJ in pick-and-roll over and over and force them to make quick defensive decisions that they're not prepared to make. Will Barton may be an average defender, but MPJ has looked clueless on defense so far. Jamal Murray typically plays defense for 5 - 10 seconds per possession. Maybe he'll be more motivated in the playoffs.

The Jazz now take 50%+ of their shots as 3s. Now that they're smaller, they've morphed into an offense like Houston or Dallas. Denver might be the worst team in the league at guarding the 3pt shot. The Jazz may lose this series, but they wanted this matchup because they know they'll get their shots off against Denver. Whereas, that's not been the case with Houston.

Losing Mike Conley right at the start of the series is a bit of a buzzkill for Utah though.
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Re: Round 1, Game 1: Utah Jazz @ Denver Nuggets 

Post#31 » by nedleeds » Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:16 pm

Without Conley it's going to be tough if only because the backup options are really bad. Every Mudiay minute is points just draining off or being given up. Jazz have one huge advantage and that's coaching. Malone is one of the worst coaches in the playoffs and Snyder is pretty good. The Nuggets have MPJ playing thankfully, but only because a COVID outbreak and injuries forced Malone's hand -- otherwise it'd still be the Plumlee and Harris show.
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Re: Round 1, Game 1: Utah Jazz @ Denver Nuggets 

Post#32 » by NuggetsWY » Sun Aug 16, 2020 8:06 pm

Catchall wrote:
NuggetsWY wrote:
Catchall wrote:The big question hanging over Denver is the state of their defense. The Nuggets gave up an average of 123 ppg during their bubble games. Murray, Jokic and MPJ on the floor at the same time is going to be rough defensively.

Defense? :confused: Defense? :pray: Defense? :meditate: I knew I forgot something. :lol:

I noticed someone over here talking about Denver missing Barton on defense: probably not. His defense amounts to occasional spectacular plays interspersed with a few decent plays and a lot of watching the back of someone heading toward the basket. :banghead:

Jokic & Murray are both better than they are given credit for. Jokic is hard to move, has great hands, and is usually in a decent slot - for paint & one-on-one. Like most bigs, he's vulnerable in pick-n-rolls -- Gobert not as vulnerable but even he isn't staying in front of players like Murray. That's a team deal. --- Murray's not great but his head is usually on a swivel and he'll get physical if a big posts up on him.

Plumlee, Grant, Millsap all tend to be at least acceptable. Craig isn't as great as his reputation, but he's still quite good.

Porter tries hard but has a lot to learn.

Denver's biggest defensive problem is what some term; "Help the Helper". First rotation can be decent, but after that ...

So you are exactly correct - because all of that was true and became worse in the bubble.
Catchall wrote:The big question hanging over Denver is the state of their defense. The Nuggets gave up an average of 123 ppg during their bubble games. Murray, Jokic and MPJ on the floor at the same time is going to be rough defensively.


Jokic is hard to move, but that's not the point. He's easy to move by. Plus he doesn't really rim protect. The Jazz are going to put him and MPJ in pick-and-roll over and over and force them to make quick defensive decisions that they're not prepared to make. Will Barton may be an average defender, but MPJ has looked clueless on defense so far. Jamal Murray typically plays defense for 5 - 10 seconds per possession. Maybe he'll be more motivated in the playoffs.

The Jazz now take 50%+ of their shots as 3s. Now that they're smaller, they've morphed into an offense like Houston or Dallas. Denver might be the worst team in the league at guarding the 3pt shot. The Jazz may lose this series, but they wanted this matchup because they know they'll get their shots off against Denver. Whereas, that's not been the case with Houston.

Losing Mike Conley right at the start of the series is a bit of a buzzkill for Utah though.

"Not a rim protector" - we hear that all the time. But then again, Jokic's offense isn't normal for a center either. Gobert averages 2 blocked shots per game and Jokic about 1/4 of that. Gobert's real impact is in the intimidation factor - he might block. The top players on most teams, players like Mitchell, they aren't intimidated by that. They see it as a challenge. His impact is on the role players. Jokic's "rim protection" is that he likes to get between the player and the basket, making it hard for them to get there. Look at advanced metrics (not my expertise) and see points-against-in-the-paint. He's exceptional.

If I were the Jazz, I would put Jokic in the pick-n-roll constantly. Of course that is what everyone does. (With the modern rules, I'd put my best ball handler in a pick-n-roll with the other teams least mobile big and I'd do it constantly. Think Stockton-and-Malone.)

If I were the Jazz, I'd tell my three-point shooters to make a pump fake and let the defender fly by. The Nuggets do that a lot. Then they get a relatively open shot. Am I sharing secrets? Nope, all the teams already know all of this.
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Re: Round 1, Game 1: Utah Jazz @ Denver Nuggets 

Post#33 » by KqWIN » Sun Aug 16, 2020 8:29 pm

It's going to be really tough without Conley. We're down to 4 decent players.
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Re: Round 1, Game 1: Utah Jazz @ Denver Nuggets 

Post#34 » by KqWIN » Sun Aug 16, 2020 8:33 pm

NuggetsWY wrote:
Catchall wrote:The big question hanging over Denver is the state of their defense. The Nuggets gave up an average of 123 ppg during their bubble games. Murray, Jokic and MPJ on the floor at the same time is going to be rough defensively.

