Thoughts on the Season + What's Next

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Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#1 » by Inigo Montoya » Wed Sep 2, 2020 9:43 am

I'll chime in a bit later about what I think of this season and what I think the Jazz should do, but this is the place to share your thoughts about what we've seen this season from the Jazz, where they stand, and what the future holds.
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#2 » by stitches » Wed Sep 2, 2020 10:44 am

First thing I do - I offer Mitchell 5max. If he doesn't accept, ask him if he would accept any other offer and if he wants something like a 3 year deal I sign him to it and immediately start listening to trade offers for him(not actively searching for trades, but actively listening).

Second thing I do - figure out what the max would be that I would like to pay Gobert and offer something in that range to him. If he doesn't accept, immediately begin search for trade partner.

If none of them want to stay for what I offer them, start selling off the whole team. Ingles, Bogdanovic, Conley... all of them ... rebuild.

If Mitchell takes the 5max but Rudy doesn't take what I offer, trade Rudy either for high draft picks or win now pieces in the timeline of Mitchel. If we trade Rudy, I might actually do Conley for Horford. Or take Favors back. Or look for a trade for Gobert that includes a young-ish center in the timeline of Mitchell(Turner? Allen? Wendel Carter?)

If Rudy takes whatever offer we make but Mitchell doesn't - keep the team with hope for one more run next year... while listening to the market for Mitchell... If you love an offer take it and try to retool around Gobert for as long as we can be competitive... then... rebuild...

If both want to stay and seem like they want to work together, keep them and try to retool around them... find a longer and/or more athletic wing.
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#3 » by sipclip » Wed Sep 2, 2020 2:38 pm

If I'm the jazz I'm on the phone right now with the bulls talking about 2 of Markkanen, Wendell Carter and the 4th pick in some type of package for Gobert. After that I'm on the phone with the knicks to see if they have any interest in Conley to provide vet leadership. My thinking is that I would like to get a 1 year look at Portis and Dennis Smith JR.
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#4 » by GobertReport » Wed Sep 2, 2020 2:50 pm

If I’m the Jazz I rip off the bandaid and see you if you can get Warren and Turner from Indi for Gobert. Trade Mike for hopefully broken down contracts for depth and see if a team has cap for Joe.
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#5 » by KqWIN » Wed Sep 2, 2020 3:37 pm

I think this team is pretty talented, especially if Bojan is healthy, but in order for this team to advance further in the playoffs everything needs to be clicking and that couldn't be further from the truth with this team. I don't think Quin has a great handle on this team/locker room. Maybe he is a basketball genius, I'm starting to thing he's just above average in that area, but even if he was it has no effect if the team doesn't follow. Seriously, how often to you have a team that openly admits that they aren't focused on winning?

But maybe that's an impossible task for any coach. Gobert and Mitchell are poor (basketball) leaders. Gobert is a really great player. I think we've been a top heavy team for awhile, and he is the top heavy. Despite Mitchell's heroics, I think Gobert is still the best player on the team by a mile. But when so much of your success is geared towards one player, you can't have that player's effort wax and wane. Especially when his game is predicated on being engaged. There needs to be a better leader on this team. I don't know if that can be Mitchell because he's such a selfish basketball player.

The Jazz have to have a culture shift. This team isn't going to succeed another way. We need to be a Toronto or Miami where everything around the margins improves because their cultures are so strong.

I think the worst possible route to go is to turn into a 35~ win team for the next couple of years before Mitchell demands to get traded. Being bad and/or tanking isn't a power position. People love the draft and watching young players develop...I can't blame them. That's one of the most entertaining parts of basketball. But I really think people conflate their enjoyment with draft/development with smart team building. The Jazz have to be great at executing on the margins. That's how almost every team good team is good...including the Jazz btw. There really aren't many good teams that are good because they tanked.

Unfortunately DL has given himself very little room to work with. We blew our wad on Conley. Obviously we traded a ton for him, but we also committed heavily to Conley because of our cap situation. If we let Conley walk, we can't replace him with cap space. We are already capped out because Gobert and Mitchell are due for pay raises. From this point on, we have to resign our players with bird rights or else our cap number drops and it gets even more difficult to win. Whether you like Conley or not, we either have to trade him now or resign him. Same idea with Clarkson this offseason. We have to resign him.
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#6 » by stitches » Wed Sep 2, 2020 3:48 pm