Defense? :confused: Defense? :pray: Defense? :meditate: I knew I forgot something. :lol:

I noticed someone over here talking about Denver missing Barton on defense: probably not. His defense amounts to occasional spectacular plays interspersed with a few decent plays and a lot of watching the back of someone heading toward the basket. :banghead:

Jokic & Murray are both better than they are given credit for. Jokic is hard to move, has great hands, and is usually in a decent slot - for paint & one-on-one. Like most bigs, he's vulnerable in pick-n-rolls -- Gobert not as vulnerable but even he isn't staying in front of players like Murray. That's a team deal. --- Murray's not great but his head is usually on a swivel and he'll get physical if a big posts up on him.

Plumlee, Grant, Millsap all tend to be at least acceptable. Craig isn't as great as his reputation, but he's still quite good.

Porter tries hard but has a lot to learn.

Denver's biggest defensive problem is what some term; "Help the Helper". First rotation can be decent, but after that ...

So you are exactly correct - because all of that was true and became worse in the bubble.
Catchall wrote:The big question hanging over Denver is the state of their defense. The Nuggets gave up an average of 123 ppg during their bubble games. Murray, Jokic and MPJ on the floor at the same time is going to be rough defensively.


This is why the Jazz offense (in theory) is designed to beat the Nuggets defense. Quin's offense is all about spreading the defense out, gaining an advantage, and snowballing that advantage as the defense has to scramble and make multiple rotations. I'm just not sure the Jazz can execute well enough. The Jazz have had a real issue with their ball handlers taking the first shot available instead of continuing the offense for a better shot. The instant the our guys get daylight to take a mid range or floater crap they'll pounce.
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Re: Round 1, Game 1: Utah Jazz @ Denver Nuggets 

Post#35 » by skywalker33 » Sun Aug 16, 2020 8:37 pm

Catchall wrote:
NuggetsWY wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
Denver is deep, and if Barton is back, they will be tough. MPJ has been fantastic, Jokic is obviously amazing, and they also have Murray. If I had to rate players

Jokic>Gobert
Murray<Mitchell
MPJ>Conley
Barton = Ingles
Grant<O'neale
Plumlee>Bradley
Morris<Clarkson
Millsap>Niang
Craig>Brantley

If Harris comes back, that's where they really start to get separation from us.

If someone from the "evil kingdom" may comment on the player comparisons. I mostly agree with babyjax13:

Jokic>Gobert
Murray<Mitchell
MPJ>Conley
Barton = Ingles --- not sure Barton will be back and I'd rank Ingles better overall (Barton on offense though)
Grant<O'neale --- I think I might rank these two even - but O'neale seems more consistent so maybe not
Plumlee>Bradley
Morris<Clarkson
Millsap>Niang
Craig>Brantley

Here's the deal, in my opinion: The Jazz game is all about team play, especially on offense. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts. Both teams are missing key players: Harris, Barton --- Conley, Bogdanovic. As much as Denver misses their guys, I think the impact on Utah is greater.

I've said I expect Denver to win in five and hope it doesn't go six. Yes, I believe Utah could win. No, I do not believe it will happen.


The big question hanging over Denver is the state of their defense. The Nuggets gave up an average of 123 ppg during their bubble games. They were worse than the Wizards, Kings and depleted Nets. Murray, Jokic and MPJ on the floor at the same time is going to be rough defensively.


Scoring was up all over the bubble, how many games didn’t reach triple digits ? We’ll be fine, realistically if we shut down Mitchell, you’ll only be scoring in double digits especially with Conley dropping out too.
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Re: Round 1, Game 1: Utah Jazz @ Denver Nuggets 

Post#36 » by red4hf » Sun Aug 16, 2020 9:26 pm

Congrats to Conley, but damn this sucks a little bit..... Bench really needs to step up, but I have little faith in that.......
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Re: Round 1, Game 1: Utah Jazz @ Denver Nuggets 

Post#37 » by KqWIN » Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:34 pm

Think that Niang will get the start...but one of the others is going to have to play (Mudiay, Oni, Tucker, Brantley).
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Re: Round 1, Game 1: Utah Jazz @ Denver Nuggets 

Post#38 » by tugs » Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:11 am

Dropped by to see any updates on the line up with Mike's departure. Should Utah go small and slide Royce to the 4, insert a stretch big in Niang, or go old school with Bradley or utilize Davis as a starter?

Thinking the starting lineup should have active bigs capable of defending the rim. Donovan and Joe are clever enough to play the PnR to generate offense for the bigs
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Re: Round 1, Game 1: Utah Jazz @ Denver Nuggets 

Post#39 » by tugs » Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:50 am

Just in: Ed Davis is out due to MCL injury
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Re: Round 1, Game 1: Utah Jazz @ Denver Nuggets 

Post#40 » by skywalker33 » Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:14 am

Not a Utah nor Nuggets support site, more independent but does have some good points.

https://clutchpoints.com/3-reasons-denver-will-beat-utah-2020-nba-playoffs/
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