Here's a question. Some peolpe here describe the Conley trade as the worst trade of the decade in the NBA(and Im not that far from agreeing with it)... DL got the time and chance to build up that team and had a several playoff runs with a couple different iterations of that team, but he never managed to build good enough roster to be true contender. So the question here is ... if we are going to go into a rebuild, do we want DL leading that rebuild or do we want someone else? I don't think this is an easy question to answer. I don't think DL has done a bad job with this team(and there are plenty worse GMs in the league), but when the time came for him to put the finishing touches on this roster he miserably failed. Conley has been atrocious trade, Ed Davis, Jeff Green and Mudiay were zeros for this team when playoff time came...
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#7 » by SoCalJazzFan » Wed Sep 2, 2020 4:58 pm

Question- can Mitchell be the on ball PG full time starting next year, or does he need an on ball or at least combo guard running mate?

If he can be effective as the on ball guard full time, and if the Jazz can trade Conley and/or pick up a decent forward with some size and athleticism and upgrade the backup big position, a Mitchell, Royce, Bogey, new F, and Gobert starting 5 is pretty darn good and balanced. If they can improve their depth, then as a team they are pretty darn good. However, I am not sure how much can be realistically done this off-season, and with Bogey in the playoffs next year and hopefully some better integration of Conley, they are a second round team which maybe puts up a fight with the overall #1 or #2 team in the West. Not horrible, really, all things considered.
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#8 » by SoCalJazzFan » Wed Sep 2, 2020 5:05 pm

stitches wrote:Here's a question. Some peolpe here describe the Conley trade as the worst trade of the decade in the NBA(and Im not that far from agreeing with it)... DL got the time and chance to build up that team and had a several playoff runs with a couple different iterations of that team, but he never managed to build good enough roster to be true contender. So the question here is ... if we are going to go into a rebuild, do we want DL leading that rebuild or do we want someone else? I don't think this is an easy question to answer. I don't think DL has done a bad job with this team(and there are plenty worse GMs in the league), but when the time came for him to put the finishing touches on this roster he miserably failed. Conley has been atrocious trade, Ed Davis, Jeff Green and Mudiay were zeros for this team when playoff time came...


Last season it was super clear that even though Rubio was super likeable and played hard, he wasn't a good fit due to his shooting shortcomings. It was obvious that the Jazz needed better shooting around Rudy. DL went out and got that with Bogey and Conley. While there was a lot of discussion about whether Conley was too old or too small to pair with DM, I think that everyone thought he would fit in and play better than he did.

In retrospect, with 20/20 vision, getting CP3 would have been the much better move in that the Jazz could have potentially got him in a 3-way with OKC and Houston and received assets on top of it, but I don't think anyone at the time would have expected CP3 to be a better player or fit than Conley for the Jazz. Of course, the financial timeline also favors Conley.

The acquisition of Conley was a big swing (which the Jazz rarely do to the consternation of many of us), but unfortunately so far a miss, which has impacted the depth of the team more than anything, IMO.

I'm ok with it. I think we are all cranky after a playoff series the Jazz should have won, which is coloring our thoughts right now.
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#9 » by stitches » Wed Sep 2, 2020 5:29 pm

SoCalJazzFan wrote:Question- can Mitchell be the on ball PG full time starting next year, or does he need an on ball or at least combo guard running mate?

If he can be effective as the on ball guard full time, and if the Jazz can trade Conley and/or pick up a decent forward with some size and athleticism and upgrade the backup big position, a Mitchell, Royce, Bogey, new F, and Gobert starting 5 is pretty darn good and balanced. If they can improve their depth, then as a team they are pretty darn good. However, I am not sure how much can be realistically done this off-season, and with Bogey in the playoffs next year and hopefully some better integration of Conley, they are a second round team which maybe puts up a fight with the overall #1 or #2 team in the West. Not horrible, really, all things considered.

I think this NEEDS to happen ASAP. The moment we lose Conley, I don't want us talking about getting another PG. We don't need more PGs. And I don't want to pigeonhole Mitchell into the PG role, the new NBA is very different to what we are used to from the 90s. It's more about who handles the ball and initiates the offense, who runs the PnRs, who runs handoffs, etc... it's more about fulfilling a role and in this system it's usually more than 1 player that is relied to initiate the offense. I'm good with that and if it happens to shift more of that initiator role toward Mitchell - great.

We need to add size and athleticism to that team. I don't think Bogdanovic is a 3 in the modern NBA. I don't think at his age he will be able to guard well enough wings in the playoffs. We need a 2-3 with athleticism and length and some defensive chops to balance the team a bit. What we are asking Gobert to do right now is not fair to him. There are so many below par defenders on this team that it's kind of amazing how good this team was defensively before Rudy started checking out.
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#10 » by GobertReport » Wed Sep 2, 2020 6:54 pm

What the Jazz need to do this off season is what they should have done instead is signing Conley, get a sweet shooting 4 who can play decent D. I think we need to hit up the Knicks or Orlando this off season.
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#11 » by KqWIN » Wed Sep 2, 2020 7:38 pm

stitches wrote:
SoCalJazzFan wrote:Question- can Mitchell be the on ball PG full time starting next year, or does he need an on ball or at least combo guard running mate?

If he can be effective as the on ball guard full time, and if the Jazz can trade Conley and/or pick up a decent forward with some size and athleticism and upgrade the backup big position, a Mitchell, Royce, Bogey, new F, and Gobert starting 5 is pretty darn good and balanced. If they can improve their depth, then as a team they are pretty darn good. However, I am not sure how much can be realistically done this off-season, and with Bogey in the playoffs next year and hopefully some better integration of Conley, they are a second round team which maybe puts up a fight with the overall #1 or #2 team in the West. Not horrible, really, all things considered.

I think this NEEDS to happen ASAP. The moment we lose Conley, I don't want us talking about getting another PG. We don't need more PGs. And I don't want to pigeonhole Mitchell into the PG role, the new NBA is very different to what we are used to from the 90s. It's more about who handles the ball and initiates the offense, who runs the PnRs, who runs handoffs, etc... it's more about fulfilling a role and in this system it's usually more than 1 player that is relied to initiate the offense. I'm good with that and if it happens to shift more of that initiator role toward Mitchell - great.

We need to add size and athleticism to that team. I don't think Bogdanovic is a 3 in the modern NBA. I don't think at his age he will be able to guard well enough wings in the playoffs. We need a 2-3 with athleticism and length and some defensive chops to balance the team a bit. What we are asking Gobert to do right now is not fair to him. There are so many below par defenders on this team that it's kind of amazing how good this team was defensively before Rudy started checking out.


I agree. Positions don't mean anything. We don't need is another player smaller than Mitchell or someone who needs the ball a lot. In general I think we're lacking athleticism on the wing. This is why Aaron Gordon still interests me. ORL has had him develop into a Rudy Gay wannabe and has picked up some bad tendencies...but he can still be the type of player we need. We could trade for him using different players too. Bogey/Joe or maybe Conley for Fournier+Gordon. We'd have to even up the trade values somehow...I don't really know what Gordon is valued at these days...but that's a move I'd like to see.
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#12 » by FJS » Wed Sep 2, 2020 7:39 pm

I would try to sign Favors if he accept to be Gobert back up and to play vs teams like Lakers or other teams with more powerful PFs. When Gobert it's sitting down, our deffense sucks, and Gobert is not playing 100% because probably knows there's anybody to eat his minutes. And it's a injury insurance over Rudy.
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#13 » by red4hf » Wed Sep 2, 2020 9:54 pm

GobertReport wrote:What the Jazz need to do this off season is what they should have done instead is signing Conley, get a sweet shooting 4 who can play decent D. I think we need to hit up the Knicks or Orlando this off season.


Who on the Knicks or Magic fits that bill?
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#14 » by KqWIN » Wed Sep 2, 2020 10:55 pm

I probably didn’t appreciate Favors enough when he was here...but same kind of logic remains as far as signing him again. We have one MLE to give to a quality player. Are we going to make that player our backup C if our best player is a already a C?
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#15 » by red4hf » Wed Sep 2, 2020 11:19 pm

I love Favors, probably my all time favorite Jazz player...... But he makes no sense for us, unless he comes for the minimum.......
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#16 » by Cappsy11 » Wed Sep 2, 2020 11:50 pm

Okay here is what i would do hear me out as i think this may work.

1. Sign Mitchell to his Max .. he is a bona fide star.
2. Hear me out on this one. Conley talk him out of his last year of his contract and resign him for 2 years @ $46M. He still gets his $34M last year of his contract but gets $12M which is what he would receive after this contract and space it over 2 years . It saves the Jazz 12M next year to help spending money on the bench. Conley is not the problem here and apart from Game 7 was good in the playoffs and the bubble
4. Re-sign Clarkson for around 12M to 15M. So important if they re-sign here and feeling he likes in Utah
5. Sign Favors and see if can re-sign with New Orleans and sign and trade if they would take Davis and a 2nd rounder
6. Ingles and O'neale.. I lost patience with these 2 especially O'neale and should be allocate to sure up the bench. Not one of these players should be starting and for 2 good shooters need to find their shots in the bench unit. I dont believe anyone would trade for these unless their packages in getting another big star.
7. Bench - The only ones i would bring back next year .. Tucker ( even though we could use the cap space) , Morgan and maybe Niang.. the rest i am not sold on.. Maybe Oni as well.

That makes our side C: Gorbert PF ? SF:Boggey SG:Mitchell PG: Conley .... Bench: Clarkson Favors, Morgan , Tucker, Ingles, Oneale, Niang, Oni Rookie Pick

What we need>> I would love the Jazz to get a shooting PF.. M Williams at the Bucks, Milsap or Grant ( if not resigned but Nuggs and at what cost), Jabri Parker if the kings would trade him, Bertrans ( at what cost) or anyone else. Of course this depends of if we can trade with some of our pieces like a Tobias Harris, Horford , Love or any other forward or superstar. Mitchell , Clarkson, Gorbert and Bogey dont trade at all.

My thoughts.. Deep and good side in the making but some changes are needed. The coach needs to make the biggest change as his decisions in this series i thought was ordinary and doesn't react quicker enough to issues. Needs a good look at himself if he is the coach to move forward with. Overall a ok year but could of been better.
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#17 » by GobertReport » Thu Sep 3, 2020 2:32 am

red4hf wrote:
GobertReport wrote:What the Jazz need to do this off season is what they should have done instead is signing Conley, get a sweet shooting 4 who can play decent D. I think we need to hit up the Knicks or Orlando this off season.


Who on the Knicks or Magic fits that bill?


Randle from the Knicks. A A Ron from the Magic.
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#18 » by Catchall » Thu Sep 3, 2020 3:06 am

1. Give Mitchell his 5-year max. Make him the primary ball handler going forward. He's ready.

2. See if Gobert can be traded for picks #1 and #17 in a three-team deal involving Minnesota. The third team would give an All Star-caliber player to Minny and receive Gobert. If the answer is yes, then draft James Wiseman to replace Gobert, and draft one of Patrick Williams, Aleksej Pokusevski, or Aaron Nesmith at #17. If the answer is no, then nevermind. I'd likely just keep Gobert in that circumstance. Maybe there's a deal to be had with Chicago that could bring back Okongwu/Markkanen, but if I'm giving up Gobert, I'd rather have Wiseman--not because he's bigger than Okongwu, but because he can dribble and shoot. I think Wiseman is the next Embiid without the injuries and attitude, and he's less than half the cost of Gobert going forward.

3. Trade Conley to the Knicks for Portis and Harkless. See if NY will add at least their 2nd RP. I actually think the Knicks would do this. Portis becomes our backup 5, and Harkless becomes our backup 4. Getting Conley for Portis and Harkless would be seen as a win in NY. If you'd prefer to keep Conley or try to trade him for Otto Porter, then fine.

4. Draft Bolmaro at #23. He's a wing with adequate size, athleticism and defense who can play on and off the ball. In a year, he can replace Joe Ingles in our rotation as a secondary initiator. Tyrell Terry is another guy to look at here, if he's available.

5. If NY gives us their 2nd-round pick (#38), draft Elijah Hughes or Paul Reed.

6. Trade one of our young players--Tucker or JWF--plus a future 2RP for a late 2nd-rd pick to draft Nate Hinton, Jalen Harris, Sam Merrill or Killian Tillie.

7. Re-sign Clarkson.

8. Dump Ed Davis in any trade.
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#19 » by Catchall » Thu Sep 3, 2020 3:15 am

Part of the problem with the upcoming season is that no one knows when it's going to start. Guys were apparently going bat **** in the bubble in Orlando, and there's no way to play a full season in a bubble environment. With next season potentially being screwed up, we can down-shift, add solid young talent, and re-tool around Mitchell.

There might also not be a G-league this year, meaning the young guys would need to play with the varsity squad.
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#20 » by GobertReport » Thu Sep 3, 2020 3:17 am

First trade: Joe Ingles to the Heat for a 2021 1st and a 2nd.

Second trade: Mike Conley for Bobby Portis and a protected 1st. Lotto first 2 years, Top 7 for two years, top 3 1 year, and conveys as 2 2nds.

Jazz trade Ed Davis and the Miami pick to Memphis for Justice Winslow

Jazz trade 2020 picked player, Niang, and filler to Magic for Ross or Fournier.
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